Notifications
Clear all

What will help you decide to participate in FT matches? Ideas?  

  RSS

Dave Cole
(@airgunsoftulsa)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 80
April 16, 2020 13:52:05  

 

What I am wanting to do in this post, is seek ideas on what would make you feel comfortable to return to shooting at a organized match.

So I'm going to throw this out there and maybe some match organizers/directors can design some guidelines you the participants would be comfortable with in returning to shooting. I know for myself, I'm going to have questions about who, what, how and when the matches will take place going forward.  

When we do get back to holding matches, what will they look like?

Will a whistle blow and the all clear be given? Everyone just goes back to shooting like it’s 2019?

Who will make the decision and be responsible to hold a match and how will it be held?

Will the match have personal space guidelines?

What will those be?

Will you go?

Will AAFTA develop requirements and guidelines for their sanctioned events?

Maybe we should just wait a year to go back or wait for a vaccine?

What will make you decide?

What, if anything, are your clubs doing in preparation to holding matches again?

IMHO, FT matches for the most part, are a segment of air gun competition where social distancing is the greatest.

In hopes of returning to FT matches ASAP, I’ve been trying to come up with ideas aimed at guidelines for holding matches. Please feel free to contribute suggestions around making these events safe for everyone.

Without a doubt, the Covid-19 pandemic has changed how we will gather, congregate and participate in any activity we elect to do in the foreseeable future.  

Of course, all federal, state and local guidelines must be meet. (i.e. gathering size restrictions.)

These are a few things I would like to see implemented at FT matches where I’d be more comfortable participating.

Thoughts and ideas around these steps.

All participants and spectators must wear a suitable mask when inside a pre-determined perimeter.  

Gloves – This is a gray area. CDC has recommendations but does encourage you wear them. Regardless of whether you touch something with your fingers, glove or no glove, you can still transmit.  However, if you feel compelled you should do so.

Mask – should cover mouth and nose and be worn at all times and before entering perimeter.

Payment for participating should be done electronically. This is to eliminate the possibility of transmitting via paper money, checks, etc.

Safety meeting will be held in an area that is open with recommended personal space.

Have a suitable anti-bacterial wipe/solution at all stations or require each shooter who might encounter the equipment provide such.

Personal equipment should be wiped down with suitable anti-bacterial before and after match.

Score card can be emailed to participants and participants can provide pencil/pen and writing surface (i.e. clipboard)

Lunches/meals/drinks/snacks will be not be provided and should be brought by participants.

 

On the more extreme side of participating, rather than have a “team” at a station, have a single shooter and scoring on the honor system but this could cause the match to run much longer than desired depending on the number of participants.  However, the score keeper could stand back away from the shooter at the recommended six-foot distance until its’ their time to shoot.

And of course, if you still don’t feel comfortable with participating at a match, please, by all means, please stay home. We don’t want anyone becoming infected.

Thanks!


DRAGON64 thanked
Quote
doninva
(@doninva)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 185
April 16, 2020 14:48:55  

Have been home for a month(retired). Only go out to pickup groceries. If I have to wear gloves and a mask, will just shoot on my 35 target range. As Will P. did a couple weeks ago. Bring exact change and put in container, stay 6 foot apart, no awards, be aware and have fun. JMHO, Don


ReplyQuote
DonC
 DonC
(@donc)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 154
April 16, 2020 18:25:46  

Best to wait till it's obvious competitors are safe. Hopefully not too long. I'm hoping for August, but that's just a guess.


ReplyQuote
Bob D.
(@bob-d)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 35
April 23, 2020 08:03:21  

Dave, you bring up several new points to think about, especially about handling range equipment, like string resets, etc. and handling entry fees, spacing at safety meetings, too.

FT lanes are usually separated by several yards, and squads of two are usually separated by at least 6 feet (more like 8-12') when in shooting positions (one person at the line, and scorekeeper well behind).

That said, our game caters to more senior participants, many with additional health concerns.  

Workers are complaining about returning to normal so they can go back to work.  I guess that's normal.  But going back to work might be just a temporary thing if customers continue to shelter and don't show up.  This will be similar for our game, which is far from an "essential service."  We will never be able to tell, but I would hate to think that anyone could catch this virus at  our venue in Dallas, or anywhere else.

