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Chemclay
(@chemclay)
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 41
October 23, 2020 22:05:26  

I re-entered air gun shooting (mostly backyard) earlier this year. I would like to have a 20+ fpe gun for distance shooting. I need experienced info to decide which gun and which caliber.


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sonnysan
(@sonnysan)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 333
October 24, 2020 00:19:31  

I'll cut to the chase since you'll be receiving a lot of posts like this:

1.  Recommend a sub 20+ fpe springer, then tune.

If you are practical and want to pull the gun out of the box then start killing, this is it:

 

https://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Weihrauch_HW90_Breakbarrel_Air_Rifle/2358

 

.177 or .22 will be fine.  I use Baracuda's in the .177 and .22 FTT in the other. 

Buy a bkl260 one piece mount to keep the scope on it.  The RX series of guns are so effective that I'm desperate for new squirrels to move into the area. 

 


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Hotair
(@hotair)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 620
October 24, 2020 04:31:56  

22 caliber RWS model 54 or model 56. Realistic 100 yard capable shooters for sure. Nothing can reliably hit stuff out past 100 yards in the Springer category besides these 2 that are currently made.


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Doug Wall
(@doug-wall)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 158
October 24, 2020 08:21:35  
Posted by: @chemclay

I reentered air gun shooting(mostly backyard)earlier this year. I would like to have a 20+ fpe gun for distance shooting. I need experienced info to decide which gun and which caliber.

Distance shooting at what??? If you're punching paper, hitting cans, or steel targets, your requirements are going to be different than if you are trying to shoot Woodchucks.

 


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Chemclay
(@chemclay)
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 41
October 24, 2020 08:53:46  

I shoot targets; shotgun, rifle, pistol. I quit hunting when our pheasants disappeared. I rediscovered air guns and my backyard during "lockdown". In April, I bought a HW 50s, in July, a HW 97k both in .177. I shoot both between 10 and 50 yards and enjoy the distance challenge. This is a great sport. I'd like to be able to shoot out to 75+ yards, but have no interest in PCPs.


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timjohnston
(@timjohnston)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 77
October 24, 2020 13:21:33  

You have been infected with the magnumitest bug. Very costly but curable. 50 yards in not "distance shooting" with a springer. Any quality springing will do the trick, just follow Sonnysan's advice about a well tuned gun in sub 20ft lbs. The HW97 has been hitting small round holes at 55 yards in FT for a very long time. In NRA air rifle silhouettes the rams have fallen at 45 yards for many years as well. Silhouette is shot off hand standing. For you early Yellow forum members, what was the guy's name in California who had ton's of kill's at up to 70 yards on ground squirrel's with a R7 in .177?  Don't let power blind you to what a proper tuned and glassed 800-875 fps gun will do with the correct pellets. And don't overlook the performance of the .20 caliber. I have 2 tuned .20 cal springer's. A HW97 and a original RWS 34 both will shoot sub 1 inch groups at 50 yards. Good luck.

 

tim

.

 


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straitflite
(@straitflite)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 286
October 24, 2020 14:07:08  
Posted by: @timjohnston

For you early Yellow forum members, what was the guy's name in California who had ton's of kill's at up to 70 yards on ground squirrel's with a R7 in .177?

Robert Hamilton I think you are referring to. He was ostracized by many members for his claims. He was a good writer IMO. As to his creditability, I myself thought how could much of that be? What is the available energy left from an R7 at those ranges? I don't outright dispute publicly without proof though, to that which 'I' do not understand.

To be that accurate (with enough FPE) it seems like a challenge to cover all the various ranges without some serious holdover or much precise clicking of the turret.

How much energy is left from an R7/HW30 at 70yds? Heavy .177's seem to be the way to go but in my mind something much greater than an R7. Having said that, I wouldn't mind at all being proven wrong.


