There has been a lot of new discussion (below in the "Missing" thread), about a central location for the AAFTA National FT championships as well as the upcoming chance to host the WFTF championships here in the grand ol USA in 2021.
A site in Yankton SD. http://www.yanktonarcherycomplex.org/page/faqs has been identified as a good possibility for such a location.
I'm investigating the amount of interest from shooters who might join in a Grand Prix match to test out that facility for future possibilities of a Nationals and World championships.
I've sent in an inquiry for the weekend of June 22nd -24th and time to prep the courses the week before. Is that date good or is another date better. Feedback please!
Any other clubs want to join in and help out?
As a shooter, would you travel to Yankton for a GP match in June? or some other date??
Wayne Burns,
Match Director,
Ashland Air Rifle Range
Personally SD is just too far and too expensive. I won't travel over one day's drive to a match... The concept of a central location for our Nationals is wrong as well. That would just make it inconvenient for everyone every year!
I don't want to see any match or venue not be successful and I applaud you and others for trying to find that magic bullet. I shoot other disciplines and I have seen how some of these things just don't work there either.
Rick Bassett
Personally SD is just too far and too expensive. I won't travel over one day's drive to a match... The concept of a central location for our Nationals is wrong as well. That would just make it inconvenient for everyone every year!
I don't want to see any match or venue not be successful and I applaud you and others for trying to find that magic bullet. I shoot other disciplines and I have seen how some of these things just don't work there either.
Rick Bassett
Thanks for your feedback Rick,
This is the kind of info we need to see what is what. If most shooters have the same attitude that Rick has, then really, we should split up into two organizations. East and West.
I can understand that travelling one way even for 24 hours is a lot to ask. But, think about it.... if a shooter from a western state wants to compete in the Nationals, which is held at least three to one on the east coast or south east, then that shooter must travel three times what a shooter on the east coast would have too. If I lived on the east coast I could easily have the same attitude as Rick.
So what will it be.. step up and have a true contest with more of the top shooters all paying the same cost to compete, or just a regional championship with just those who live close by competing?
Step up
or
Step back
what will YOU do?
Wayne
For a regional GP match, I feel the same as Richard. There are enough regional matches within one days drive for most people. Though for a National Match, I think a central location is a better way. As you pointed out, lots of the top shooters from the West don't attend many of the National matches because they are usually so far away. A central location would give the Nationals a better makeup of shooters from throughout the country.
I think the Yankton location could be viable for a National Match (or World Match), but not so sure if you'll get enough for a GP.
Wayne, I am curious to see what you find out about the costs and support in Yankton. Let the group know.
Curious about liability coverage, also, if the facility is an archery range.
Don't a lot of clubs shoot their club matches at facilities already insured through NRA?B
MOSTLY archery, but they already do some airgun and looking to do more:
https://www.yankton.net/river_city/article_b294f068-3c3f-11e7-b9ca-8f8a5b382452.html
That said, I know nothing about their insurance arrangements/requirements.
Wayne, I am curious to see what you find out about the costs and support in Yankton. Let the group know.
Will do Scott. It's great to read the article that Scott Hull posted too. It sounds like they no nothing about field target, and they have those great outdoor archery courses too. The attitude is what I like the most, they seem open to drawing in air gun shooters.
I'll for sure check on the insurance issues.
But the bigger issue is now before us. Is there enough shooters willing to go half way and compete against the whole nation instead of just their region.
What ya say shooters?
Even Steven.... or regional matches that are called National Championships?
Wayne
Wayne requested I move this post to the updated Topic from the "missing" topic
I have to admit the Yankton, SD location looks very appealing as being Centrally located and enough real estate to host a big one. It isn't exactly close to most of the 300 US FT competitors but it might generate a lot of interest in that area. I would commit to attending a GP and National but I'm not sure I could in the same year. From Maine every big shoot is more expensive that your average FT competitor. We are lucky to have the Crosman and PYA event close enough to travel to but they are a strong days drive and 3 + days in a Hotel. It is certainly worth trying and setup on a archery course would make less work. Typical 3D bowhunter World courses would support 1000 to 2000 shooters and some times more but we only shot one arrow at each of 2 or 3 ethafoam targets and after 3 or 4 shooters shot they all walked forward to score and pull their arrows. Then they usually didn't walk back to where they shot the arrows from. They continue on a path or trail to their next shooting lane. There was a lot more walking shooting arrows then we typically do with airguns and mainly for safety reasons.
