Hey all,
Just curious. What Spring rifle is the most accurate you have ever seen?
I shoot paper only from 10 to 50 meters or so in my back yard. I have a Diana 34 Classic Pro that's pretty nice, but I've thought about getting something better, more accurate. I've always wanted one of the FWB Match rifles, but I'd want one that would give me the flexibility to mount a scope on it if I wanted to. I also like the older rifles too. I saw pics of a Diana, I think, that was absolutely gorgeous, as pretty as the FWB 300 rifles. Problem is that they don't seem to show up much on the classifieds.
Anyway, what do you think? Is there a Spring rifle that you have seen or shot that you wish you owned now because it was so accurate or so pleasant to shoot, etc.?
If you own it now, that's awesome. How about entertaining those of us that are not so fortunate by posting a pic of your prized rifle?
Thanks all and have a good week,
Larry
I think Bob in WV pretty much hit the nail on the head. My personal favorite is the FWB 300 mini. If you mount a short scope it will not interfere with loading. The gun is not pellet fussy. Out to 20 yards the 300 series are tack drivers with fantastic triggers. This is mine before installing a short scope.
“They” say that the most accurate of all springers might have been the Anschutz 380. It was the last spring-piston rifle to win a major title in top-level competition - the gold medal at the 1984 Los Angeles Olympics.
But in terms of looks, durability, availability, and serviceability, the FWB 300S is absolutely king of the hill. A trouble-free, steel-and-walnut beauty that you can enjoy and shoot for years to come.
Hey all,
Just curious. What Spring rifle is the most accurate you have ever seen?
I shoot paper only from 10 to 50 meters or so...
Larry
Going recoil-less seems to be the way to achieve the best springer accuracy.
The Giss system rifles do that with 2 opposing piston's, with examples being the Diana 65 and Hyscore 810 (hope I get all my model numbers right). Those are best suited to 10 or so meter shooting distances, because of modest power. They are no longer made, but occasionally show-up used.
The FWB300S uses a sliding sled system I believe, but power is also modest. Used is how you'll find them.
The TX200SR SHOULD also give good accuracy using a sled system but with more power than the classic 10 meter rifles, but I never hear them mentioned for some reason. I don't believe they're made anymore.
Another sled system performer with plenty of power for 50 meters is the RWS 54 (thumbhole version is 56TH), and you should be able to find one of those.
The last rifles I'll mention are those made by John Whiscombe with part numbers starting "JW"--his initials. They're not made anymore either, but you may find a used specimen. The price will typically be very-high, to reflect their original price and now their rarity. They have enough power for 50 meters. The recoil was omitted also by 2 pistons cancelling out each other's mass-inertia, but with piston's that faced each other contrasted to the 2 piston's traveling in opposite directions on the Giss rifles.
A footnote would be that the Giss system shooters were also available in pistol form. I forget the part numbers of those.
HTH.
FWB-300S is my favorite spring-piston rifle. Its also the most accurate for off-hand shooting.
But for NRA metal silhouette (off-hand) competition, my HW-97 was by far the most accurate of my 10 or so spring-piston air rifles.
And actually, I like the looks and the shooting of my TX-200 the best. But for some reason, my metal silhouette scores were always lower with it than the TX-200.
I'd have to say that my Diana 34 was probably the most difficult to shoot accurately. I don't know why. I just never could master it.
And I never really mastered my Whiscombe. I loved owning it, but even in FT matches, I couldn't get it to compare to some of my other rifles.
I love springers! Love 'em much more than PCPs. Went to an airgun festival weekend held by Chasm years ago. I shot over 500 pellets in the 2 days there. Crank and shoot . . crank and shoot . . . crank and shoot. What fun!
For break barrel springers with +10 m power, I will place another vote for the (newer) Walther LGV. Heavy side, but amazing.
I think the 10m class is pretty thoroughly covered above. I have a couple-three of those opposed springy fixed barrel things, and they are amazing, but if you want to kill a rabbit or target or something out at the edge of the yard, this rifle has astounding first round accuracy and repeatability with very decent power.
I have been very impressed with it, but there are a lot of other things that might matter depending on how/what you shoot.
In my experience, either a FWB 603 or FWB 601RT.
http://sonnysan.blogspot.com/2007/04/after-many-months-i-finally-received.html#links
Hey all,
Just curious. What Spring rifle is the most accurate you have ever seen?
I shoot paper only from 10 to 50 meters or so...
Larry
Going recoil-less seems to be the way to achieve the best springer accuracy.
