I have always read that quality wadcutters are designed and most accurate at 10 meter distances with around 550 f.p.s.
I have been shooting wadcutters in my basement during COVID at 50 feet and getting excellent accuracy with several rifles in 12 to 19 ft/lbs. I assume accuracy beyond my 50 foot basement would not be so good. I plan to try some outdoor experiments.
Anybody tried wads at distance? What did ya think?
I've actually had "decent" accuracy out of my Dual Magnum on low power with Meisters up to 30 yards, 35 max. That would be around 24-25fpe if I recall.
I'm not aware of a myth, maybe.
Wadcutters are the first choice for 10m targets because their ballistic coefficient (BC) is not an important factor at 10m. That shape is certainly intended to stay subsonic. Pragmatically, they produce a clean, easy to measure hole for scoring. But that flat face makes the BC pretty awful for longer ranges. On the other hand, that same flat face delivers more energy to the target. Ideally, if that target is a biological at closer range, it will deal max tissue destruction.
They are simply suited to closer ranges and deliver more energy to the target. But at longer ranges, they slow down, lose accuracy, and have less available energy at POI.
Having said all that, I absolutely LOVE GTO 5.5gr wadcutters for 10m paper targets.
In 177 I shoot wadcutters at everything smaller than coons. They get domes, in their domes.
I regularly shoot wadcutters to 40 yards and stuff falls from the trees. Most stop under the skin on the off-side @15fpe 177 firing 8-9gr wadcutter
The closest thing to a problem, has been high power and soft pellets in 22. Not much penetration.
@22fpe the pellet shoots through a squirrel, @32fpe it doesn't. Go figure. The result is the same, either way.
I'd tuned a 15fpe gun, o-ring'd piston and some other crap, a few years ago.
It sounded weak, and my chrony had sprung a leak, so I just put the gun away. For a long time.
A couple weeks ago the R9 took a poop, the weak gun came back into circulation.
It still hasn't gone over the (new) chrony... I'm just not obsessed with speed.
The trajectory is useful at the available ranges, OR it isn't. That's my criteria.
There had been some crows hanging round the chicken coop at my neighbor's house, and I decided to see if one would sit still.
No crows. I did check zero and trajectory. Expecting the gun to be wildly under powered!!!
Gun was zero'd at 10 yards (for rats)
At 40 yards, offhand, using 3x scope and trashy Daisy wadcutters I paid $1.46/500, I could hit the bottom of a 16.9oz water bottle 3 of 4 times.
With Meisterkugelns I could hit 4 of 5.
(once I got done shooting OVER the target) Estimated drop was 1"-1.5"
The misses were pulls, all to the right. That gold trigger needs adjusting.
Random domes (Winchester?) were hitting lower. I've seen the same before, with those pellets.
Not a fan, only 1 of 5 shots hit. Granted, they're $5 TSC pellets, but the Daisy are MUCH uglier.
FWIW, the neighbor was zero for 15 shots, same target @ same distance, w/ wadcutters.
Expecting him to hit at that range was bad judgement on my part, novice and all. 3ft low... eesh.
I've got to remember to move the new shooters up close, so they get some confidence. ?
Right now, that gun is 4 for 4 on squirrels between 15yds and 35yds, and a dozen rats at 10yds. This week.
We are, after accuracy. Right? meow meow BC... meow power...
I've found them to suck for accuracy in any kind of wind at all. I mean ANY.
And I haven't had them hold a decent group past about 20 yards outdoors. In guns that otherwise are basically one hole at that distance.
I can't really find any reason to fool with them for anything other than close up paper punching or close range small pests. What would you hope to accomplish with them at range that a dome wouldn't do?
Maybe in certain calibers they can redeem themselves at longer distances, so far I haven't had much luck past about 20-30 feet with 22 calibers at speeds ranging between 500-1100 fps with several weights and styles (swaged and cast). For the shorter distances they can work pretty well, but in all of the airguns I've tried so far they start flying all over the place whenever I've tried pushing them out farther. The one thing I will say is they always produce a far more pronounced "THWACK!" whenever they hit the bullet trap compared to any other pellets (and even against many slugs).
WC’s do seem to be more at home in lower powered airguns….of course it’s a 10 meter rifle choice; they were designed for that and they cut clean holes for easy scoring.
Do use a good number of .22 WC’s. With an accurate lower powered .22, are a petty good solution for rats inside an outbuilding/barn. A miss or a shoot thought might not leave you walls/roof to patch.
I shot 5 shot groups @ 25 yards with an FWB 603 and 601RT with Vogel green labels back in the day. Found one post:
https://sonnysan.blogspot.com/search?q=fwb
Edit for disclaimer, I've not tried wadcutters at distance from any PCP guns, mostly 12-17-ish FPE springers, except the D54 and H135 which are 22 and I only had crappy wadcutters in 22.
Limbshaker's comment on wind seems accurate, and I've had some real "What the heck happened to my pellet?" moments with even mild wind. We are, however, under trees, and rarely see more than 2mph at ground level.
Strange thread.