Curious about liability coverage, also, if the facility is an archery range.
Don't a lot of clubs shoot their club matches at facilities already insured through NRA?B
Good question. A rider is typically available for a location under the NRA' Lockton Affinity insurance partner for a club to purchase. In NC we have three locations on the THAGC policy. It's only an extra $25 per location.
Wayne, this is a question you should consider ask the SD venue... would their coverage extend to non-archery events?
Scott
Thanks George and Hector... I'll keep you posted as to the viability of the planned date. But it doesn't look too good from this initial response. It would be good to hear from shooters.... yes, no or maybe.
I did get an idea that maybe we could announce the potential match on the Canadian FT forum. There could be a few shooters who are close to that area who might come.
I heard back from Abby at the Yankton Archery Complex and I answered a few of her questions and gave her a few more of ours. I'll let you know when I hear back from her.
Wayne
Wayne;
Looking at the calendar, it occurs to me that, perhaps, May 24-26 would make more sense. 27th is Memorial Day, so at least some people may have that day off anyway. And there does not seem to be, at present, at least, a large event planned in the FT Community for the last weekend of May.
Perhaps we can throw this alternative date out there to see if it is more attractive?
Just an idea.
Keep well and shoot straight!
HM
But it doesn't look too good from this initial response. It would be good to hear from shooters.... yes, no or maybe.
I heard back from Abby at the Yankton Archery Complex and I answered a few of her questions and gave her a few more of ours. I'll let you know when I hear back from her.
Count me out for attending a SD trial match or Grand Prix match. I might consider attending a National Championship there, and would definitely try to attend a World Championship there.
Wayne, you may already be on top of the liability insurance question; but if not, make that a top priority at this (early) stage. Just... trust me!
Yes, the Insurance issues are a top question that I asked, both for an indoor possible site in area and for the outdoor site in area, and for the outdoor archery courses.
They have a portable restroom and kitchen concession trailer for rent and they can move it close to our area... she asked if we are interested in that and I said yes a price on it would be nice.
I also talked with Knobs and Hector and we agreed to switch the proposed date to late March (if the weather doesn't look like an issue), or the May date that Hector is proposing. Propose a date if you and a few others are interested in some other date than proposed here.
Thanks for input everyone. We need lots more shooters to comment on what they think about the idea and potential date. If we can get more than 15 brave souls to commit for a date, then I'll go forward and fund the test match and we'll see what is possible for future bigger matches.
I am also for a Western and Eastern Championships that all shooters are welcome at regardless of the coast they live on. The west has held a couple "Western States Championships" already. We could do this in addition to a National contest in SD or somewhere, or just leave it with East and West Champions. At least we stop calling our current regional National Championships a true National Championships. Really the only fair way for that true contest is for all competitors spending about the same effort to get to the match.... especially since their are no prizes they can dream about paying some of or all of the costs. If we could change that, would more of you decide to take a chance and come to SD???
Wayne
... At least we stop calling our current regional National Championships a true National Championships. Really the only fair way for that true contest is for all competitors spending about the same effort to get to the match....
I disagree completely with this statement but I fully appreciate the effort being put forth to make Nationals even bigger and better. I'd attend a Nationals or Worlds in the Midwest, including extending my stay to support preparation/setup/teardown as needed, but it's not likely I would travel over 1000 miles for a GP.
Danny
... At least we stop calling our current regional National Championships a true National Championships. Really the only fair way for that true contest is for all competitors spending about the same effort to get to the match....
Wayne, As I mentioned above I would attend a National in South Dakota but there are many more factors to consider than just the cost and time to get there. That is the same for any sport. Everyone has their priorities and I believe if one aspires to be a National FT Champion or WFTF Champion they will eventually get their chance whether they wait until one comes to a location near them or they bite the pellet and travel. Would be nice to try to make it equal for everyone but that would be a impossible task to fill. Even having it in the middle of the country like Yankton seems to be ... doesn't guarantee anymore competitors will come than our present system, but it's worth a try especially as a venue for the World's in 2021 or even a future National. I also applaud your efforts to make something happen for the FT community.
