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MDriskill
(@mdriskill)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 172
June 26, 2018 06:24:17  

The thread mentioning Silver Jets below got me to thinking. Most of us who’ve been airgunning for a while, have had the experience of having a favorite pellet suddenly become unavailable. What was yours?

For me, the answer is easy: the “red tin” .177 caliber Eley Wasp.

This was a short-bodied, round-head pellet that weighed about 7.3 grains, and had head and skirt diameters (the latter around .182”) that worked with just about everything. Eley is a famous maker of match-grade firearm ammo of course, and in its day the same standard of care was applied to the Wasp. The tin-to-tin consistency, in both weight and dimensions, was INCREDIBLE. You could just open a fresh tin and go to work with no worries at all.

They were particularly good in lower-powered spring-piston guns. A P1, R7, or Diana 27 was consistent pure pleasure when fed a Wasp diet.

At some point Eley sold production rights for the Wasp to another company, and the quality immediately went down, as they stretched dies beyond their intended life. Eventually they were discontinued entirely.

If there is a modern equivalent, it may be the JSB-made Air Arms Falcon, also a lighter-weight round-head. I’ve had wonderful luck with those, though their smaller skirt diameter is not suited to as many guns.


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airmojo
(@airmojo)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 226
June 26, 2018 07:27:26  

Well, speaking of the Eley Wasp pellets, I'm very fond of the old .22 (5.56mm) Eley Wasp pellets.

They shoot great in my R1 and HW95.

A local airgun shop always had a great supply of pellets, but sadly the shop closed several years ago.

I would take special trips there at lunchtime breaks from work, that was not too far away.

I would always buy a selection of pellets, trying different ones, and buying my favorites.

Even after the old .22 Wasps were no longer available, the shop owner seemed to always find old stocks still available... so I would buy as many tins as he would sell me, often only two tins, so he could have some available for other customers... but I would be back in two or three weeks, and get some more.

I took a several years break from airgunning after I retired, to catch up on work, and pursue a couple other hobbies, although I did shoot occasionally for a few minutes in my basement range.

I was admiring my pellet stash just the other day... which reminds me that I need to update my will !

Airgun Pellet Stash 2018

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tsspress
(@tsspress)
Banned
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June 26, 2018 09:17:28  

www.tsspress.com 😀

nice,i maded. 22cal pellets, its accuracy and specifications are very good,

thumbnail Screen Shot 2018 06 05 at 08.29.21
thumbnail Screen Shot 2018 06 05 at 08.29.09
thumbnail image1
WechatIMG86

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airmojo
(@airmojo)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 226
June 26, 2018 10:31:36  
Posted by: tsspress

www.tsspress.com 😀

nice,i maded. 22cal pellets, its accuracy and specifications are very good,

Wow! What the heck is that, and where did you get it ?

And how does it work ?

Looks like a chopped-off grease gun !


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Gratewhitehuntr
(@gratewhitehuntr)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 803
June 26, 2018 10:44:48  
 
Posted by: airmojo

Wow! What the heck is that, and where did you get it ?

 

 

It was only a couple clicks into their website (also username hehe 1 post)

http://www.tsspress.com/hand-airgun-pellet-press-convenient-bullets-produce-machines-22cal

 

 

 

Wow... I can hoard a bucket of Meisterkugeln for $400!

Are those going away? (OMG the itch just started)

 

 

 those wasp tins are a lovely blue.....

 


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Steve in NC
(@steve-in-nc)
Dealer
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 358
June 26, 2018 11:21:54  
Posted by: tsspress

www.tsspress.com 😀

nice,i maded. 22cal pellets, its accuracy and specifications are very good,

Watched the video.  It took only 50 seconds (from time mark 0:12 to 1:02) to make two pellets.  That's "only" 3&1/2 hours for one tin of 500.

What fun!   😀 


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Jim in SWMO
(@jim-in-swmo)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 267
June 26, 2018 11:23:55  

This should be an interesting topic. Thanks for posting the question, Mike. I'll be following this to see what the favorites were. Unfortunately, my answer isn't as "exotic" as others will be, lol.

Growing up in a small town in farm country there wasn't many choices for pellets. To the best of my memory, the local hardware store only carried three brands. Those were Crosman wadcutters, the Benjamin HC (High Compression) domes, and a brand called National. (I can't remember if the National pellets were a domed pellet or a wadcutter.) Of the three, the Benjamins were by far the best available, in .177 or .22. They just seemed to work well in most of the airguns we had available to us at the time, which was mostly pump guns like the Tootsie Roll Benjamin and the Crosman guns.