Either I can't estimate distance (bullshit, paces and property lines don't lie)
or
this story is like the one about LDCs not working on springers
or
I'm full of crap, and making more up as I go along
or
some of our members can't shoot worth a hoot (excluding Sonny and OP, obviously)
or
MANY guns display poor performance with wadcutters, yet 2 of mine do very well ( a little too well, judging by the responses)
So, I'm confused.
Who the hell KEEPS shooting at squirrels in my ->neighbor's ->neighbor's yard, 175ft away, with wadcutters, AND getting hits?
What about field target? Maybe that sport can add something here.
Known distances, life sized targets.
I have always read that quality wadcutters are designed and most accurate at 10 meter distances with around 550 f.p.s.
I have been shooting wadcutters in my basement during COVID at 50 feet and getting excellent accuracy with several rifles in 12 to 19 ft/lbs. I assume accuracy beyond my 50 foot basement would not be so good. I plan to try some outdoor experiments.
Anybody tried wads at distance? What did ya think?
Back when I was playing with "trick pellets for squirrel hunting" (wadcutters & hollow points) I found that none were very accurate from my .177 R9 (tuned to 14fpe) past about 25 yards, however I did get OK accuracy from the 9.3 grain .177 RWS Super Mag wadcutter and they "put the hurtin" on squirrels out to about 35 yards. after awhile I nixed them in favor of an accurate dome pellet.........
Nice to see you back Ed.
I've whacked a bunch of crows with exactly that pellet, from the R9. Better performance than 8.2gr, because wadcutters SUCK on feathers.
Head shot, avoid the wing unless busting a shoulder, use a quartering shot to sneak around the wing.
Max hit range MAYBE 40, 20 is realistic on the fpe for body shots, 30 stretching it for headshot accuracy.
Let's see, the queen palm is 45ft tall, and I was 40ft from the base... and... I was told there wouldn't be math!
W/ headshot, more crows come to look, that's where the 40-50 shot comes in. I ONLY count those as hit/not, rarely DRT.
2nd zero is somewhere out there, I usually hold near the top of the head, let the chips fall.
Seriously.
With my impromptu water bottle shoot the other day, approx 1.5" drop (from 10yd zero) able to hit the bottom of water bottle at 40.
Holding at the top of a crow's head, 1.5" drop, I'm between wing joints on a frontal shot. (small crows in FL)
Nothing more fitting for an egg thieving crow than being winged and landing in my neighbor's pit of Chihuahuas!
Buuuuuuuttttt....
I may have been missing the boat the whole time here, by shooting quality wadcutters and low-budget domes. Not a fair comparison.
When sifting through the "find a pellet your gun likes" mantra (it was an inaccurate gun, not pellet picky) I acquired many wadcutters, but only a few quality domes. Maybe price was the issue? Yes, I'm sure that was it.
But, now I have more guns, reliable guns.
Time to drag out the JSB domed pellet assortment in 177 and try them at 40 yards. Have a full tin of Superdomes too.
How about a good ol' fashioned egg shoot? ? I need to excite the new shooters somehow.
It still hasn't gone over the (new) chrony... I'm just not obsessed with speed.
The trajectory is useful at the available ranges, OR it isn't. That's my criteria.
Amen & well said! The chrony can indicate an idea of repeatability of a pellet however.
It is still on my bucket list to hunt Bullfrogs from a small boat (where legal to do so) with a .25 pill but alas, none makes them anymore ? The Theoben Eliminator would be my first choice. I love frog legs. That kind of hunt would be in a league of its own. You can get pretty close to the quarry.
Has anyone ever tried .25 wadcutters in an Eliminator at that range?
If someone still makes .25WC's, I'd buy some. Would be about perfect for a lower powered springer for the same type of out-building ratting. The old H&N Hollow Points (the ones that looked more like a semi-wad cutter) cut a WC type hole in paper, same kind of immediate "smack", but they are gone.
WC's are certainly picky about what rifle can shoot them well at higher speeds...and if you need the higher speeds for longer range, why pick a WC (basically the BC ping-pong balls of airgunning).
Think we are too obsessed with range and power. Lots of airgunning that isn't long range or high power, which is where the WC still has value. Actually, the low speed, lower noise, lower penetration, and a bit less down range danger are pretty big plus points in some situations.
Allow me to be real here !! is that permitted here ?? I have been whacking tree rats with 22 wad cutters for decades with my LDs. 14 grain Meisterkugeln making kills out to 40 yards. 565 fps for one LD 595 fps for the other.
I also have taken tree rats out to 40 yards with 177 cal Miesters with my scoped FWB300 . So perhaps its true you guys just can't shoot !! LOL ! Just sayin. Having said that in my old age I don't really like killing anything anymore. I do put a hurting on grasshoppers when they are out of control. sigh !
Seems perfectly reasonable to me.
If we are going to take that kind of time, money, tuning, adjusting, testing to get a “perfect” long range rifle….why aren’t we spending the same amount of effort into a short range rifle?
Is one really a good substitute for the other?