Really the only fair way for that true contest is for all competitors spending about the same effort to get to the match.... especially since their are no prizes they can dream about paying some of or all of the costs. If we could change that, would more of you decide to take a chance and come to SD???
Wayne
Wayne, using this logic are you saying that any National championship that hasn't been hosted in the middle of the country was not a fair contest? I hope not.
I also don't equate distance with the effort the way you do. The PR guys, for example, have to fly. I think it makes little difference to them if they are flying to Phoenix, Michigan or Baton Rouge. I fly for anything over about an 8-hour drive. It took me a little bit less "effort" to get to Phoneix in 2017 as it did, say, to get to Heflin in 2014.
If you always drive, which I think you do, I can see why you see the effort to get to a match as an issue. But not everyone drives to far matches.
One thing that has not been said is that part of the attraction of the Nats moving around is shooting at different clubs and locations. Also, there are many casual FT shooters or new shooters who will not go far but might want a Nationals experience. Having a Nats in the middle of the country each year won't give them a chance for a Nats close by, and I expect only the most committed shooters will show up, and they probably would have anyway.
Your comment about prizes is interesting but I don't think most shooters will make the go/no-go decision based on the hopes of winning a prize to defray costs.
If the issue is, in fact, a west coast/east coast fairness concern, then there are ways we could solve that. We could have a list like WFTF and just go down it and offer it to each club in turn. We could go around the country by region in a clockwise or counterclockwise direction, offering it to any club or joint hosts in that region who would just say "yes." There are things AAFTA can do to help the host clubs more and I am all for that. I'd like every club to be able to host a Nats. It raises interest in the local area and if done well, money for that local club.
I am totally fine with the idea of a central nationals location, I am just not completely sold on the idea that it needs to be there every year (if that is what you are suggesting).
I remain interested in seeing the response from the SD facility on questions about services, cost, and insurance.
Scott
Any National Championship will be at whatever venue it is staged, and calling one a regional championship doesn't make it not a National Championship. But we understand the point, and sympathize.
Staging a trial match to test the centrally-located venue's viability for a National and/or World Championships may be too little carrot, too far from the nose... for volunteers and/or competitors.
I would like to go but my funds for next year will be spent on traveling to England for the 2019 WFTC.
How about inviting Bruce Cull (the president of the NFAA) to a field target match first? He lives in Yankton, SD. I think he can travel to nearest FT club perhaps in Wisconsin. Someone can introduce him and others to field target.
I think you can show Bruce and other members of the Easton Archery Center how a field target match is run. Once they are convinced, I believe they can create their own AAFTA club, purchase their own targets and other supplies to run a GP match on their own.
They have a 100 yard indoor range. They can host an indoor field target match during the winter months.
Just a suggestion. Wishful thinking.
Leo
Wayne;
Looking at the calendar, it occurs to me that, perhaps, May 24-26 would make more sense. 27th is Memorial Day, so at least some people may have that day off anyway. And there does not seem to be, at present, at least, a large event planned in the FT Community for the last weekend of May.
Perhaps we can throw this alternative date out there to see if it is more attractive?
Just an idea.
Keep well and shoot straight!
HM
There is a GP event being planned on LI for that weekend as it lies between mothers day and memorial day weekends. With the Crosman event happening June 21-23 it would seem the north east will be full with GP's for late spring.
National Championship Location for fairness
I’m not saying that all past AAFTA Field Target National Championships are not valid or fair. But I would like future AAFTA Championships to be fairer. Yes, probably more competitors fly rather than drive to the Nationals, and for those folks it doesn’t matter a couple more hours in a plane vs a couple days more travel in a car. For economy minded competitors, who don’t mind sharing costs and cramming in a vehicle for a couple days each way…. it does make a big difference, as Scott A. has acknowledged.
