Fella has an older Beeman (San Rafael) FWB 124 with the rounded scope rail. It has the grooves and even some slits in it.
What CURRENT PRODUCTION scope base and ring set will fit this model? Is it the BKL double-strap (BKL-263H-MB)?
Does anyone still make the mount with the cross pins to fit the rail grooves?
You don't have to use a special mount, as long as there's room for a stop pin screw in your standard mount or ring.
Put a stop screw in the chuck of something that will turn, whether it's a lathe or a power drill.
Then, while the screw is turning, shape the end of the screw so it's as close as reasonably possible to the shape of the concave recess in the top of the receiver.
A Dremel tool works great against the end of the turning screw. But, I suppose you could do it with hand files and sandpaper if that's all you had to work with.
Fairly close is good enough. Use a drop of Lock Tite on the threads of the new stop screw to hold it in place.
There's no need to over-tighten the screw in the base of the mount or ring, as if you're trying to pry it off the top of the receiver. Just a little interference between the fit of the two parts will make everything stay put.
On the other hand, you do want the shape of the end of the screw to be rounded, so it can protrude down into the groove on the receiver. If it isn't, the base could come scraping back across the top of the receiver.
I seem to remember that might have been the same setup I used on my old Beeman Kodiak. It had a pretty good kick to it. And, it never moved at all.
You don't have to use a special mount, as long as there's room for a stop pin screw in your standard mount or ring.
Put a stop screw in the chuck of something that will turn, whether it's a lathe or a power drill.
Then, while the screw is turning, shape the end of the screw so it's as close as reasonably possible to the shape of the concave recess in the top of the receiver.
A Dremel tool works great against the end of the turning screw. But, I suppose you could do it with hand files and sandpaper if that's all you had to work with.
Fairly close is good enough. Use a drop of Lock Tite on the threads of the new stop screw to hold it in place.
There's no need to over-tighten the screw in the base of the mount or ring, as if you're trying to pry it off the top of the receiver. Just a little interference between the fit of the two parts will make everything stay put.
On the other hand, you do want the shape of the end of the screw to be rounded, so it can protrude down into the groove on the receiver. If it isn't, the base could come scraping back across the top of the receiver.
I seem to remember that might have been the same setup I used on my old Beeman Kodiak. It had a pretty good kick to it. And, it never moved at all.
That's a good way to leave a nice scar across the top of the receiver, or at minimum marks in the stop grooves. I have had two 124s with this scar from folks doing just that.
The grooves in a FWB receiver just aren't deep enough for a standard stop screw setup. Just one shortcoming in a very long list with these rifles.
A BKL mount of any flavor or a one piece mount without a stop screw is a safer way to go if you are concerned with marring the receiver.
After all, if your mount fits and grips well to begin with, you don't need a stop pin in the first place.
To answer the OPs original question:
Sportsmatch still lists the mounts with the crosspin for FWB/Webley. The part number is T03 Special. Looks to be available on Amazon.
"The grooves in a FWB receiver just aren't deep enough for a standard stop screw setup. Just one shortcoming in a very long list with these rifles".
No.
No posting wars here. If you play you lose. Done.
I'm sure there are plenty of other people with marred up receivers from standard stop pins. Hell I own two now that were that way when I got them.
If there weren't, do you think that Sportsmatch would have went through the trouble to design one with a crosspin SPECIFICALLY to prevent damaged receivers? ESPECIALLY when they already make a whole line of mounts with standard stop pins? Why wouldn't they save the trouble and just recommend those if they were fine to begin with?
"No posting wars here. If you play you lose. Done." - I don't think presenting sound logic is starting a posting war. But some may see it that way looking down from a high horse. I'm not a "Tunemeister" after all, just a guy that tries to help people keep their guns shooting.
BB Pelletier gives the same nix to the use of a vertical stop pin mod for mounts on the FWB 124: (scroll down to "Forget This" heading) for the very reason that LimbShaker lists:
https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2010/09/a-shrine-built-for-a-feinwerkbau-124-part-9/
He shows an out of production BKL mount with two cross bars....like a Weaver mount....but says you have to remove one cuz the two do not line up with the grooves in the rail:
I guess I am wondering what mounts the NEW production 124 Sports are recommending. I see the updated guns available from that AZ company, and with the same scope rails.
My standard springer scope mounts don't work, cuz they are made for FLAT rails (like Dianawerkes guns), not the rounded rails of the FWB.