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marflow
(@marflow)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 1023
October 24, 2020 16:02:57  

a Diana 350 could work for you, you can put a kit in them to go up or down 

and when you fire them you know it 

they can be hold sensitive but practice will solve that problem 

make sure it has the T01 trigger not the  T05 that are on sale 

it is and mans rifle 

https://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Diana_RWS_350_Magnum/396#9413


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boscoebrea
(@boscoebrea)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 279
October 24, 2020 16:10:33  

Thank you for asking,I will put my 40 years of experience of  shooting springers forward for you.

   My most powerful stock springer is the RWS model 52,the 48 is the same....177.A side lever,that is also accurate.

  Do not believe 100 yd. shooting with any springer,you are going to have trouble at 25 yds. until you have a lot of practice.

  My English made Tomahawk.22 is another accurate powerful springer,very hard to obtain now.

  HW97.22 great springer,always available, it is an under lever.

  R9...another great springer...

 How strong are you?Do you have enough patience to become proficient in shooting a springer at a long distance,if so chose one of the above springers.

  Now .177 or .22...for powerful springers I like .22 because It can shoot heavier pellets =which tend to calm down the shooting cycle.

  A .177 can be better for longer distance shooting.

 Do not forget a good  springer scope and mounts.

 The Tomahawk would be my first pick,put you can't get an English made one now,the HW97 is my second pick,the 52 for shooting game...the R9 was my favorite for years and you can't go wrong with it.

  I have a lot more springers... the less powerful ones can be just as much fun....

   The object is trying to become proficient before frustration brings a halt to your patience.


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Chemclay
(@chemclay)
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 41
October 24, 2020 17:57:41  
Posted by: @timjohnston

You have been infected with the magnumitest bug. Very costly but curable. 50 yards in not "distance shooting" with a springer. Any quality springing will do the trick, just follow Sonnysan's advice about a well tuned gun in sub 20ft lbs. The HW97 has been hitting small round holes at 55 yards in FT for a very long time. In NRA air rifle silhouettes the rams have fallen at 45 yards for many years as well. Silhouette is shot off hand standing. For you early Yellow forum members, what was the guy's name in California who had ton's of kill's at up to 70 yards on ground squirrel's with a R7 in .177?  Don't let power blind you to what a proper tuned and glassed 800-875 fps gun will do with the correct pellets. And don't overlook the performance of the .20 caliber. I have 2 tuned .20 cal springer's. A HW97 and a original RWS 34 both will shoot sub 1 inch groups at 50 yards. Good luck.

 

tim

.

 

Do air guns have to be tuned to shoot well? I have shot sub one inch groups at 50 yds with both my 50s and 97k(neither tuned); I would love to send a 14 gr pellet at 850fps. The price and specs of some air guns should indicate they can do it; but I don't know.


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Bill S.
(@tripleguy)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 327
October 24, 2020 23:28:35  

I mostly shoot at 80 yards. That's the distance from my deck to the wood line where I have a couple bell targets and can put up paper as well. 

I shoot a Beeman R1, Beeman R10 both in .177 cal. English Webley Tomahawk in .25 cal. Diana 35 and 27 in .177. You can do it but you obviously need to account for the drop a little differently with each rifle. Most of my rifles are zeroed at 25 yards and I use mil dot scopes. I also have a PCP in .22 cal that is zeroed at 80 yards.


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timjohnston
(@timjohnston)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 77
October 25, 2020 01:46:46  

@chemclay . No they do not, but they will shoot better (Smoother) 9 out of 10 tunes are done for smoothness.  Once you go down that  Rabbit hole (Tuned Springer) you will not go back. The gun is not anymore accurate than it was un-tuned, it is just that more pleasant to shoot. Evan a home tune is a vast improvement. If you feel comfortable taking a spring gun down (Lot's of good vids and help here and online elsewhere). A simple cleaning and lubing with surprise you. If you want to delve in to it, the hw50 is the perfect first candidate. Get a JM tune kit and lubes.


