Does anyone know of a wimpier hammer spring available for a Crosman 2300?
My factory 2300KT only produces 30 (usable) shots from a 12g CO2 cartridge. I know most people want a stronger hammer spring, but I shoot 10 meter targets and really do not need the power. I'd rather get 50 shots per CO2 cartridge - similar to my Diana Chaser. I could use a power adjuster like I did on my 2240, but that seems like overkill when all I want is more shots per cartridge.
Or look into a bstaley O-ring buffer. The concept is simple...just stack 3 (usually) -113 O-rings against the valve. They act like a bumper to limit valve lift and dwell, the result being less CO2 usage. It usually takes some trial and error to fine tune the stack height but you can often get a substantial increase in shot count with very little effect on velocity. On average I’ve gotten about twice as many shots per cartridge on over-sprung guns like the 2240.
Does anyone know of a wimpier hammer spring available for a Crosman 2300?
My factory 2300KT only produces 30 (usable) shots from a 12g CO2 cartridge. I know most people want a stronger hammer spring, but I shoot 10 meter targets and really do not need the power. I'd rather get 50 shots per CO2 cartridge - similar to my Diana Chaser. I could use a power adjuster like I did on my 2240, but that seems like overkill when all I want is more shots per cartridge.
Any links and/or suggestions?
These should be the hammer spring dimensions. Look for a shorter OL or same length and width with thinner wire.
Your KT is probably a .22 If it is they probably put a 2240 valve and hammer spring in it. That would help explain the low shot count. I purchased a 2300s, hated it/still have it, but now it is a .22 Swapped out the hammer spring, valve and barrel. I like it better now. The 2300 valve uses not only a softer hammer spring but a different spring inside the valve, I think softer but not sure. The above dimensions are correct for the 2300 spring. I would buy one from crosman or cut a couple rings off your spring.
If you have a .177 and only getting 30 shots per cart, that is strange. If you have a .2240 valve and hammer spring and a .177 barrel maybe we could swap. Just message me.
Your KT is probably a .22 If it is they probably put a 2240 valve and hammer spring in it. That would help explain the low shot count. I purchased a 2300s, hated it/still have it, but now it is a .22 Swapped out the hammer spring, valve and barrel. I like it better now. The 2300 valve uses not only a softer hammer spring but a different spring inside the valve, I think softer but not sure. The above dimensions are correct for the 2300 spring. I would buy one from crosman or cut a couple rings off your spring.
If you have a .177 and only getting 30 shots per cart, that is strange. If you have a .2240 valve and hammer spring and a .177 barrel maybe we could swap. Just message me.
A Challenger hs is softer than a 2240 hs - found that out from buying Challenger hs adjusters which includes a hs.. Definitley softer than a 2240 hammer spring.
@mike - yes, it is a .177. It is certainly possible that they used a 2240 spring, but I'll have to do some surgery and see what's actually inside.
@bigbore - I've never heard of a volume reducer. Feel free to enlighten me.
@nervoustrigger - I would cut the spring only as a last resort. The bastaley seems intended for PCPs and I don't see blogs about using it on good ole CO2 guns.
Before you cut or change the striker spring you might want to consider adding a "Power Adjuster" which will allow you to dial down the spring preload. Keep in mind that piercing the 12g Powerlet depends on a fair amount of spring force. Only way around that is to install a Pro-Top which will let you reduce the striker hit to as little as you want.
If you look at the Crosman EVP for the 2300 you will see a valve volume reducing sleeve inside the valve body.
Regarding the alternative approach with simply cutting the spring, why is it a last resort? Worst case you have to order a replacement from Crosman. You would be ordering a spring from somewhere if you wanted to try a softer one, but in the meantime you could experiment and perhaps avoid having to order anything.
Regarding the alternative approach with simply cutting the spring, why is it a last resort? Worst case you have to order a replacement from Crosman. You would be ordering a spring from somewhere if you wanted to try a softer one, but in the meantime you could experiment and perhaps avoid having to order anything.