At the 2012 AAFTA Nationals in Grants Pass Or. There was a low turnout (about 80 I think), compared with other years. Only two of the AAFTA governors attended. It is hard and expensive to travel across country for many…. or maybe there was political reasons for so few to travel from the East for that match, but whatever the reason, a club will have a hard time making it work with so few competitors.
It makes sense to hold more Nationals on the East coast since more clubs are there. .. So few of the East coast folks, like the West coast competitors can or will travel across the country for a National Match as they are currently held most of the time. I say most of the time, because the 2017 AZ Nationals that offered prizes (among other great things), did draw a full roster of shooters. That could be the answer. A West coast event may need prizes to draw enough top shooters across the country. Who Knows? More feedback shooters, I like the conversation we are having… it’s getting real and honest, like it should. And, thank you for keeping it nice and civil.
That is a great idea about getting the administrators at Yankton involved in a field target match and encouraging them to start a club there.
I guess trying to make it fairer for the “economy class” competitors is just a pipe dreamJ
Maybe I’ll plan a Western States Championships in Ashland, instead of a test GP in YanktonJ
Wayne
Yes, probably more competitors fly rather than drive to the Nationals,
I'd be interested in knowing if this is really true. Maybe there would be a way of determining this from past Nationals. I feel most people drive to Nationals that are within their comfort distance in a car. And that there are fewer people that fly to Nationals.
I fear that a central location would actually attract fewer shooters considering most clubs are located either on the west or the east and we would lose many of the shooters that do not want to fly and/or those that do not wish to drive two days to get to a central location.
Jeff P
Jeff I'd think overall yes... more competitors travel by car from less than 1,000 miles. I should have said when traveling from coast to coast, more competitors travel by air than by car.
Really though, your point is valid, and that's not good for this plan in Yankton SD. But, it also makes my point that each year we really have a National Championships that is attended mostly by regional players and a few who travel across the country to join in. That is what it is and it looks like we will live with that... Because, we are finding that a centrally located venue might be too far for a lot of competitors and fewer might attend in the end.
So, that leads me to think maybe the best we can do is switch back and forth between Phoenix AZ and an Eastern venue... if Phoenix is willing to host that often. There seemed to be plenty of support for that club and the venue with the suppliers and the shooters.
But what about planning for the Worlds... if we don't care to use the Yankton site for our Nationals?
Wayne
How about some information on how many shooters attended the 2007 Worlds held in Pulaski, Tenn? How many courses were needed? Was that a WFTF match? I recall Paul Cray won it or at least a class in it. I didn't attend but I'm sure that a few that follow this forum attended. I believe here in the USA there wasn't many shooters playing by WFTF rules back then. In fact the first National trial WFTF class was not held until 2009 when 10 people shot this class in Somerville, Tx. Since then The WFTF and Hunter class has just about tripled in national attendance but many of those shooters came at the expense of the Open PCP and Piston classes. Overall National attendance is still about the same as it was in 2006.
Bill,
I was there but had to look back at AAFTA History. There were 109 shooters including some from England and South Africa. I believe there was a PCP Division (20 ft-lbs, 81 shooters) and Piston Division (20 ft-lbs, 27 shooters) and an International Class (12 ft-lbs, 20 shooters). the International class was a mix of PCP and Piston shooters.
http://www.gobft.net/2007_world_results.html
Jeff P
I don't know if the Rio Salado shooting complex in Phoenix meets all requisites for an FT World Championships, nor if they'd be willing to host it; but if so, I'd think it would be a fantastic venue that would leave a huge and lasting impression on foreign shooters (think "wild west", even wilder than they've imagined). Come to think of it, same would be true if that venue was amenable to Wayne's suggestion of using it every other year for Nats.
In either or both cases, I'd think a lot would depend on whether or not such suggestions would/could be made financially attractive for the venue and/or AAFTA. And to that end, this seems like a good time to bring up something I've wondered with every mention of a U.S.-hosted Worlds. Would there be a Hunter division?
No doubt including a Hunter division at Worlds would increase attendance. The question then becomes whether increased attendance at a U.S. hosted World Championships would be asset or liability.
Speaking for myself and many other Hunter shooters, I'd much prefer to contest Hunter than have to completely re-outfit myself to become World Champion in a less-appealing division! ?