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timjohnston
(@timjohnston)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 77
October 25, 2020 01:50:04  

@straitflite Correct Robert Hamilton was his name. I also remember the crap he caught. Seems there was a witness to his shooting  just before he quit posting.

 

 

tim

 


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Hector J Medina G
(@hector-j-medina-g)
Member of Trade
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 558
October 25, 2020 09:23:30  
Posted by: @chemclay

I reentered air gun shooting(mostly backyard)earlier this year. I would like to have a 20+ fpe gun for distance shooting. I need experienced info to decide which gun and which caliber.

Chemclay;

Thanks for opening a new thread.

If you have recently come back to airgunning, perhaps you might want to read this:

https://www.ctcustomairguns.com/hectors-airgun-blog/its-all-about-accuracy  

It will detail the accuracy requirements for different forms of shooting. Though the article is some years old, it still holds plenty good info.

Most of the improvements in the last years have been in the pellets, so the requirements have not changed but now there are more pellets that can meet those requirements.

In all fairness, it is NOT a question of shooting the occasional 1 MOA 50 yards group. Shooting that's Accurate enough for hunting or competition requires CONSISTENCY. And it is usually the case that it is easier for most shooters to acquire consistency with a lower powered springer than with a real magnum.

With enough practice you CAN become proficient and consistent with almost any gun, it's just more enjoyable and easily attainable with a tuned gun.

Now, the EXCEPTION, is the sled equipped guns (FWB300, DIANA 54 and DIANA 56) that make it easy on the shooter (but hard on the scopes). Without the felt recoil, it is easier to practice and practice and practice.

In particular, the D54 (AirKing Pro in its current version), is VERY capable of shooting out to 100 yards in 0.22" with the right pellet and even in an OEM condition, as long as the "running in" process has been carefully done.

I DOUBT GREATLY that, even if the 54 is your first gun it will be your last, LOL! But I like suggesting it as a starting point because it is easy for practiced firearms shooters to shoot well with one. My experience is that shooters that start with a 54 will go on to shoot a number of other airguns, just to return to the 54 after some years.

Some shooters never shoot a 54, they are not cheap, they are heavy, powerful and require some measure of physical fitness to operate in full power mode, but those that are in good physical shape and can handle it, seldom go back to other airguns for serious pursuits.

I've been shooting most anything that can be shot from the shoulder for over 50 years, and airguns for the last 20. Teaching and coaching shooters for almost as long. A professional gunsmith for the last 7 years, I have customized most quality airguns at different power levels and for different objectives. So, I usually start my projects for customers with a single question:

"Exactly WHAT you want the gun to do?"

 

Of course, opinions are worth what you pay for them, so this is my $0.02 worth.

 

Keep well and shoot straight!

 

 

 

 

HM

 


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Harvey
(@harvey)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 140
October 25, 2020 10:15:27  

I believe Robert Hamilton shot an HW55, mostly.

Wasn't it Tom Jue who shot with him?  Seem to recall reading a page on the old Airgun Letter which had a few hunt storiess by them.  Although if I also remember correctly, Tom Jue shot a '57 Sheridan.  Rabbit story maybe?

 


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Chemclay
(@chemclay)
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 41
October 25, 2020 12:55:59  

"Exactly WHAT do you want the gun to do?"

Great question I can actually answer. I've been shooting my two HWs out to 50 m. I would like a "springer" that can shoot accurately out to ~80 m. I don't want to modify or smith the gun. I would rather pay fairly for an out of box gun that meets my needs.


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SteveP
(@stevep)
Joined: 4 months ago
Posts: 56
October 25, 2020 13:34:31  
Posted by: @chemclay

"Exactly WHAT do you want the gun to do?"

Great question I can actually answer. I've been shooting my two HWs out to 50 m. I would like a "springer" that can shoot accurately out to ~80 m. I don't want to modify or smith the gun. I would rather pay fairly for an out of box gun that meets my needs.