The Giss system rifles do that with 2 opposing piston's, with examples being the Diana 65 and Hyscore 810 (hope I get all my model numbers right). Those are best suited to 10 or so meter shooting distances, because of modest power. They are no longer made, but occasionally show-up used.
+1 on the Diana “Giss guns,” they are amazing. The models were:
Barrel-cocking rifles, models 60, 65, and 66. The 60 has a ball-bearing breech detent, while the 65/66 is a slightly bigger action with a breech locking lever.
Fixed-barrel rifle, model 75. Sliding breech and sidelever which competed with the FWB springers back in the day.
Pistols, models 6 and 10. The 6 was an adaptation of the single-piston model 5 action, while the 10 was a full-race match gun that had a truly amazing trigger, more ergonomic grip and frame, and many other features.
Many of these were sold under other brand names - Original, RWS, Winchester, HyScore, Geco, Gecado, Beeman - and sometimes the model number was changed.
Years ago I had a .177 HW77 full length (not K) with the 25 mm compression tube. Foolishly, I sold it. That gun was an absolute needle threader, and was not at all pellet fussy. But like Mike said, the giss guns are probably some of the most accurate spring guns ever. I had a Model 66, with the somewhat odd angular stock. While many don't like it's appearance, the ergonomics of that gun seemed to suit my off-hand style perfectly. I miss them both.
Keith,
You are so right about the lower power. I started out shooting the TM1000 from the bench at 900 fps using JSB 10.3's. (Typical setting direct from Martin's shop). It was pretty accurate. Over time, I started using other pellets at different speeds. I finally ended up using the JSB 10.3's at 860 fps for 55 yds. and JSB 8.4's at a little under 800 fps at 55 yds. For the best accuracy, with very little wind, there is not much difference in accuracy. So then I changed to the 10.3's at 860 fps. figuring it would do better in a stiff wind.
My best setup shooting from my shed out back and shooting from the bench at 55 yds. with low wind and higher wind (10-15 mph) and using a 1" bell target has turned out to be 860 fps with the JSB 10.3 pellets. If I then do my job lining up the shot and squeezing the trigger properly, I can put 10 shots inside the KZ over and over.
I did leave out that I was using a Nikko 10-50 scope at 50X. Another thing worth noting is that the TM1000 was within 10 fps+/- over 80 shots with a fill of 3,000 . I quit counting due to writers cramp and had run out of toes and fingers.
Wish I could that from the required positions. Hard to do, even from the bench.
Looking forward to seeing you at Baton Rouge in April.
Pat
Would this have attached itself to your post, if I had used Quote, instead of reply?
I'd put the recoilless match springer rifles (FWB 150/300 and RWS 75's) in another category....not sure what they'd cost to make NEW today,but would have to go head to head with match grade PCP's to be fair.
You wouldn't think that lightening could strike 20 times in a row....but evidently it is possible, even with a cheap ($100 when the sold off the last of the plastic stocked CZ 634's) springer.
(YEah...I painted it gray)
Of course, it's going on 4 years and lightening hasn't struck 20 times in a row again. It's more like this:
(Its on 1/4" graph paper if you want to measure the groups):
I don't really think comparing a $$$PCP with a $ springer is totally fair....if you want to compare your $800- $2000PCP to a springer, then compare it to one that's at the very upper end of springers.
But I do have a PCP that cost $100 when I bought it, so that's equal in closet to the CZ springer of the same time.. (today,there are several $200 and under PCP's you could use to compare to a "cheap springer").
Flying Dragons PCP was $100 back then....and it would (and still will) shoot at least as well with a lot less effort on my part.
Does have a 3-(X scope (the Springer uses a fixed 4X) so you can expect some advantage there (not much of one at 20 yards):
OK..a lot more energy...but still the same basic short range accuracy.
With the springer, a little bit of inattention will results in a hole way away from the group. With the more forgiving PCP,the same amount of inattention is worth about a pellet diameter.
So I do agree...PCP's are going to shoot a lot better over the long haul...even comparing cheap-to-cheap. And because of their power factor, and ability to launch heavy/high BC pellets,are going to out shoot springers at longer range.
Same cheap-PCP at a 40 yard trial:
I just haven't had the heart to try the CZ springer on paper at 40 yards....I've tried,but after 4 or 5 shots,know it's a hopeless cause.
Accuracy is a relative concept for airguns that depends on power and distance. At 6 fpe obviously the match springers will win hands down, and at 18 fpe perhaps the Diana 54 will outshoot all production springers.