Most of the 22xx based guns that have crossed my path have barely pierced a 12g powerlet. That said, in all probability a power adjuster will allow the use of an oem spring to be backed off to the point that the cart no longer gets pierced and then just add a turn or so to be reliable.
Not at all saying that o ring bumpers, and cut springs won't do the job..they just require more tear downs to get it right.
Most of the power adjusters now available allow not only pre load adjustment but springs can be swapped without any additional disassembly.
The Pro-Top gives positive piercing of the powerlet regardless of the strength of the striker hit.So the speed can be dialed down as low as possible to increase shot count it also allows the use of easier breaking harder poppet stem.
We all have our favorite ways to get things to work as we would like, and then pass them on to try to help others with what we have learned.
That is a good point about how well (or not) the piercing pin operates. I do recall seeing signs of weak piercing on Crosman-branded cartridges, not so much with other brands. I’m referring to the American made ones…I haven’t yet tried the China-sourced ones they are putting on store shelves in 2021. So yeah that could prove to be an issue with a weaker hammer spring, in which case having a backup plan would be good:
Pro Top (a sure thing), or
RVA to adjust hammer spring tension conveniently in small increments (might work, might not). The OP stated he wants to avoid adding an RVA so I’m guessing both #1 and #2 are not preferred options, so continuing with other options…
Use a weaker valve spring, or
Profile the tip of the piercing pin, giving it a shallower angle so it will pierce with less force, or
Use another brand of cartridges (kind of a nuisance), or
Some combination of 3, 4, and 5
And then one we haven’t discussed, adding an SSG. That will let you maintain a fairly sharp hit to the valve stem to ensure cartridges get pierced properly, but eliminate the usual CO2-wasting hammer bounce. However if an RVA is not wanted, I doubt an SSG would be either. Just trying to put all options on the table.
Might have done more low power co2 shooting than many...and “wasted” a good number of 12gr. along the way find out.
The size of the pop-open doesn’t have all that much to do with low power co2 shooting, so long as it does pop open. If the valve gets filled, then there is more co2 in the valve alone than you’d use for a really low powered shot.
Unless you “waste” a few 12gr., getting them out after one hit….five hits...10 hits...we normally only take a 12gr. after we’ve nearly run out of co2 (and valve poppet holding pressure) you’ll not notice the progression.
ProTop does work...but also realize it only feeds gas into the valve though the little piercing nipples tiny central hole. Always pops the 12gr but doesn’t supply as much co2 into the valve quickly as the outside diameter of that hole shows.
As soon as the valve gets pressurized, it adds all that force to keeping the valve closed, so the little pop-open hole from a weak hit won’t get bigger until it’s struck after the gas has mostly be used up (and the pressure drops).
Have two I really keep cranked down...both Crosman 22XX type 12gr systems...they pop the 12gr with a little hole but shoot well. One you can actually hear the co2 refilling the valve (it’s quick...but can hear a little quick hisss for like 1/8ths a second).
With such low spring force, the really slow/weak spring ones will start going into valve lock when taken out into heat. Will get that initial strike’s small hole, but once the hot-pressure co2 gets in the valve, can lock up until they are back to indoor ambient.
Were I you, would go with a simple spring adjuster….staying with low power, might need to adjust from winter to summer. Probably being most of those are made to INCREASE tension, not a lot of room to decrease it.
Your KT is probably a .22 If it is they probably put a 2240 valve and hammer spring in it. That would help explain the low shot count. I purchased a 2300s, hated it/still have it, but now it is a .22 Swapped out the hammer spring, valve and barrel. I like it better now. The 2300 valve uses not only a softer hammer spring but a different spring inside the valve, I think softer but not sure. The above dimensions are correct for the 2300 spring. I would buy one from crosman or cut a couple rings off your spring.
If you have a .177 and only getting 30 shots per cart, that is strange. If you have a .2240 valve and hammer spring and a .177 barrel maybe we could swap. Just message me.
