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Hubtaxi
(@hubtaxi)
Joined: 2 weeks ago
Posts: 10
September 15, 2020 17:33:18  

Greetings from Newfoundland. Hope you are all staying safe.  I need some help to identify this strange 22 cal air gun.The only markings on it is;MARK 1 M& Co. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

20200914 224429
20200914 225922

 


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Gratewhitehuntr
(@gratewhitehuntr)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 907
September 15, 2020 18:26:40  

Roll mark done by hand? Interesting.

 

Unfortunately all my search discovered was that 20+ UK news sites are all owned by the same company, a bunch more in NZ, and that cats are people too.


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Hubtaxi
(@hubtaxi)
Joined: 2 weeks ago
Posts: 10
September 15, 2020 18:30:16  

Yes sir....I am getting the same results. 


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Gratewhitehuntr
(@gratewhitehuntr)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 907
September 15, 2020 19:07:31  
Posted by: @hubtaxi

Yes sir....I am getting the same results. 

Actually, I looked a couple more minutes, and discovered that not only are there dozens of sites being produced by the same people, but that these people have an agenda. Demonizing airguns, and it appears to have worked.

Snipers and amputees and blindings oh my!

"Amnesty: Chief constable Phil Gormley with surrendered weapons."  12,000 airguns from Scotland, turned in due to a new licensing strategy towards "Air Weapons". Noice!

Can I buy... um... three? Please? (LOL his actual name is Gormley!!!)

https://d34loos1pju571.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/archive-1358112-haul-of-12-000-airguns-handed-into-scots-police-in-three-weeks-1.jpg

 

But, I need new search terms if I am gonna find anything useful. Hmm... top-cocker?

How is it loaded? Are there any sort of sights?

The most important question, have you shot it over a chrony? 😉

How are the groups? Hobbys, CHP, or JSB heavies? 😉


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Bob in WV
(@bob-in-wv)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 217
September 15, 2020 19:27:03  

I have no idea what it is, but it is interesting for sure.  Please keep us posted what you find out.  I love the weird and unusual in guns and small tools.


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Hubtaxi
(@hubtaxi)
Joined: 2 weeks ago
Posts: 10
September 15, 2020 19:49:25  
20200914 225807

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Hubtaxi
(@hubtaxi)
Joined: 2 weeks ago
Posts: 10
September 15, 2020 19:50:57  

Loads from the top with a lever.


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KWK
 KWK
(@kwk)
Joined: 7 months ago
Posts: 111
September 15, 2020 20:24:15  

Gun laying teacher. BSA made some pre Great War. Perhaps some were made in Oz as well? If it is it's worth a small fortune. Very rare item. BSA only made about 200. 1915. All .177 caliber. The loading tap and retaining plate look like  BSA. Might be where they sourced some parts. Any stamping on the retaining plate? Patent number? Germans copied BSA loading tap around 1915 (Diana 58 Military ) however Diana used a keeper screw between the 2 retaining plate fixing screws. Not seen on your example. And how would a German gun laying teacher make it's way to Oz anyway? 

Gun laying teachers were still in use by the Armed Forces of New Zealand in 1953 to train tank crews. That version went inside the barrel instead of on top. Inside the barrel type were used WW2

 

I bet it's a gun laying teacher . Missing is the mounting carriage

That's why the cocking lever is on top. Look closely at the retaining plate for the patent stamping. That era should be the second type tap and retaining plate with a detent spring and pin as seen on post 1911 Improved Model D. 


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Hubtaxi
(@hubtaxi)
Joined: 2 weeks ago
Posts: 10
September 15, 2020 20:54:09  

Interesting theory  for sure. The retaining plate looks like someone screwed around with it and filled in the original holes. Unfortunately...apart from every part having a number...there are no other markings. Sure does look like early  BSA parts though. 


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Gratewhitehuntr
(@gratewhitehuntr)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 907
September 15, 2020 21:45:39  
Posted by: @kwk

I bet it's a gun laying teacher .

Could you expound on this a bit please? My search results for "gun laying teacher" were not germane to the thread.