Health officials are just now thinking ahead to a possible "second wave" of Covid when the weather cools in the Fall, just in time for the National Match in October.   I know this will pass at some point, but when is anyone's guess.


ReplyQuote
DAS
 DAS
(@das)
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 18
April 23, 2020 09:02:26  

I would participate now if there were any matches in my area. I am not going to change my life or try to live in a bubble. My body has a choice... Sink or Swim. Hiding is not an option. 


DRAGON64 and MarineO6 thanked
ReplyQuote
MarineO6
(@marineo6)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 73
April 23, 2020 18:08:27  
Posted by: @das

I would participate now if there were any matches in my area. I am not going to change my life or try to live in a bubble. My body has a choice... Sink or Swim. Hiding is not an option. 

Amen. Understand staying away if someone has a condition that would be exacerbated by CV, but many of the rest of us will have to deal with this eventually, and hiding out probably won’t be too helpful in the long run.

Think Masque of the Red Death. Of course that didn’t end so well for Prospero. But he wasn’t a FT shooter AFAIK.


ReplyQuote
KWK
 KWK
(@kwk)
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 95
April 24, 2020 12:18:34  
Posted by: @das

I would participate now if there were any matches in my area. I am not going to change my life or try to live in a bubble. My body has a choice... Sink or Swim. Hiding is not an option. 

Thank you! We need more Americans like you guys. I'm 60 and healthy. Want to come over and pass football with me and the kids? Let's run with the big dogs. I'm not afraid of the media frenzy Wuhan. Sweden isn't locking down. They're asking for PERSONAL responsibility. They learned from the rest of the world's experiences. And failures. 


DRAGON64 and MarineO6 thanked
ReplyQuote
phepler
(@deadeye)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 140
April 24, 2020 14:13:20  

New data suggest sunlight is a great disinfectant. Bring on the Field Target!

Seriously though, we are outside and generally separated. One idea for local matches is for everyone to take a lane individually and score yourself. This also helps the match move quickly. 

I am personally not afraid of the virus at all. But I am 46 and healthy. At the same time I do not want to give pass it to anyone who it could hurt, so I wear a mask when I'm out, etc. But I think a FT match would be safer than going to my local Walmart. 

If there was a local match this weekend, I would be there.

Just my opinion.


wjwillia thanked
ReplyQuote
DAS
 DAS
(@das)
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 18
April 24, 2020 18:53:25  

I am not trying to sound like a tough guy or a jerk. My parents are in their 70's.  People do need to take precautions but when you see every golf course in Florida open.... Why not the ranges? It seems silly how people pick and choose some times. 


ReplyQuote
Wayne Burns
(@wayne-burns)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 142
April 26, 2020 22:10:31  

Good Thread Dave, this is a conversation that needs to begin...

I guess many of you are wondering about the AAFTA 2020 Nationals.  I'm watching and waiting... and thinking of ways a limited Nationals might happen.  I haven't heard anything from the BoG so maybe they are waiting to see what might happen and are also looking for ideas on a format that might allow us to proceed on a limited basis.

From what I hear we will be social distancing for a few years, not months.  The lack of testing has forced us into the "herd immunity"  method of getting thru this.. the "strong survive" is natures way and it seems, it's the political choice we've made as well...  things will probably open up soon, although the forecast is for a second round, especially if things are opened up now, like some states are doing.  By fall it could be much worse and a second more stringent shut down could happen... so again. I'm watching and will try to make a final decision (with AAFTA's approval), 60 days beforehand.

I also manage an online business, naturalyards.com that makes garden bed kits and we are overwhelmed with orders.  Lots of folks gardening instead of traveling I guess.. We are lucky here in Southern Oregon to be in a low infection area.  Our mill is able to maintain distance between the work stations and workers all wear gloves and masks.  We clean with bleach solutions often on places workers all touch.   I'm looking into using some of the same systems to host limited matches... and possibly the Nationals.

Lanes can be kept separate enough. I would want a scorer/partner well behind, (8'ish)...   I can't see how "self scoring" would qualify for a Nationals match... each shooter would have a score card and keep the partners score, so no need to hand back and forth.  Score cards would be sprayed down with bleach solution when turned in.

