After hosting 20 to 30 single day matches I have always set my our sight in range with two sets of targets set 5 yards apart from 10 yards to 55 yards. I have always noted that many of the targets when pulling them down after the match were never shot or shot at very little. As most of you Match Directors know it is time consuming setting up a sight in range. (Especially alone) I'm thinking that maybe all those targets are unnecessary. Many of the years I have shot I only shot the target at the practice range that correlated with my zero range. My zero use to be 20 yards and found that if I was placing pellets in the X ring of that target all my other ranges would be on and that method was always quite successful. For the last 10 years or so I have basically only shot my two zeros typically 20 and 35 yards plus a 10 yard target and a 50 or 55 yard. That's four targets out of the possibility of ten targets
An old saying I have always passed on is that "If you didn't bring it with you... you are not going to find it here (The match you're attending.) I personally think targets at 10 different distances is a overkill. Just wondering what other shooters or Match directors feel about this subject. All welcome to comment.
Hi Bill,
When at the sight in range at a match, I first check my set zero of 30 yds. I shoot it about 5-8 times to determine I I have any POA grouping change. That because of differences in geographical elevation changes, Temps, windage movement poi elevation changes etc.
Then I come back to 10 yards to check the close ranges. After, I shoot the 45 yd and 55 yds to make sure Ithey are on. That's it.
To me if I am on at the closest, the zero, and tha farthest the rest should be in line too.
@bill-day Good morning Bill.
When we were having local matches at Twin Cities we usually only set near, far, and midrange. Before we closed down ( due to lack of interest) ther were a couple hunter shooters who wanted to verify every five yards. So I started setting a line of 10 targets from 10 to 55 yards in addition to the normal setup.
We always had extra targets on hand ( and a 250' tape) so anyone could set up exactly what they wanted, but I rarely had anyone take us up on it.
We always had plenty of help to set up and take down the sight-in targets so it was never a chore, but there wasn't much interest in how the sight-in was set up.
That is, unless the sight in was handicapping someone. In that case we'd usually hear about it indirectly.
Unfortunately, I cut mind reading classes back in school, so I was no damn good at it.
Knobs
Bill;
Many times I have helped setup the sighting in range. Not only in the US, but at several World's also. Yes it is a bit taxing. You have my full sympathy. There are two aspects to this proposal:
1.- Distances
Personally, I only need four distances:
10, 25, 40 and 55 yards (or 9, 23, 36 and 50 meters). Basically because that is how the app works, but also because if your trajectory is on at those points, then you do not have to worry about the intermediate points.
10 is the shortest practical distance
25 is my Zero (trajectory apex for MOST trajectories)
40 is the mid point between Zero and Longest Legal Shot (LLS)
55 is the LLS
So, those would be enough for any reasonable expectation.
Shooting a piston gun is slightly more challenging than a PCP, and so, confirmation of trajectory is important. Not only Zero, Trajectory.
Some shooters use different zeroes, for benefits they have found for themselves. 20 and 30 are popular, but if you look at 90% of trajectories the 20 and 25 points of travel are darned close (to me, it is less than 1/10th of a mRad), so, for all practical purposes, you COULD change one for the other.
The 30 yard zero is a bit different, as the POT is 2/10th's away.
SOME shooters use a 40 yds zero, and that would be covered by my suggestion.
Only ONE shooter I know has used a 45 yards "zero" (to be impolitely forward, since most FT shooters use clicking, there is NO single "Zero"), only those like us that shoot with ONLY hold-off's have a true zero, and that was mostly because he wanted his scope to be optically centered at the midpoint of the WHOLE trajectory.
In conclusion, I would set targets at 10, 25, 40, and 55.
2.- Materials
The requirement for paper targets has been ensconced in WFTF rules since the beginning of times, but it is not too practical, I believe that it would be more practical to set up 3-4 steel plates, well anchored to shafts 3' tall, about letter size (8½X11) with a slight inclination downwards (10° is all that is needed), at each of these distances, and paint them white (with grass / court lining paint). If you want to be sophisticated, make a stencil of 3/8" holes and use it to paint aimpoints.
In practice, you choose a small, blank space in the plate, put a pellet spot in there and aim at the pellet dot. You can then define what actions, if any, you will take with your settings.
In this way to "refresh" the sight-in range it only takes a few minutes with a can of paint (two cans if you want to be ultra-accommodating).
AND, the plates can stay out all year.
No need to print targets, no waste of paper, no garbage, no clearing and re-setting.
HTH, keep well and shoot straight!
HM
@hector-j-medina-g
Hey Hector,
I like the steel idea. They do that at Redferns & there's always some guy's previous pellet splat that one can use as a starting point. It also doesn't get wet in the rain, but can be problematic to repaint when wet.
At Twin Cities the steel would have to have been portable because it's a whole lot easier for the contractor to mow.
Yes the sight-in range does take a lot of time and work for amount of time it gets used. Hector is correct in what he says and yes i can take just a couple of sighting shots and know whether my gun is good to go. If it is not good then I need a few more distances and everyone is different in both needs and skill level. more distances is better than less but it is up to the match director what he/she chooses to put out. Some sight-in ranges are great and others, well not so much.
As far as target types paper is always good but steel plates work too. i personally prefer the hit to reset practice field targets as they are most like what you will shoot in the match.
Rick B.
PS Good topic to discuss Bill.
@rich177 Thanks Guys, Usually my imput isn't so well received but for sure there is waste of resources and materials in our game that may be able to be alleviated to some extent to make setting up for matches more productive and even cut down a little burn out. Some great ideas voiced also.
Thanks Bill! We have been discussing this topic!
Chris Berry
Agree with using steel plates at the four distances 10, 25, 40 & 55 yards. Matches the PA cup speed silhouette distances.