It wasn't until the early 80's that I heard about Beeman or RWS pellets. Once I got a hold of some of the RWS pellets the Benjamin HCs kind of got pushed to the side and forgotten, lol.

I still have most of a 250ct tin of the .177 Benjamin HCs left. There have been times when I wanted to try them in something but was afraid to for fear they might be the best for that gun and are no longer available, lol. Often wish they would make them again, if for nothing more than nostalgia. But who knows, they might be a good pellet for today's guns, too.

IMG 0620 1

BTW, that white stuff you can see on the pellets isn't oxidation, it's the original lube that came on the pellets. These, along with some early 80's vintage RWS pellets and yellow box Sheridans, have been kept in an air tight ammo can since the 80's and look almost like they did when new.

 

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JiminPGH
(@jiminpgh)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 464
June 26, 2018 13:15:27  

I miss the old style Gamo Match and Hunter pellets in .177.  The cavity in the skirts used to taper to a point.  The newer ones have a flat bottom.  I don't know why, but they don't seem to shoot as well as the old ones in my guns that like those pellets.


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sonnysan
(@sonnysan)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 264
June 26, 2018 14:08:53  

Another class of pellet that should also be addressed is 10M shooting.  Out of all the 10M pellets out there, the tightest and most consistent I've tried right out of the tin are Vogel green label.  I've tried them all too, from R10 to the infamous Nygord's.  This goes for all the SSP's I own, from various flavors of FWB 300's and 600's.  

http://vogelusa.com/pellets.html

 

 


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DavidEnoch
(@davidenoch)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 361
June 26, 2018 16:34:38  

Which brand and model were the larger diameter pellets that used to fit the Webley's oversize breach?

David Enoch


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JW652
(@jw652)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 72
June 26, 2018 17:48:56  

   That is easy for me. The pellets I miss most are the original Brit bore size, red and blue tin Wasps and all of the original, Bob Holz designed, Brown Box (lift off lid) Premier pellets. When the original CP pellets were being designed, Bob would come to major FT events with free test samples and record user feedback. The result were perfect pellets, made on a single die that could be reliably shot straight from the box. Unfortunately lax QC and mass marketing mentality of Crosman has left us with only memories of what was, IMHO, the finest domed pellets produced in my lifetime. I still have some of those samples and  boxes, including some with no die number (date only) which indicates that they were the very first die ever made and preceed those marked die No. 1. Would pay a lot of money to have more of those truly "Premier" pellets.


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JW652
(@jw652)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 72
June 26, 2018 17:56:55  

   David - the early Webley bores were Brit bore sizes 1 (.177), 2 (.22), and, 3 (.25). Eley made the 1s and 2s before the name was sold and the new production became metric. The .25s were produced by several Brit companies. I have a few extra tins of .25s , if you need them, but won't part with my Eleys!   Steve


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MDriskill
(@mdriskill)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 172
June 26, 2018 22:27:40  
Posted by: DavidEnoch

Which brand and model were the larger diameter pellets that used to fit the Webley's oversize breach?

David Enoch

David, those were the “blue tin” Wasps as illustrated above. They were made to fit the old British “no. 2 bore” which was a true 22/100 inch, or 5.6 mm (most modern pellets are made  to 5.5 mm of course).

I have a few tins of those I hoard for my Webley Mk 3’s (and would love to find more). It is completely pointless to shoot 5.5’s in them, always inaccurate and rough-shooting as they seal the barrel so poorly.

The pellets that Webley sold under their own name were also 5.6 mm, and no doubt other older UK makes of pellets were, as well.


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MDriskill
(@mdriskill)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 172
June 27, 2018 06:37:50  
Posted by: Jim in SWMO

Growing up in a small town in farm country there wasn't many choices for pellets. To the best of my memory, the local hardware store only carried three brands. Those were Crosman wadcutters, the Benjamin HC (High Compression) domes, and a brand called National. (I can't remember if the National pellets were a domed pellet or a wadcutter.) Of the three, the Benjamins were by far the best available, in .177 or .22. They just seemed to work well in most of the airguns we had available to us at the time, which was mostly pump guns like the Tootsie Roll Benjamin and the Crosman guns.

 

 

Jim, that’s a great one! I know I’ve shot more Benjamin HC’s in my life than any other pellet by far. Santa brought my tootsie-roll Benjy .177 347 in 1968 and I totally wore it out for years! That rifle-pellet combo made me an airgun addict forever.