More than likely half the folks would not want to risk attending, especially if they have to fly.  I would think the best way would be to own or rent an RV, purify it, drive it and stay in it, cooking your own food. 

I don't know if there is a min number of competitors for a Nationals Match.. the min for a GP match is 15 on both days I believe.  I would need AAFTA to adjust the $3,000 min payment for the hosting club from auction proceeds.  If that can happen, then I would consider still hosting a limited match if we can work out a plan that is safe and legal at the time.

Half the normal competitors is all that is probably safe anyway.

Food and drinks is for sure an issue to be worked out and I don't have ideas on that as yet..

I like the electronic only payment idea... our website is already for that anyway.  That would also help with the limited attendance we would more than likely require.

The Morro Bay site is nice and open, so it's easy to keep our distances and still hear me give the shooters safety meeting.  There is plenty of room to spread out on the site in line as well if we break into groups of 20 or less at a time.  There is also a great elevated booth for a safety official to watch over the distancing on the site in line and time spent there.

 

so.. what other problems do we need to solve first.. and how many are interested if we can solve them and work out a safe plan?

Wayne Burns,

Match Director,

AAFTA 2020 National FT Championships

 

 

 


ReplyQuote
DonC
 DonC
(@donc)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 154
April 28, 2020 14:58:58  

Wayne,

Thanks for all your efforts.

I remember when I went to the World Championship hosted by MAFTA, Ron Carlson had a guy in a golf cart deliver a catered sack lunch and drink to competitors while they were at the lanes. It seemed to work just fine. 

If guys are concerned about touching the reset string they can bring germ killing wipes and use them throughout the competition.

Golf courses in Illinois open on Friday. Seems like Field Target could also open.


ReplyQuote
Wayne Burns
(@wayne-burns)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 142
April 28, 2020 21:06:52  

Hi Don,

I was thinking maybe the competitors could wear latex gloves on their not trigger hand to reset the targets and whatever else they need to touch.  Cleanings stations would for sure be available.  I've been using latex gloves when I go out shopping and touch things, when I get home or in the car, I wipe down the outside of the gloves with disinfectant before I take them off, so I can pull the second one off with my bare hand and they are also ready for the next use instead of throwing them away.

Our local firearm rifle range is open also for individuals, but not sub clubs matches.

At our course at our own ranch, we are setting up spinners and bell targets with our shooting lanes at least 10' apart.  Two shooters per squad only, like said above, each shooter keeps his squad partners score card and no need to pass one back and forth.   The scoring partner is at least 6' behind the shooter. The scoring partner will have to be a lot more attentive.... although the spinners we have been testing for this project swing for a few seconds, so if the scorer is distracted by a naked body or something, the shooter can yell "hit it" and the scorer can still look back and see it swinging hopefully. Please know, I will endeavor to keep all naked bodies out of site at our matches:-) .. and of course no other reason would be acceptable for a score to be distracted from his/her scoring duties.  A point might be deducted from the scorer for lack of attention.

I don't know if AAFTA could approve such a course of targets for this special Nationals, but maybe they will consider it.

Anyway, we will test it with small groups spread out on our test course here in Ashland over the next couple months and report back.

 

Blessings on us all my friends!!

Wayne

 


ReplyQuote
Kidpellet
(@kidpellet)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 45
April 28, 2020 21:41:06  

Well it stinks but I've been working this whole time and traveling from my home in north Mississippi to northwest Florida for work.

So far so good however, I'm not going to take the chance that I could cause harm to any one of you.

It would be great to see you all again and i mean that, but I think I'm going to sit this year out unless things really seem to turn around.

 

Ray Barnett


ReplyQuote
thomasair
(@thomasair)
Member of Trade
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 25
April 28, 2020 21:57:23  

Wayne, it’s important to understand how the virus is acquired.  Gloves do nothing helpful for you since you can’t get the virus by touching it...and gloves don’t prevent you from doing things that could, in fact, transfer the virus to your respiratory system....like rubbing your nose.  Learn to keep your hands off your face...and simply wash your hands so when you forget to keep them off your face you are not transferring anything.  

Mike 


ReplyQuote
dan_house
(@dan_house)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 84
May 1, 2020 11:11:14  

My decisions to attend an FT match in 2020 aren't health related at this point.