The valve has a volume reducer doesn't it?
Absolutely correct. I forgot about that brass sleeve. The valve stem/piercing rod are a little different also. I believe the 2300 valve stem has more material on it. It's been a while since I had a crosman valve disassembled.
@mike - yes, it is a .177. It is certainly possible that they used a 2240 spring, but I'll have to do some surgery and see what's actually inside.
@bigbore - I've never heard of a volume reducer. Feel free to enlighten me.
@nervoustrigger - I would cut the spring only as a last resort. The bastaley seems intended for PCPs and I don't see blogs about using it on good ole CO2 guns.
There is a sleeve that goes inside certain model valves to reduce the internal volume and thus power.
Crosman makes a hammer spring adjuster that replaces the tube endcap. A bargain IMO! My advice is get one, no need to reinvent the wheel. All the way in to pierce the cartridge on the first strike and then back off to your preferred power level.
With Steve's HDD we were making some amazingly efficient guns! I put a lot of details at the top of the shot string graph. This was a shot string with heavies, one cartridge and it wasn't uncommon for me or many others. Notice the adjuster on the back of both tubes.
IIRC, these were stock valves with any reducers removed, long barrels, Tri-Flow PTFE lube on my hammers and I may have ground a little off the hammer, you'd have to weigh one and compare it to my note at the top.
Make a Crosman part order and pick up a few extra hammer and valve springs, a couple of valve stems, valve O-rings and a Discovery model hammer spring which is a little stronger to play around with. Good fun!
One last note. You see 50 shots is EASILY doable and you don't even have to have a wimp gun; you will need a longer barrel though. Stock barrel, light pellet(8-9 grain) and a 1/2 turn more on the hammer spring preload and you could easily have what you want. HDD is a must.
Not sure the small amount of volume that brass insert takes up is all that important. Valve stem seems to be the same, but with the insert in place, it limits the space around the poppet for gas to flow. Likely they used that simple insert because it was easier/cheaper than setting up for a new fatter valve stem.
These have been around longer than I have tinkered with this platform. It boasts an angled TP and "Enlarged chamber increase volume".
This was a also a popular DIY modification. I haven't done the math on the increased or decreased volume but the Boss valve made a noticeable performance difference as did the volume modification. I wouldn't doubt that flow restriction enters into the equation, but I believe there is a lot of discussion on the benefits of increasing the valve's internal volume on the forums.
Somewhere out there there has to be a post comparing the same valve with and without the volume reducer. Heck, I may have even done one, IDR.
Thought the original poster was looking for low power and more shots per 12gr,,,something like 50 shots for one 12gr......boss valve would be a step in the other direction (quite good for power over shot count).
Would help if I had felt the pistol cock...you get use to the feel of what's needed.
In that slow/50 good shot direction, would likely leave it alone and try the bstaley o-ring trick. It can work, is cheap and easy, and worse case you can undo it go back. MIght be more complex ways to get to goal, but getting there is what counts.
Kind of surpized that he's having the issues he's having with a 2300KT....but if it was cold weather, could see only 30 shots. Not only does cold make co2 slower, it uses more gas per shot to do it.
Thought the original poster was looking for low power and more shots per 12gr,,,something like 50 shots for one 12gr......boss valve would be a step in the other direction (quite good for power over shot count).
In that slow/50 good shot direction, would likely leave it alone and try the bstaley o-ring trick. It can work, is cheap and easy, and worse case you can undo it go back. MIght be more complex ways to get to goal, but getting there is what counts.
Kind of surpized that he's having the issues he's having with a 2300KT....but if it was cold weather, could see only 30 shots. Not only does cold make co2 slower, it uses more gas per shot to do it.
Our secret weapon back in the day was Steve in NC's HDD. I don't recall seeing the B Staley mod on the 2240 platform, I'll look for some info when I get a little more time.
Back this down to 500 FPS and you're probably in the 50 shot ballpark.
I'm sure with this thread as a guide and a little TLC he'll get where he wants to be.