HW90 .22 should do everything you're wanting one to 🙂


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Chemclay
(@chemclay)
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 41
October 25, 2020 13:53:33  

HW90 .22 should do everything you're wanting one to 🙂

thought about that, but I've heard it called a "horse"; very hard to cock, and needs $500 worth of pumping equipment to regulate it.it


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josh3rd
(@josh3rd)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 225
October 25, 2020 15:25:40  

From my experiences shooting at a hundred yards with air guns, well I shot plastic water bottles at 95 yards with my HW 95 in 22 cal. I shot my pro sport which is in 177 cal at 100 yards at cans. amAs Hector Medina stated above the RWS 54 is a easy platform to shoot with but then with its limiting effects of recoil to the shooter it will not help you shooting a regular spring gun or piston gun because of the way they need or want it to be held.

 

But to me the best all around 100-yarder would be the hw90/rx2. Why?e Because you can adjust it's power level. But you can even have fun shooting R7, HW 50 or anything at a hundred yards. 


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straitflite
(@straitflite)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 286
October 25, 2020 15:48:39  

thought about that, but I've heard it called a "horse"; very hard to cock, and needs $500 worth of pumping equipment to regulate it.it

Can anyone kinda elaborate on the $500 worth of supporting equipment? I've contemplated the HW90 in a couple calibers. I like the thought of nothing left to do but scope it.

Funny how time slips by...none has given the R1 a single nod.


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Bill S.
(@tripleguy)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 327
October 25, 2020 16:06:29  
Posted by: @straitflite

thought about that, but I've heard it called a "horse"; very hard to cock, and needs $500 worth of pumping equipment to regulate it.it

Can anyone kinda elaborate on the $500 worth of supporting equipment? I've contemplated the HW90 in a couple calibers. I like the thought of nothing left to do but scope it.

Funny how time slips by...none has given the R1 a single nod.

I shoot my home tuned. 177 cal R1 at 80 yards all the time. Could go to 100 but .22 cal would be a better choice. 

R9/HW 50 could do 100 yards but you have to allow more for the drop and it can't be very windy. So can do and best for the job are 2 different things. 100 yard break barrel with no additional investment? I'd put an R1/HW80 in there in .22 cal. 

 


kdhope thanked
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Chemclay
(@chemclay)
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 41
October 25, 2020 16:10:41  

@straitflite

pump and gauge to adjust power level


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Chemclay
(@chemclay)
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 41
October 25, 2020 16:22:47  

How does the Sig asp20 in .22 compare with the guns mentioned?


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josh3rd
(@josh3rd)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 225
October 25, 2020 16:30:57  

The sig is awesome. But if you decide you want to do anything to it, you can't . If you send it into sig for repair it's like starting all over again on a new rifle.

So in my opinion again the rx2 full-size hw90 is your best bet because you can change barrels and the pressure in the ram. What else could you want?


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straitflite
(@straitflite)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 286
October 25, 2020 17:53:52  

@chemclay

pump and gauge to adjust power level

https://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/Pressure_Gauge_for_HW90_and_RX2/7145

https://www.airgunsofarizona.com/tuning-kits/weihrauch-hw90-gauge/

https://www.bestfittings.co.uk/shop/airgun-charging-equipment/charging-pumps/theoben-weihrauch-hw90-gas-ram-charging-pump-kit/

https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=95707.0

All kinds of ways to skin that cat for much less than $500. I would hope to receive a 90 not requiring immediate attention, but yes you could set it to R7 like power or HW90 like power. Rams are a little more stout on the cocking side of things. Many choices given here & now the fun of choosing begins.

 


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Chemclay
(@chemclay)
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 41
October 25, 2020 18:04:41  

straitflite: does this mean you will be getting a 90?


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straitflite
(@straitflite)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 286
October 25, 2020 18:13:00  

@chemclay

Could be, but I thought this was about helping you find a choice? I was pointing out that publicly saying you need an additional $500 to own one is in fact wrong.