"The 124 has half round notches at the rear of the receiver to hold a hardened steel crosspin,which runs transversely through the bass of one of the scope mounts. It's the same system used on many 10 meter target rifles for holding their aperture sights. The trouble is, with the with the proliferation of rifles using vertical holes for scope stop pins, the wrong mounts often get installed on 124s. This leads to one or more deep scratches in the finish of the gun, as recoil causes the narrow pin to carve a farrow through the half round notch." By Tom Gaylord, Airgun Review #1, page 2. The correct scope mount is the Sport match with the locking pin.
Looks like Pyramyd has the Sportsmatch T03 Special:
"The grooves in a FWB receiver just aren't deep enough for a standard stop screw setup. Just one shortcoming in a very long list with these rifles".
No.
No posting wars here. If you play you lose. Done.
I'm sure there are plenty of other people with marred up receivers from standard stop pins. Hell I own two now that were that way when I got them.
If there weren't, do you think that Sportsmatch would have went through the trouble to design one with a crosspin SPECIFICALLY to prevent damaged receivers? ESPECIALLY when they already make a whole line of mounts with standard stop pins? Why wouldn't they save the trouble and just recommend those if they were fine to begin with?
"No posting wars here. If you play you lose. Done." - I don't think presenting sound logic is starting a posting war. But some may see it that way looking down from a high horse. I'm not a "Tunemeister" after all, just a guy that tries to help people keep their guns shooting.
Well, I've tuned/restored over a hundred 124/127s in the past 30 years....
What Limbshaker states above is just the simple facts, IMHO
https://www.amazon.com/Sportsmatch-Medium-Dovetail-Webley-Patriot/dp/B00TOZCW8K
Ok, that looks like the ones. They don't say if BOTH rings have the exposed/locking cross pin, or just one. From what I see on the rifle, only the REAR ring will fit in a groove. The front ring should not have the cross pin or the ring cannot be used. Like putting a Picatinny style ring on a flat scope rail.
Anyhow, I will pass on the info. Thanks!
K in NY
A good one-piece mount like the BKL should work fine... the long clamping force keeps the mount in place, from my experience.
I have a Tie-Rodded Drooper mount that I bought many years ago, and it never moves... this custom mount was available long before drooper mounts became available, like the BKL models.
You might need a drooper mount, or use a thin shim in the rear mount.
Never slipped. And these aren't exactly the strongest rings. No double this or that. Beeman 5084 with a stop. This is what Beeman evidently recommended. Had a stop on it too when I bought it. That's the setup Beeman used for the FWB 124 illustration in their catalog (And the R1 too). So I took the stop off to see what happens. Nothing happened. I prefer the cleaner look anyway.
You can't overtorque these rings because if you do they just bend (the clasps). And then you throw them away! That's why Beeman discontinued them. Gorilla fisted airgunners bent them. But they're working fine for me. Why would I replace these with a heavy one piece if this is sufficient? Lighter is righter. I never add weight to a gun unnecessarily. And they do look nice don't they? Better looking than the Sportsmatch no contest.
My point is you don't even need a stop, or a stop pin, or a one piece.
My 2 cents ain't worth a dime.
@kwk webly patriot made by Hatsan rated at a true 1250fps lead pellet has a recoil that will move a scope if it is not properly secured. Thanks for info for Pyramid scope. I ordered one for myself.
@kwk
The Webly Patriot I have is made by Hatsan after Webly closed their doors. My Patriot made by Hatsan has the grooves over the dove tail scope mounts. So this scope mount works for me.
I'm not a "Tunemeister" after all, just a guy that tries to help people keep their guns shooting.
Shame. SHAME! 🤣
@kwk webly patriot made by Hatsan rated at a true 1250fps lead pellet
I was only teasing the other guy, but this...
The front ring should not have the cross pin or the ring cannot be used. Like putting a Picatinny style ring on a flat scope rail.
That is a steel pin in an aluminum ring. If both were pinned, one pin could simply be knocked out. If blind pinned, file or mill a slot and catch it with a chisel. It may be soft enough to catch with a sharp cold chisel. Tappy tap, Bob's your auntie.
Or, buy a similar set of regular rings to provide an un-pinned front, and have 2 pairs. 😉
I do like the 4 bolt 1 piece mounts, but also kinda agree with Karl about adding weight.