But in that optimal 12-15 fpe zone I have never shot a springer more accurate, more pleasant to shoot than a Mk1 25mm tube HW77( long barrelled version). John Thomas tuned an excellent springer into a perfect springer-- probably the most perfect airgun I have ever had. John, post tuning, shot a 5 shot group at 30 yards with it that is smaller than most pcp groups I have seen-- about .7 moa ctc from what I remember.
Personally I value offhand practical accuracy over bench accuracy. In that department the HW77 outshines almost all other airguns-- pcps included-- that I have. I can shoot 12 g CO2 cartridges at 35 yards standing with a fair consistency with the HW77. The only other airgun with which I can do it that consistently is a tuned and regulated AA S410. The HW77 offers the optimal balance of sporter type shootability and match rifle type precision.
I would have to say that my Hy-Score 810M (similar to the Diana 60) recoiless match air rifle is the most accurate, as well as the most pleasant air rifle that I own... I found it used and dirty and hiding in the back room of a local pawn shop several years ago.
It was resurrected by Ed Kryznowek (ekmeister) with new Maccari springs and seals... I mainly shoot it indoors on my basement airgun range.
My FWB300SU is also one of the most accurate, but I think I enjoy the 810M more, even though it is a break-barrel.
For longer distances, my .177 TX200 is definitely the most accurate of all my other springers.
I also have an older HW77K in .20 that I bought from an estate sale, that is amazingly accurate.
Scopes definitely help with the accuracy too, especially the older I get.
Here's a photo of my 810M.
Thanks all for the info.
I would like to see more pics....especially of the older, vintage air rifles. I don't know much about the breadth of air rifles and what's been available in the past. I know there's some that I've seen in pics that are just stunning. I love the FWB300 rifles too. Thank you all for posting them.
Sometimes when I go looking for models for sale, I'll run across FWB 600 series rifles and I wouldn't mind having one of those, but that is stepping into the PCP game, which is a whole other ball of wax and would take $1,000 to get into the PCP game and buy a USED FWB 600. I simply don't have that kind of disposable income to part with for an air rifle.
Hey all,
Just curious. What Spring rifle is the most accurate you have ever seen?
I shoot paper only from 10 to 50 meters or so...
Larry
Going recoil-less seems to be the way to achieve the best springer accuracy.
The Giss system rifles do that with 2 opposing piston's, with examples being the Diana 65 and Hyscore 810 (hope I get all my model numbers right). Those are best suited to 10 or so meter shooting distances, because of modest power. They are no longer made, but occasionally show-up used.
The FWB300S uses a sliding sled system I believe, but power is also modest. Used is how you'll find them.
The TX200SR SHOULD also give good accuracy using a sled system but with more power than the classic 10 meter rifles, but I never hear them mentioned for some reason. I don't believe they're made anymore.
Another sled system performer with plenty of power for 50 meters is the RWS 54 (thumbhole version is 56TH), and you should be able to find one of those.
The last rifles I'll mention are those made by John Whiscombe with part numbers starting "JW"--his initials. They're not made anymore either, but you may find a used specimen. The price will typically be very-high, to reflect their original price and now their rarity. They have enough power for 50 meters. The recoil was omitted also by 2 pistons cancelling out each other's mass-inertia, but with piston's that faced each other contrasted to the 2 piston's traveling in opposite directions on the Giss rifles.
A footnote would be that the Giss system shooters were also available in pistol form. I forget the part numbers of those.
HTH.
Just a quick historical footnote here...Herr Giss’s patent was actually for pistons moving TOWARD each other. It is Mr. Whiscombe who made the true “Giss gun,” and Diana who turned the idea wrong-side-out!
The Diana M54 in .22 cal. Only one mention of it in this thread so far as I can suss out.
My personal Diana M54 in .22 has a record of 17 pellets through the same hole at 50 feet (15.25 metres). That was from a sandbag with a 18x Bushnell Trophy scope. An indoor pin type target scoring gauge for .22 cal read either 0.11 or 0.00 depending on your system for sizing a group. On the 18th shot my pellet clipped the original hole edge at 2 o'clock. Pellet was Crosman Premier in the brown box.
That is an accurate springer, and powerful to boot.
As a side note I should mention that one of our Veteran shooters sent to the Golden Age Games in 2016 used a Daisy 853 SSP in .177 that outshot all the springers, SSPs, MPPs, CO2s, and PCPs at the competition. I did a PilkGun trigger mod and got her the rifle a week before the competition because her HW30s went bad just before the trip. Just mention it as an example of how the shooter is as much to consider as the power plant.