Can bolt on 1” and 1.5” washers to steel plates for targets. 1/2” diameter round bolt heads for the shorter distances.
My take after many years of running and shooting matches is that the steel targets work fine but some guys still like having paper. I would put steel out at the 5 or 10 yard increments and then paper targets at the major sight in ranges on the day of the match. The steel is nice since if you have a range that is open to the club members outside of the regular matches. They can shoot the steel and don't need to put out paper targets.
My question, on the steel plates, has anyone tried drilling 3/16" or 1/4" divot into the steel to use as aim points? I am not sure if they would fill with lead and paint over time. Just a thought on how to add aim points to the steel.
@brad-troyer
It only takes ONE pellet to put an aimpoint in the steel plate. And with a flat plate you can sand/fiber off the old paint after 15-20 re-paintings easily with a power tool.
Harder to do if you have indentations or protrusions.
JMHO
HM
Interesting thoughts on minimizing setups on the sight in range. A couple observations:
1) I had the surprising and unpleasant experience of getting zinged (lightly) in the cheek just below my glasses with a .177 ricochet off a 10 yd small hanging steel target. Seems almost statistically impossible when you look at the physics, but it managed to happen, so might be a consideration. The 10 degree anchored plate might reduce the risk of this. Probably should have purchased a lottery ticket that day.
2) I like having a 30 yd target, as that is my zero on a couple setups. I know the 25 yd would be very very close, but still violates the OCD nature that is seemingly required for most of us shooting FT. 🙂
3) Even at our smaller local matches, the popular distances get pretty shot up quickly, so it is sometimes hard to find an open spot to see where you are; not sure how painted steel would accommodate this after a few shooters have gone off the line.
@camber314 I had the same unpleasant experience that resulted from shooting a target at 10 yards that was elevated about 5 degree.
It hurt & I was grateful that it didn't hit my eyeball.
After that I started wearing shooting glasses. Quality, fog proof, yellow tinted, prescription glasses that had built in reading diopters.
I'd have to agree with Brad that paper is still desirable, especially if the printed bullseye gives a reference as to your group size. It's also a lot cheaper when putting out a lot of targets.
Still, steel is a great way to go. If it get's shot up just call a cold line and repaint the plates.
K
Interesting thoughts on minimizing setups on the sight in range. A couple observations:
1) I had the surprising and unpleasant experience of getting zinged (lightly) in the cheek just below my glasses with a .177 ricochet off a 10 yd small hanging steel target. Seems almost statistically impossible when you look at the physics, but it managed to happen, so might be a consideration. The 10 degree anchored plate might reduce the risk of this. Probably should have purchased a lottery ticket that day.
2) I like having a 30 yd target, as that is my zero on a couple setups. I know the 25 yd would be very very close, but still violates the OCD nature that is seemingly required for most of us shooting FT. 🙂
3) Even at our smaller local matches, the popular distances get pretty shot up quickly, so it is sometimes hard to find an open spot to see where you are; not sure how painted steel would accommodate this after a few shooters have gone off the line.
Ricochets are another reason to NOT want any "divots" in the plates. At 10 yards, even a perfectly vertical plate CAN reflect, not a ricochet, but the "relaunch" of the molten core of the pellet that is ejected in the reflected direction. If the incoming is 0°, it will get ejected at 0°
MAIN thing with plates as PRIMARY (not exclusive) means of sighting-in is that, once you have made the investment in the plates, there is no running cost (you still need to buy paint for the FT's). Let's do some numbers:
Typical sight in range (what we normally set at DIFTA for local matches):
30 frames (3 @ 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, 50, 55) with two sheets per frame: 60 sheets.
Least expensive Waterproof card stock (because if we are going to compare, we should compare apples to apples) is about $0.20/sheet
@ $0.20 ea is $12.00 per shoot. And, truth be told, is that some cards have one or two shots ea. After the shoot, they are left to the elements.
Proposed Steel plate arrangement:
EIGHT plates at each distance: 10, 25, 45 and 55 (32 plates), quote by Metal Supermarket: $420/32 plates 8.5"" X 11" X 0.105"
The cost becomes even in 35 shoots, that is about 5 years (6 to 7 shoots per year, some sort of "Break Even point").
To be "impolitely" honest, I would prefer 8 plates at the "critical" distances, than 6 sheets everywhere, mostly at distances that are not relevant to the trajectory. It would need a HUGE attendance to get the plates so shot out that a repaint would have to be declared.
MANY clubs are older than 5 years, and MANY clubs do maintain their sight-in ranges open all year, what they cannot provide is paper for every weekend.
Time to setup a paper course: 25-45 minutes depending on how elaborate you want to make it, PLUS the time for printing and the fact that you need to REMEMBER to bring the printed targets to the range (LOL!), so you are talking about 1.5 hours devoted by the MD to THIS chore only. Sure, it is easier to get help for the sight-in range than for the actual setup of the course. But it IS a time and process "bother".
For "Important" Matches (GP's, State Champ's, National's, World's), you WILL need paper because that is what the rules/handbook orders or suggests. But for the shooters, as an "everyday" offering and kind of "value added" from the Club to the shooters, the plates make MUCH more sense.
AND, again, being impolitely frank: I have been to MANY "important matches" where the MD's have so much on their plates that the sight in range on day TWO is but a SHADOW of what it was on day ONE. Getting the plates up to snuff would require much less effort and time.
Lastly, For those that think that a group cannot be established shooting at a painted steel plate: while that is almost true if the plate is painted in enamel that splinters and explode when hit by the pellet, it is not true when used with grass/marking paint that only creates a small "pock" where the head of the pellet hit.
These plates are SUBSTANTIALLY smaller:
But there are a lot of them:
And they worked very well:
Keep well and shoot straight!
HM