...Speaking for myself and many other Hunter shooters, I'd much prefer to contest Hunter than have to completely re-outfit myself to become World Champion in a less-appealing division! ?
Other than allowing higher FPE, I don't think WFTF ever allowed anything but WFTF shoot rules. So no PFT, no "Hunter Division", and not even world HFT classess. And presently, only 12 fpe is allowed. It's WFTF only, as it should be.
Other countries have "Open", "Sporter", and HFT classes, but they have never been part of a world WFTF match. At best, someone would need to arrange their own "sideshoot" separate from the WFTF committee.
I think a better option would be to hold our National match at the same location, prior to the World match. On an AAFTA type course of course (2 day, 15 lanes/course, 2shots/target, etc.).
...Speaking for myself and many other Hunter shooters, I'd much prefer to contest Hunter than have to completely re-outfit myself to become World Champion in a less-appealing division! ?
I don't think WFTF ever allowed anything but WFTF shoot rules. So no PFT, no "Hunter Division", and not even world HFT classess.
I think a better option would be to hold our National match at the same location, prior to the World match. On an AAFTA type course of course (2 day, 15 lanes/course, 2shots/target, etc.).
By the time I got to your suggestion Scott, I was already thinking along the same lines. The point I'd like to make is this- if the U.S. hosts the FT World Championships, I think it would be a real shame to not also take the opportunity to stage a Hunter FT World Championships (and possibly also a Pistol FT World Championships).
Regardless of whether any sanctioning body recognizes it/them as a World Championship, if the U.S. stages it I see no reason we can't and wouldn't call it/them World Championships. If that happens to step on the toes of a British HFT World Championships, worst-case scenario maybe we call it the American Hunter FT World Championships (or something along those lines).
Should this Hunter WC idea gather support, I'd think it would have to staged and managed by a completely seperate work-force than the WFTF show. That said, I'd also think there may be enough Hunters motivated, willing, and able to make it happen.
What say ye, Hunters (and Pistol shooters)? Stage a Hunter/Pistol World Championships, re-outfit yourself to contest Worlds in a different division, or SPECTATE possibly the last FT World Championships held on American soil in your/my lifetime?
If that happens to step on the toes of a British HFT World Championships, worst-case scenario maybe we call it the American Hunter FT World Championships...
"American Hunter FT World Championships."
There is already a "World Hunter Field Target Organization" (mostly Europe) and a "World Hunter Field Target Association" (mostly England).
They each shoot to the same rules and each has there own "World Championship".
https://www.whfto.com/index.php/whfto/worlds-2018-results
https://sites.google.com/site/whfta1/Home
Our "Hunter" has totally different rules. Though we could still do it. Maybe just rename the AAFTA National match to the AAFTA World Championships. It is already the main match in the world that uses AAFTA Open and AAFTA Hunter Division rules.
Call it "AAFTA National" or "AAFTA World" - it's the same match. It will likely be the same players as the AAFTA Hunter Division at the National match. Unless they are held in different regions.
It seems pretentious.
Good point, Scott.
Since the U.S. plays FT by our own AAFTA rules (other than WFTF division), no reason we shouldn't call AAFTA Nationals the "AAFTA World Championships". Pretentious or not, considering U.S. Nats are the highest level of competition in the world where American-style Hunter and Open divisions are contested, calling it the "AAFTA World Championships" would be accurate.
Personally, I don't bother tip-toeing through the minefield of vernacular political-correctness when the truth is the most direct route and most accurate description. But should this (title) subject warrant further discussion or debate, I would think democratic process would warrant a vote of interested or invested parties. I'm not calling for that; just saying it might be something to consider at some point if this subject justifies further discussion.
It just occurred to me that if the idea of staging a separate American Hunter/Open/Pistol event in conjunction with a U.S.-hosted World FT Championships were to actually happen, that separate event should be called the "AAFTA World Championships", whether or not the title sticks for future AAFTA National Championships.
By the time I got to your suggestion Scott, I was already thinking along the same lines. The point I'd like to make is this- if the U.S. hosts the FT World Championships, I think it would be a real shame to not also take the opportunity to stage a Hunter FT World Championships (and possibly also a Pistol FT World Championships).