I too grew up in a small town and the only pellets I ever saw were Benjamin, Crosman, and Sheridan. I had a friend with a BSF S20 pistol and exotic RWS pellets, LOL. If not for him (and his dad’s Herter’s catalogs) I would not have known “foreign” ammo even existed.

My younger brother had a Blue Streak (both guns are still around and work fine BTW). We did a lot of shooting together and we always felt the 347 was the more accurate by far. Part of this was cuz we didn’t know how to adjust the Streak sight’s windage, LOL, but I do think the HC pellets were more accurate than the Sheridan yellow box .20 slugs, which never shot well in his rifle (we would often find where they’d hit our backstop flying sideways or even backwards). We never knew how accurate the Sheridan was until we fed it some proper diabolos years later...


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Jim in SWMO
(@jim-in-swmo)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 267
June 27, 2018 10:02:07  

Hi Mike. I don't think the yellow box Sheridan cylindricals shot all that well in anything, lol. Although back in the day I did manage to take a lot of rabbits and squirrels with them and my Blue Streak.

A few years ago while shooting the Streak the sun was at just the right angle to watch the pellets in flight to the target. I was really surprised at how many of them corkscrewed their way there! After seeing that it made me wonder how many of the rabbits and squirrels I harvested with those pellets were lucky shots. The only explanations I could come up with for those good shots while hunting were that I had either loaded a "good" pellet that flew (relatively) straight or that I was at the right distance for the corkscrew effect to coincide with the POA. Either way, that day of target shooting with those old pellets was an eye opener!


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Timinator
(@timinator)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 11
June 27, 2018 10:13:26  

Beeman Silver Jets and original Crossman Premier's in .20. 


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MagicNumber
(@jcarl)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 67
June 27, 2018 12:20:09  

Crosman premiers in .20 brown Box die #2


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MDriskill
(@mdriskill)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 172
June 27, 2018 19:10:26  
Posted by: sonnysan

Another class of pellet that should also be addressed is 10M shooting.  Out of all the 10M pellets out there, the tightest and most consistent I've tried right out of the tin are Vogel green label.  I've tried them all too, from R10 to the infamous Nygord's.  This goes for all the SSP's I own, from various flavors of FWB 300's and 600's.  

http://vogelusa.com/pellets.html

 

 

That’s very interesting! The best bulk-packed flathead pellets I’ve ever used are RWS R-10’s, but I’ve never tried Vogels. Definitely on my list now...!


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ekmeister
(@ekmeister)
Member of Trade
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 663
June 27, 2018 20:06:05  

The original version of the .22 caliber blue-tinned Eley Wasp pellets shot better than anything else in my 'pellet-picky' .22 caliber R1.  The Beeman Field Target Specials (H&N Field Target Trophy) were almost as good, but not quite.  When the US supply of the Eley Wasp pellet dried up, I bought 10 tins of them directly from the UK and had them shipped here--the shipping price wasn't that bad when you viewed it as being divided by 10.

Unfortunately, I had to sell the R1 4 or 5 years ago to fund a move so I don't exactly have the same need for them anymore.  I say it that way, because, since I still tune air rifles for others, and test for accuracy when I do, I wish I still had them in my tool box to try on anyone's .22 caliber rifle. 

I had one customer whose .177 caliber RWS 34 liked the original red-tinned version of the Eley Wasp, so I bought a lot of them for him.  Their replacement wasn't as good in his rifle, looking more like a Gamo Hunter pellet to me (although I do own a rifle that likes the Gamo Hunters, so I'm not saying they're no good, just different).  Now the original version of the red-tinned Wasp is gone too.

I also liked the HC Benjamin pellets dating back a couple of decades, and I shot quite a few of them out of my .22 caliber Crosman 2200 MSP.  Just looking at them back then in either caliber you could see they were very-well-made, so I'd also like to be able to test them after performing a tune.  The .177 version offered something special that made them very-suitable for testing: they were a little over-sized/large for the caliber, so if you had a gun that gave a loose fit with other pellets, you had a chance of getting a good fit and thus better performance from the Benjamins.


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Derrick
(@derrick)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 18
June 27, 2018 21:09:30  

The Marksman Field Target Specials always worked well for me in .177, .20 and .22 .  Then there were those cool Vortex Lamprey hollowpoints...