It's economic. The virus cut my family income by at least half, and likely closer to to 2/3's. And still paying dr. bills from the retina surgery in September '19.

So Im bummed, 2020 was supposed to be the year I ended a 2 year layoff ("obligations and opportunities") to get back in the shooter box. Especailly bummed since the Nat's are now in Morro Bay, might have even got to Mrs to tag along......  

Now the plan is to build a 12 ftlb gun, spend some quality time with it and shoot every match I can next year in the run up to the Worlds in the US.

I hope this gets sorted out soon, we all need to get out to the range and drop some targets


ReplyQuote
JimW
 JimW
(@jimw)
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 65
May 27, 2020 14:20:03  

Latest CDC fatality numbers are interesting, turning out to not be anything like they said it was...  

Children have a higher chance of being struck and killed by lightning than dying from COVID with COVID symptoms present.  If you are elderly and have existing conditions you need to be super careful but for most people this is just a little worse than the seasonal flu by the CDC's own data.

 


ReplyQuote
Billy Dick
(@billy-dick)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 17
June 8, 2020 16:41:16  

What would help me decide to attend a match, is if they actually have one!


ReplyQuote
Gratewhitehuntr
(@gratewhitehuntr)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 803
June 9, 2020 11:58:07  
Posted by: @billy-dick

What would help me decide to attend a match, is if they actually have one!

Winner!

Now, if it were just near Orlando...

 


ReplyQuote
Brad Troyer
(@bradtroyer)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 17
June 15, 2020 18:30:00  

Over 80% of the deaths from CV are in Nursing homes, most of the remainder are people who already have other health issues.

Sun and fresh air are both great methods for fighting CV and general good health.  A lot of the CV information coming from the press and others is hype, some of it is real.

I vote we proceed as normal and those that are concerned can choose not to attend this year. That's just me, I am a rebel and a thinker.


ReplyQuote
Brad Troyer
(@bradtroyer)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 17
June 15, 2020 18:35:56  

By the way, if the match directors make us wear masks and gloves I'm not coming. PhD researchers are finding more and more that the health issues associated with wearing a mask for long periods of time are worse than the affects of not wearing one. Besides that, most masks are useless in preventing the spread of viruses including CV.


ReplyQuote
Will Piatt
(@will-piatt)
Member of Trade
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 80
June 15, 2020 18:52:48  

Ditto what Brad said.


ReplyQuote
Johninma
(@johninma)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 72
June 15, 2020 21:42:41  

Agreed 


ReplyQuote
thomasair
(@thomasair)
Member of Trade
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 25
June 16, 2020 08:59:02  

I’ll throw in another nod of agreement with Brad, Will, and John.  

Mike 


ReplyQuote
MarineO6
(@marineo6)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 73
June 16, 2020 11:05:45  

I’ll reiterate what I said on this thread on April 23 and add that this whole shamdemic has unjustifiably petrified not only the FT community but the entire country.

Time to stop the madness and get back to life as we knew it, if that’s possible.

Going to the CCGC match this Saturday! No masks!


ReplyQuote
Gratewhitehuntr
(@gratewhitehuntr)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 803
June 22, 2020 03:29:14  

I'm approaching this as a non-FT shooter, what would convince me to show up? Do I need another hobby?

 

Dear parrots and Karens... 

I've now begun to wonder just exactly what a body might win at one of these matches?

If I must listen to Karens bellyache about safety gear, and those who cannot tell apart affects from effects, or are perhaps suffering the effects of affects, then we'd need a good prize.

A trophy is not a prize, FWIW, but a hated thing to dust and be asked about. If I want a trophy, I'll buy one at a rummage sale. Great targets BTW...

Posted by: @wayne-burns

The scoring partner is at least 6' behind the shooter. The scoring partner will have to be a lot more attentive.... although the spinners we have been testing for this project swing for a few seconds, so if the scorer is distracted by a naked body or something, the shooter can yell "hit it" and the scorer can still look back and see it swinging hopefully. Please know, I will endeavor to keep all naked bodies out of site at our matches:-) .. and of course no other reason would be acceptable for a score to be distracted from his/her scoring duties.  A point might be deducted from the scorer for lack of attention.