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Chemclay
(@chemclay)
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 41
October 25, 2020 18:42:09  
Posted by: @straitflite

@chemclay

Could be, but I thought this was about helping you find a choice? I was pointing out that publicly saying you need an additional $500 to own one is in fact wrong.

Yes, thank you I see that. I'm hoping you share your reasons for considering the 90.


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straitflite
(@straitflite)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 286
October 25, 2020 19:42:05  

@chemclay

Sorry for the confusion. You did ask for experienced shooters with said equipment, in your OP. I think at least I for one drifted from that. My attempt with the 90 was to not let you be discouraged with a high additional costs. I found that info in less than 3 minutes. I would think (please ask others) that the 90 would be good right from the box. The rifle started as the Beeman RX1, then RX2 & now HW90. In a long list of guns that have come and gone, this one has survived it all for many years now. I used to have a Gas rammed Theoben Eliminator and I loved the gun but had to sell it. Didn't do much long range tests with it though. However, it was a .20 and a laser from hell.

I have a few mid powered, somewhat hotly tuned, and want a long range gun myself again. Some folks currently and in the past have had R1's tuned to over 22 FPE and love 'em. Low power springers aren't necessarily more accurate just more tame making them seem so. I have either owned or shot many of the guns listed in this post. Still, others are more knowledgeable than myself. I'm just getting back into the sport so the landscape of offerings have changed, but the basic physics involved have not. If you want more personal experience with regards to the 90, Sonnysan who responded above probably has more experience than anyone here with the platform. He also has a museum of the finest pieces you'll ever see. I'm quite confident he holds the gun in high regards. Perhaps others with real experience will chime in? Zeroing in on one gun is tough for your needs because the possibilities are both half the fun and other half frustration.

there used to be a poster named Harry Yrrah that used to shoot amazing groups with a .22 Eliminator at 100yds. No easy task for the vast majority of us with a springer.

To be sure, sometimes the gun is the cheapest part of the deal, depending on where you go from there. From all that I've read about, the TX200 or a higher powered Weihrauch is what you are looking for in my humble opinion. I own the RWS 54 but I don't enjoy its extreme weight anymore for offhand shooting, otherwise I would maybe suggest it. Again, personal interjection. I think someone mentioned a Whiscombe; Good luck finding one of those and if you do be prepared to spend 5-10K$

Scope, mounts, chrony etc., etc. It will all certainly add up quickly. Enjoy the ride friend.


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sonnysan
(@sonnysan)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 333
October 25, 2020 21:32:58  

If you want to adjust the ram to your hearts desire, here are the essentials.  You don't need anything else:

Complete kit:

https://www.bestfittings.co.uk/shop/airgun-charging-equipment/charging-pumps/theoben-weihrauch-hw90-gas-ram-charging-pump-kit/

no-frills chronograph:

https://smile.amazon.com/Caldwell-720001-Ballistic-Precision-Chronograph/dp/B00HTN5DTE/ref=sr_1_2_mod_primary_new?dchild=1&keywords=chronograph&qid=1603675305&sbo=RZvfv%2F%2FHxDF%2BO5021pAnSA%3D%3D&sr=8-2

Scope:

I own 20 year old springer rated scopes that are discontinued, but this is a good start:

https://www.straightshooters.com/heavy-recoil-scopes.html

Someone on the boards mentioned this scope can handle any spring or gas piston gun.  When in doubt call Craig at straightshooters:

https://www.straightshooters.com/clearidge-4.5-14x40.html

BKL260 mount if you are using 1" scope:

https://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/BKL_1_Pc_Mount_4_Long_1_Rings_3_8_or_11mm_Dovetail_6_Base_Screws_Matte_Black/2893

muzzle sleeve:

https://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/Air_Venturi_Crow_Mag_Short_Muzzlebrake/2965

 

 

 

 

 

 


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