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r1lover
(@r1lover)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 39
June 27, 2018 21:55:33  

Well Mike, you mentioned them.....the Silver Jets were, but not because of their performance.  What a sexy looking pellet!  They were the stuff dreams were made of when I was dreaming about buying my first R1.  When that mail order package arrived in 1987 it included a bunch of Silver Jets.  Reality was they didn't shoot particularly well in my gun and I put the whole lot in the back of my safe for many years, dipping into them on very few occasions.   Some time ago a fella on the AA site was in want of some and I sold him all I had.  He made me a crazy high offer which I turned down, instead selling them to him for what it cost me to replace them with a similar number of Beeman Kodiaks, which shot much better in my gun.


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Montivagant
(@montivagant)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 11
June 29, 2018 16:06:44  

As a tender youth, used to prowl the creaky old oak floors of the local hardware store just to glimpse those Tootsie Roll Benjies in the rack.  Finally saved enough from my paper route to buy a 5mm Blue Streak.  Swatted lots of starlings with those old cylindrical pellets until the Silver Jets were available by mail order from Beeman.  Went on to a 124D around 1976 and bought a case of SJ's in a package deal.  Still have about a dozen unopened boxes.  A truck load of starlings went to the Pearly Gates from that 124D squirtin' SJ's.  Hopefully, St. Starling isn't minding the Gates when I make my appearance....


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sonnysan
(@sonnysan)
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Posts: 264
June 29, 2018 17:29:53  

Buying Vogels by the sleeve is the only way to go.  I remember calling and asking what head size to buy for a 603.  Pretty sure it was the 4.50.  Keep in mind I was grouping these guns at 25 yards.  Also tried CPs/FTTs but they did not do as well as the wadcutters. 

Picture shows pre and post Wasp pellets.  The light colored red tin are the "new" ones.  They are definitely not the same pellet.  Got them from the "whole lotta lead" sale thinking they might be like the originals.  They shoot terrible.  

The Lazapells were purchased at the same time.  They look identical to a FTT pellet.  Probably re-badged lubed FTT.  They shoot incredibly well.

Never tried the Dianas, Silver Jets, real wasps, or Lamprey's.

IMG 20180629 122738

 


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MADDAWG
(@maddawg)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 5
June 29, 2018 21:25:31  

Know this long after the start of this thread.  Only get the computer weekends.

Back in the day (not that far back)- before Crosmans' truly 'Premier' Premiers came on the scene  -  the RWS SUPERDOME was the most common pellet used for comparison, pretty much world wide.

Best

 


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rgb1
 rgb1
(@rgb1)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 6
July 8, 2018 21:41:58  

This evening I set up a target  at 50 yd and shot two groups of five, one with the current 10.5 gr Crosman Premier and another with the same pellet from the 90's sold in the brown box. Like JW652 said........the best pellets ever made.

pic2
pic1

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airmojo
(@airmojo)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 226
July 8, 2018 21:50:41  

rgb1... doesn't get much better than that!

What air rifle were you shooting ?


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rgb1
 rgb1
(@rgb1)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 6
July 9, 2018 11:04:03  

Ken, it's something I built........

https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=138392.0

 

                                                                                           Ron


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airmojo
(@airmojo)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 226
July 9, 2018 14:27:45  

That's awesome Ron !

I can see where building your own PCP gun would be very rewarding, especially if you have the skills, tools, and know-how... and a big learning experience in many ways too !


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Skillet
(@skillet)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 45
July 10, 2018 22:43:19  

As a young shaver back in the '70s, the hardware stores only offered the Green-Can Benjy's, and those sketchy looking Super Pells.

I found the Benjamins to be the superior choice. They even shot accurately loaded backwards. Made a heckuva hollowpoint!

bagged alot of small game, and nations of turtles with the green can ammo


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ekmeister
(@ekmeister)
Member of Trade
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Posts: 663
July 11, 2018 00:36:46  
Posted by: Skillet

As a young shaver back in the '70s, the hardware stores only offered the Green-Can Benjy's, and those sketchy looking Super Pells.

I found the Benjamins to be the superior choice. They even shot accurately loaded backwards. Made a heckuva hollowpoint!

bagged alot of small game, and nations of turtles with the green can ammo

I swear I remember a time when you couldn't find a hardware store--no matter how far it was from any metropolis--that didn't carry the green tinned Crosman High Compression pellets.  At 'Grandpa Jake's Hardware, Farm, and Feed' you could always find that telltale green color catching your eye from inside the display case.  Long before a wider selection was available, I bet every kid or man who owned an air gun was shooting that one pellet.  Like I said in my above post, they were well-made and I wish they still produced them. 

Interestingly, the Eley Wasps looked very-similar in design to the Crosmans--at least in .22 caliber.  I can't remember if that was also true of them in .177 caliber or not.

 


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