Wayne

Thank you. Accurate score keeping should be above all else, including having fun, and I'm glad to see it's a priority.

If possible I'd like to be scored by the current points leader, and let me state in advance, I've never seen THAT woman in my life 😉 (or was it the hooker form Police academy?)

 

Regarding transmission, outside venues should be sufficient, assuming a lack of crowds, or more accurately, crowding.

Unlike pouring plastic into the ocean, when it comes to aerosols, dilution is the solution to pollution.

Example, painting inside vs outside = a world of difference, and it's the same with shared air.

That IS how it's spread, shared air.

 

As to the rhetoric... neither Herpes nor Ascariasis are usually fatal... doesn't mean I take them lightly, or want them.

Just because the lame-stream media are shitposting trolls, doesn't mean there isn't a real issue behind their dumbed-down report. Lately a lot of people be like... (oops, reset the DAYS SINCE AN ACCIDENT sign!)

https://scontent-mia3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/104752193_164082795125963_1854527377177219366_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=ZXTjPTOGUr4AX8NTGW3&_nc_ht=scontent-mia3-2.xx&oh=fe432ba722b9036229507a195b8d8efa&oe=5F16A319


ReplyQuote
eeler1
(@eeler1)
Member of Trade
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 25
July 14, 2020 10:48:01  

Wayne, are there any state or local regulations that would affect the match?  Or is it just up to the match director? 

Being one of the compromised individuals myself, and with lots of elderly relatives, I'm ok doing my part to not contract or spread any disease.  We all hate being told what to do by the government.  But, if there are rules, fine.  If recommendations, a bit more discretion.

Here in California, it looks like we are getting shut down again, depending on County.  We have mandatory masks for basically any indoor activity outside of the home or car.  Outside seems to be masks (except when exercising), distancing, and sanitizer. Oregon looks similar.

While FT isn't exercising, seems it would be a similar type outdoor event, which suggests masks would be optional. 

I think most people enjoy the interaction with other shooters, so being alone all day would make the match less appealing.  We have little stickers on the floor at the grocery store to help us stay apart when in line.  You might consider setting up shooting and waiting stations at each lane to remind people to keep distance but still be part of a group. 

Only other thing I can think of would be to put sanitizer at each lane and other places where people are touching something in common.

I had assumed that this match had been canceled, and hadn't given it any thought. In my own bubble, I guess.


ReplyQuote
Pzhills
(@paul-in-zhills)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 64
August 6, 2020 11:36:15  

My response is to hell with this covid baloney.  We are being pushed around by these pinhead politicians who are completely ignorant of anything but politics.  None of them, including the doctors and scientists can agree to any of the aspects of this.  So who's right, and what's the purpose of this exercise?  We can't go on being cowards forever.  If you have a match in my area, I'll be there.


ReplyQuote
Wayne Burns
(@wayne-burns)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 142
August 9, 2020 17:48:07  

There are so many "points of view" to consider as the match director of the 2020 AAFTA National Field Target Championships.

I have to lean on the side of Safety.  But that doesn't mean we have to wear masks outdoors... if we can stay 6' apart at all times.

The wind is gonna blow on the coast at Morro Bay CA... it's a 90% chance.  So, we can assume we are very safe at 6' apart.

I will have to enforce that rule.  And I will have my range officers enforce it.  If you do not stay 6' apart, then they will give you a mask to wear.  If you refuse, then you WILL be disqualified and asked to leave the site.

That's the only way we can proceed and I can feel fairly safe in protecting the elderly and more vulnerable folks attending.

Masks are about protecting the other people around you.. not yourself.  When we gather after and before the match, it might be best to wear a mask at that time, because it's very difficult to stay spaced at that time... based on the results of the last match I hosted, the "Oregon St FT Championships" last month.  During the match, distance was easy, but before and after, we tend to need a little more attention to the need of distancing.  Again, my range officers will be watching.

So, in summation, it's a go, but let's be careful and still have as much fun as possible.

Keep in mind the "Bubble method"  If you travel with or have already been close with a small group of folks, then after or before the match, it's up to you what you do.  But in public, you'll need to abide by the rules.

 

Wayne Burns,

Match Director,

AAFTA 2020 National Field Target Championships

 

 

 

 


ReplyQuote