Regardless of whether any sanctioning body recognizes it/them as a World Championship, if the U.S. stages it I see no reason we can't and wouldn't call it/them World Championships. If that happens to step on the toes of a British HFT World Championships, worst-case scenario maybe we call it the American Hunter FT World Championships (or something along those lines).
Here are my thoughts, I have been thinking about the since I first saw the Worlds were coming to the US in 2021.
This is the WFTF World Championship any effort to try and overshadow it will result in a rejection.
Create a demonstration class to shoot the match using the same course and dates as the WFTF match. There would be room for Hunter Class shooters to shoot with the Piston group.
Rules for the Hunter Class would follow the WFTF match rules except for the equipment rules where US Hunter Class AAFTA rules would be used with one exception, a 12 fpe maximum power limit. I do not think the WFTF committee would allow 20 fpe rifles to use the official targets for fear of damage.
If AAFTA/WFTF did not want to take on the administrative burden of scoring the class Hunter shooters would gladly take up the task.
Other than the shooting position and separate scoring/results, Hunter Demo Class shooters would be treated like any other shooter participating in the match (dinners, shooters meetings, squading etc)
It appears the Hosting Nation has some flexibility in administering the match, as seen in NZ in 2014. I see nothing in the WFTF rules prohibiting demo/additional classes.
If you want to give FT in the USA a shot in the arm, figure out how allow the rapidly expanding Hunter Class a chance to participate in a World Championship on its home turf. We may be second class citizens at the match but we are used to that.
I cannot see how this would not be a win-win for AAFTA. You would expand the shooter base by a factor of almost 2, increase the revenue stream by a hefty amount and supply a large number of enthusiastic volunteers. The only limiting factor would be a maximum number of participants allowed. Having three 50 shot courses with morning and afternoon squading you have room for over 300 shooters using 2 man squads. I just don't see us approaching anywhere near that number even with a Hunter Demo Class.
I see no downside, it is not intended to take away anything from the WFTF Championship and will only add enthusiasm to the process and match. Also what better way to recruit shooters to the WFTF discipline than to have them participate in such an exciting event.
Jim in Sacramento
I see we have gone full circle on a central national championship since I left for my deer hunt (successful ? ).
I personally do not think there would be enough support to host a regional GP event at a central location anytime soon. So to save time and distraction we should forget that idea for now. We have the perfect opportunity to test the viability of a central location for our National Championship using the Worlds as a springboard. If we hold the 2020 Nationals at the location chosen by AAFTA for 2021 Worlds we should have enough interest to make course/match prep volunteers and registered shooters a pretty good bet for success as well as a perfect test run for the Worlds.
Lets not get off track. Until we hold a central location championship we really cannot effectively evaluate if it is a viable long term option. What we need to happen is for AAFTA to choose a site for the 2021 Worlds, until this gets done everything else is just smoke and speculation.
Jim in Sacramento
...
It just occurred to me that if the idea of staging a separate American Hunter/Open/Pistol event in conjunction with a U.S.-hosted World FT Championships were to actually happen, that separate event should be called the "AAFTA World Championships", whether or not the title sticks for future AAFTA National Championships.
I could see something like that working out well all around.
A scenario:
August 20-22, 2021 Yankton SD
AAFTA World Championships
Pistol/Hunter/Open Divisions only, on AAFTA style courses, 40 shot, 10 lane pistol match, 15 lane rifle courses, 2 shots/target, 3/8”-2” targets.
August 23-25, 2021 Yankton SD
Preparation for WFTF World Championships. Setup, and course setting and marshaling seminars.
August 26-28, 2021 Yankton SD
WFTF World Championships
WFTF only, on WFTF style courses, 50 shot, 25 lane, 1 shot/target, 15mm, 25mm, 40mm targets.
For 2021, AAFTA National(World) Champs are the winners of these matches.
We'll likely get more foreigners coming early to shoot the AAFTA match. They could shoot Open if they just want to have a workout with their WFTF rigs on an AAFTA style course. Or they might try Hunter, maybe pistol too. It becomes a more “Worldly” AAFTA match. USA WFTF shooters have the same opportunity. There will likely be more competition for the Open shooters and for the Hunter shooters.