The idea of training tank crews with springers totally screams "Bob Semple Tank!" From wiki... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Semple_tank

"The tanks were constructed without the use of any formal plans or blueprints. Working from an American postcard depicting the conversion of a tractor to a 'tractor-tank', Bob Semple and TG Beck (Christchurch District Works Engineer), improvised the design of the tanks."

May God have mercy on the Kiwis if those emus ever escape... but I digress... meanwhile, back a the ranch....

 

Posted by: @kwk

 And how would a German gun laying teacher make it's way to Oz anyway?

Posted by: @hubtaxi

Greetings from Newfoundland.

Newfoundland (/ ˈ nj uː f ən (d) l ə n d,-l æ n d, locally / ˌ nj uː f ən d ˈ l æ n d /; French: Terre-Neuve; Mi'kmaq: Taqamkuk) is a large island off the east coast of the North American mainland, and the most populous part of the Canadian province of Newfoundland and Labrador.

 

 

@ OP, how did you come across this item? Rummage sale? Attic?

Hit it with the riding mower in a field you'd been mowing for decades?


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Citizen K
(@citizen-k)
Administrator
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 503
September 15, 2020 23:49:59  
Posted by: @gratewhitehuntr

Could you expound on this a bit please? My search results for "gun laying teacher" were not germane to the thread.

https://forum.vintageairgunsgallery.com/vintage-bsa-airguns/rare-and-custom-vintage-bsa-lincoln-jeffries-airguns/#post-1344

https://forum.vintageairgunsgallery.com/rock-island-auctions/bsa-gun-laying-teacher/#post-3683


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KWK
 KWK
(@kwk)
Joined: 7 months ago
Posts: 111
September 16, 2020 01:00:51  

LOL! I didn't have my reading glasses on at first. I thought it read "New Zealand". 


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Citizen K
(@citizen-k)
Administrator
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 503
September 16, 2020 01:08:33  

@kwk

Nevertheless, the system was used even post war in NZ and Aus.


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Hubtaxi
(@hubtaxi)
Joined: 2 weeks ago
Posts: 10
September 16, 2020 06:31:26  

I am an antique dealer here for the past 38years. Got a call to clean out an estate.  In the basement piled up in one corner is this collection of miscellaneous old gun parts...mostly muzzle loader bits. Apparently..the old guy that died ,previous  home owner...was a gunsmith. The people I bought this stuff from purchased the house in the early 60s. Said their kids would take some of the old bits from the pile and play with them. I have since sold all the parts...but kept this because of it being so bizarre. Thought it might be something special. 


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Hubtaxi
(@hubtaxi)
Joined: 2 weeks ago
Posts: 10
September 16, 2020 09:44:34  

Here are some better pics. Cleaned it up a bit.

DSCF1415
DSCF1423
DSCF1418
DSCF1421
DSCF1417
DSCF1420
DSCF1419
DSCF1424
DSCF1416
DSCF1422

 


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Hubtaxi
(@hubtaxi)
Joined: 2 weeks ago
Posts: 10
September 16, 2020 09:45:10  

It is 18.75 inches long.


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Hubtaxi
(@hubtaxi)
Joined: 2 weeks ago
Posts: 10
September 16, 2020 10:42:38  

Turns out that it is a .177 cal. not 22


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oldair
(@oldair)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 26
September 16, 2020 11:23:05  

@hubtaxi

No question this one is weird!  There's no way to sight the target if used in the normal manner of shooting, and doesn't seem to be any way to attach a stock or pistol grip to hold on while pulling the trigger.  It gives me the impression of a 'prototype' exercise to see if the mechanism would function.

Don R.


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KWK
 KWK
(@kwk)
Joined: 7 months ago
Posts: 111
September 16, 2020 18:44:43  

https://www.pressreader.com/uk/air-gunner/20180601/281629600873933

More information about BSA gun laying teachers for anyone interested


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Harvey
(@harvey)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 123
September 16, 2020 18:59:17  

Does the cocking lever work backwards toward the shooter's body?


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Hubtaxi
(@hubtaxi)
Joined: 2 weeks ago
Posts: 10
September 16, 2020 19:35:13  

Yes...that's correct. 


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