Walther LGU 12 FPE model with custom field target stock is the most accurate. I have a HW97K and FWB 300 as well.
As a side note I should mention that one of our Veteran shooters sent to the Golden Age Games in 2016 used a Daisy 853 SSP in .177 that outshot all the springers, SSPs, MPPs, CO2s, and PCPs at the competition. I did a PilkGun trigger mod and got her the rifle a week before the competition because her HW30s went bad just before the trip. Just mention it as an example of how the shooter is as much to consider as the power plant.
I have a 753 with the Pilkington trigger mod, and it is hands down the most accurate rifle I have ever owned. In my hands, it has out-shot an FWB300S, Diana 66, Walther LGR, Anschutz 250, Tau 200, Haenel 3.121, and ANYTHING else I can throw against it. Granted, there are range limitations, but if I were ever shooting for money on the line, I'd pick my Daisy.
Not really springer-related, but I had to mention. 🙂
Thanks all for the info.
I would like to see more pics....especially of the older, vintage air rifles. I don't know much about the breadth of air rifles and what's been available in the past. I know there's some that I've seen in pics that are just stunning. I love the FWB300 rifles too. Thank you all for posting them.
Sometimes when I go looking for models for sale, I'll run across FWB 600 series rifles and I wouldn't mind having one of those, but that is stepping into the PCP game, which is a whole other ball of wax and would take $1,000 to get into the PCP game and buy a USED FWB 600. I simply don't have that kind of disposable income to part with for an air rifle.
The FWB 600 is a SSP or Single Stroke Pneumatic, NOT a PCP.
You may be thinking of a FWB 500, 700 or 800, all of which are PCPs
I love springers! Love 'em much more than PCPs. Went to an airgun festival weekend held by Chasmyears ago. I shot over 500 pellets in the 2 days there. Crank and shoot . . crank and shoot . . . crank and shoot. What fun!
The Good Old Days with Tim Johnston's Autumn Airgun Fun and Chasm's Airgunstock. I miss the old group!
David Enoch
To get back on subject, I have owned a couple or may be three FWB 300S rifles. I used to shoot 1/4" and 3/16" spinners shot after shot at 20 yards off of a knee riser. It was just amazing. I would always eventually get tired of the weight and sell them. But, they are a constant temptation. I wouldn't mind finding another lefty 300S but now I have a FWB P70 JR that fills the same role and is much lighter.
David Enoch
I've owned at least 50 springers, (probably twice that, I just can't bring them all to mind at the moment) including a 300 s , HW 77, and Diana 54 . The RWS 75 was the most accurate. A bit more velocity than the 300s, and nothing moves when you fire (well, there's stuff inside moving, but you can't tell )
Why don't I still own the 75? Because any of a dozen co2 rifles will do the same thing, as will some SSP's (at a somewhat lower velocity) and most PCP's (at quite a bit higher velocity) A Giss system gun is a serious challenge to work on, and I like to be able to fix any gun I own. It's not fun for me to own a gun I dread tearing into, or one can't improve.
The most accurate rifle that I personally own, is a Feinwerkbau model 300 made in 1969. Not the later and better-known 300S, but the longer-barreled 300 which was only made for a few years.
Plain beech stock, not awesome to look at, but a real shooter. After a Randy Bimrose re-build, it shoots well north of 650 FPS with light ammo, is not pellet-picky at all (very much in contrast to the 300S’s that I own), and is so accurate that it’s almost creepy. It’s as if the thing can read my mind...my intentions for the shot seem to override where I’m actually pointing it!
Well not REALLY, LOL...but it is a fabulous rifle. I own HW 55’s, Walther LGV’s, Diana double-piston guns, and several 300S’s, but this one is the king of my little hill.
FWB 300s, Diana 75, RWS 54 and 56 are the most accurate spring rifles I have ever shot.
I don't need to try hard to shoot these above mentioned guns accurately all of the time.
Next best bunch of accurate shooting spring rifles that I have shot when I had my "game on" compared to the above mentioned are the Beeman R7, HW77k, HW97k,TX200, Walther LGV Competition Ultra, and FWB124. I wouldn't be able to shoot any of these other guns consistently if I had an "off day". Then I just go and shoot one of the above mentioned guns or a decent PCP at the very least my Benjamin Discovery then all is well again in this world.
HA
James it looks like you bought another 54. My 1st 54 was a 22 cal. I payed $300 for it in the parking lot of Bass pro Shop. Still have it and its accurate. Never shot it 80 yards though. Lots of of airguns and particularly 10 meter gun are accurate out to 20 yards or even farther with zero wind..