In recent years, WFTF shooters in the USA have been shooting WFTF “style” at the Nationals, but now it will be on a real WFTF course. No reason that winner can't also be the AAFTA National WFTF Champ as well as the World WFTF Champ.
Still a lot of work, but probably less than a completely separate AAFTA Nationals. A more normal 2020 AAFTA Nationals in Yankton would be a good trial for the 2021 event.
I think your scenario makes a lot of sense on many levels Scott. Some shooters (perhaps foreign and domestic) might take in the full 8 days, but everyone would have the option to participate in as much as they care to. I'd think many shooters would welcome and enjoy the opportunities to explore new horizons outside their usual box. Perhaps even some potential to export Pistol FT, Open Division, and/or American Hunter divisions abroad.
I don't see how your scenario couldn't create additional interest, buzz, and lasting impressions on the FT universe. Reminds me of the concept of 'hybrid vigor' they tried to teach me in school. Unfortunately (or not), mini-skirts were at their historic shortest back then, so I was more than a little distracted!
Gentlemen, I like and support your ideas on bringing the Hunter class and Open class into the fray of a AAFTA World Championship. I have to question how the BOG feels about this. Our hands will be tied until they buy in or out. Would appreciate some of the board members to pipe in on their consideration of this proposal ….. to get a feel for where each member stands. We have time this winter to either solidify this proposal or not.
Would also like to hear from other members of our AAFTA competition circuit. I know this forum will get pretty quite in our "Off season" so e-mail a shooting buddy and let then know what is stirring in the pot.
Simply hosting a WFTF World Championships will be challenging enough; so there could be resistance to the AAFTA World Championship idea from a BoG possibly thinking they'll already have enough on their plate with the WFTF show. I'll speculate an AAFTA Hunter/Open/Pistol World Championships would have to be designed to be as turn-key as possible for the BoG, to have any hope of it becoming reality; and further speculate that making the idea as economically attractive as possible might improve the chances of a BoG blessing. To paraphrase, "Money talks, bull-s*** walks!" Truth is, money is a great motivator.
What I'm getting at is this- the less AAFTA has to sow (invest) versus the more AAFTA might reap, the better our chances of an AAFTA Hunter/Open/Pistol World Championships becoming reality. That means we'd want to ask as little as possible from AAFTA and the BoG, yet return enough to make the idea a viable proposition.
I'd think the first logical step would be demonstrating wide support for the idea from Hunter, Open, and Pistol FT shooters. And by support I mean not only anticipated attendance and entries, but volunteers to make it happen. Need to get as close to possible to, "An offer they can't refuse", rather than a PIA for the BoG.
I've been somewhat MIA from field-target chatter for a while, but it seems FT shooters have also gone somewhat MIA since the old FT Forum shut down. Point being, it may be hard to judge the amount of interest given the reduction in chatter (post-FT Forum). However, this AAFTA Hunter/Open/Pistol World Championship idea might generate some positive FT interest that has been missing since the contentiousness of the old FT Forum left bad tastes in the mouths of many. Perhaps this subject could be foundation for reconstruction of FT forum interest from the ashes of virtual self-destruction.
Then again, I might be letting naive optimism get the better of me. But I see no reason to not use this subject-matter to at least gauge the interest in a rebuild of the old FT Forum here; hopefully improved by the lessons of the past (sins). No harm in trying, huh? If nothing else, we've already piqued the interest of a few top Hunter and Pistol FT shooters.
Any Open division shooters out there? If so, what say ye?
Yankton is 3 hours closer to me than Ashland OR, so its a “hard” one day drive
Also Is expect weather in that area in March to be unpredictable at best, either nice spring like or sub zero arctic temps ... likely both over the course of the week end 🙂
I’d love to help where I can, Ill be following this
Yankton is 3 hours closer to me than Ashland OR, so its a “hard” one day drive.
Dan, let me know next time you're heading to Ashland. It's a 3 hour drive for me, so that would even things out, mileage-wise.
Always glad to help confuse things.
Bob
PS: If yer going to Yankton, by golly I am also. 😉
I finally got an email answer from Abby at the Yankton venue. We set up a phone call for Monday at noon. I'll let you know what I find out from that conversation. I'll also let her know that a regional GP match is not looking realistic at this time... but that we are still interested in the National Championships and potential World Championships in 2021.
Wayne
A scenario:
August 20-22, 2021 Yankton SD
AAFTA World Championships
Pistol/Hunter/Open Divisions only, on AAFTA style courses, 40 shot, 10 lane pistol match, 15 lane rifle courses, 2 shots/target, 3/8”-2” targets.
August 23-25, 2021 Yankton SD
Preparation for WFTF World Championships. Setup, and course setting and marshaling seminars.
August 26-28, 2021 Yankton SD
WFTF World Championships
WFTF only, on WFTF style courses, 50 shot, 25 lane, 1 shot/target, 15mm, 25mm, 40mm targets.
Wayne,
Thanks for making contact with the Yankton Powers That Be, and your pro-active help and contributions in this advance planning.
Scott's idea (above) makes good sense to me as concerns the possibility of a U.S. National Championships the week before the U.S.-hosted World Championships at the same venue; that U.S. National Championships also possibly being termed something along the lines of the AAFTA World Championships to (accurately) denote them as the highest level of American-style Hunter, Open and Pistol championships in the world. And for WFTF shooters with World Championship aspirations, a Nats held one week before Worlds at the same venue could/would be the best possible warm-up for Worlds.
What I'm getting at is (in case you haven't already thought of it) the possibility of you discussing the viability/details of reserving the Yankton venue for two consecutive weekends in the autumn of 2021 in your phone conversation on Monday.
Many Thanks,
R
Just got off the phone with their team, including Bruce their leader. They are very much wanting to get things going in the air gun world at their facility. They are already starting a 10 meter pistol program. They offered the facility for our first match for $700-$800 which would include indoor and outdoor shooting ranges, 3 outdoor women/men comfort stations with concession stands in each building, set up on the archery courses. They really want to do this and I think they would do it for free on the first one if we pushed it.
If we could get a club close by to go there and demonstrate the FT game to a group they would gather there for us before hand, that would be helpful I think. A local club at the venue would be really helpful.
The last two weeks of Sept and all of Oct are free.... as well as all of Aug, so the dates seem to work well with the Archery championships they host already. They want us to pick a date:-)
I wonder if the host club for the 2019 AAFTA Nationals would consider moving to Yankton for the 2019 Nationals. Our club would come early and help any way needed.
They suggested the hosting clubs insurance be used and the Yankton venue be added for the event. They said that's how the archery clubs do it now. That way both insurance policies are covering it. It seems that AAFTA should look into a group policy that all clubs could join. I was reading some bad news in the way of lawsuits by states against the NRA group policy... we need to look into that further.
I see no problem with using their venue for two or three weeks in the time periods that work for them, which seem to also work for us... so an AAFTA Nationals with the Worlds following close behind seems workable from a venue point of view at least.
Well there is it if we want to go for it. The ball is in our court now...
Wayne
Good work Wayne.
On the NRA insurance, I'm not aware of any litigation related to the clubs' coverage through Lockton (the NRA partner in this), what you might have heard about is the litigation about the policy that pays for a legal defense if a firearm owner shoots someone in a self-defense or other scenario.
I can talk to the rest of the BOG about seeing if the national association can get coverage in that manner you describe. What THAGC does is just get a rider on the Lockton policy we pay for each physical location where we host. The insurance will be an issue for the World's event anyway, might as well explore it now.
Sincerely yours,
Scott
Wayne and Scott,
I second Scott's sentiment, good work Wayne! Pretty exciting stuff, if you ask me.
The old Yegua Airgun Club had NRA club insurance that covered any Yegua event held at any location (via rider). So I hosted several matches at my 40 acre home-place, making sure to publicize them as Yegua events beforehand. I assume that might still be the case with NRA club insurance (FWIW).
I've never heard of any NRA/AAFTA connection, or even communication between those bodies. I wonder if that's something to consider before 2021 Worlds; but there may be no need or benefit.
Thank you, Gentlemen.