---------
Will admit, the 7.33gr. JSB/AA's often shoot as well or better in "match" rifles than WC's at short (sub 30 yard) range. The RN paper hole "pucker" makes the groups look smaller that cookie cutter hole WC's, but a fair measure doesn't show as much difference....either way, it's not really enough to hang your hat on for accuracy.
Just sayin.
Tempting tempting. There is enough of it to go around, for sure. Claiming that others are a bad shot, might encourage them to call me a liar.
Because everyone on the internet is already a liar. Just sayin. ?
There must be more to it though. Based on replies, the heavy end seems favored, at least in 177.
Most of the lighter 177 WC I've fired, well... I don't remember! Must not have been good?
Having said that in my old age I don't really like killing anything anymore.
No judgement. I have fruit trees, it's an either <-> or situation.
The outside cat will come and bug me if he sees a squirrel, or hears me shooting.
He actually comes to the sound of a pellet gun. Go figure! 0% gun shy!
If I'm sitting on the patio with one, he'll sit right next to me, staring at the trees, like a retriever waiting for the signal.
We hunt rats together too. Nothing tastier than leaky rats or squirrels, and most days I shoot him something for dinner.
I haven't tried the 22 Meisterkugelns yet, thanks for bringing it to mind.
In 22, mostly shooting 14.3 domes, over bulk CO2, with new shooters.
After someone let the barrel on one of my springers fly, from half cock... yeah... gimme those back.
This is CO2. If the tube freezes, don't stick your tongue on it. End of Safety Meeting.
25 wadcutters sound just right for a balance of whack/hole/penetration inside 20 yards.
Frogs are easy to catch on a gold hook, no need to waste meat.
Cuban Treefrogs though... I don't post gore, but the females are the size of a fist. Solid THWACK with wadcutters from H135 @10ft LOL!
aaaand now I want an LD... and a FWB300... this place...
Thanks for being a good sport, and I am not calling anyone a liar. I agree with what you said as everyone needs at least one LD and maybe 5 or 6 FWB 300s. Just sayin.
Keep the lead a flyin
Keep the lead a flyin
'cause nuthin's die'n if the lead ain't flyin' ?
The roof rat (actual tree rat) population is completely out of control this year.
Even with enough bait to kill 150 (this year) the frequency of rats on the adjoining property is at least 2 per minute, through the shooting lane.
In previous years the same quantity of bait stopped any visible signs of rats for several months.
Managed to poison a chicken too. Damn.
@airgunwizard Dumb ---- here, what is a LD?
This is the grail co2 pistol modded by he who shall not be named.
Unless he might be dead. Then we can.
As you were!
LD = Larry Durham. That is an old fart out in Calif who invented the Air pistol known as the L.D . Which is a modified crosman Mark 1 or 2 c02 pistol. The are very consistant and very accurate. Go To Mac1 site and have a look see. I have had my two for a very long time. I have invested about 650.00-700.00 in each of mine.
I am very proud of what I am able to do with mine Super cool pistols. Also look up Taco hold. Like I said every air gunner needs at least 1.
LOL Tim is far from dead. BUTTTTTT he has had a crosman 600 of mine for over a year being tricked out. I might die before I get it back.
@airgunwizard Dahhhh... Iknew that, something pulled at me thinking there was rifle I was missing.
@airgunwizard Oh and I thought a half yr. was long. Ya know when one gets older tamorrow ain't for sure, kinda like my spelling.
Just a quick and simple question...
Wonder why you never see anybody shooting wadcutters in any form of competition other than 10M stuff?
Guess those guys don't know how to shoot either?
LOL Tim is far from dead. BUTTTTTT he has had a crosman 600 of mine for over a year being tricked out. I might die before I get it back.
https://airgunwarriors.com/community/airgun-talk/has-tim-mcmurray-passed-away/#post-46500
Just a quick and simple question...
Wonder why you never see anybody shooting wadcutters in any form of competition other than 10M stuff?
Solid question. I'd rather speed-load round nose in my 38spl, than wadcutters. Night and day, when on the clock.
Expect some plurality of shooters to avoid wadcutters simply for dexterity issues, or guns like D54, ect.
Same reason I haz the newbs with .22 domes, big pellet, drops right in. (plus cheap)
Then again... if we follow this logic... pointy pellets must be even more better than good!
Wait, they're not? (even though this has come up before, I was never clear on the WHY NOT part)
Remember when those pointy pellets with three rings used to shoot lights out in the early R series Beemans ? What was up with that?
Remember when those pointy pellets with three rings used to shoot lights out in the early R series Beemans ? What was up with that?
They were the right size for the bore and probably more consistently made.
Why do those same guns nowadays shoot lights out with JSBs or modern H&Ns?
-They are the right size for the bore and consistently made.
Just a quick and simple question...
Wonder why you never see anybody shooting wadcutters in any form of competition other than 10M stuff?
Then again... if we follow this logic... pointy pellets must be even more better than good!
Wait, they're not? (even though this has come up before, I was never clear on the WHY NOT part)
What "logic" are you referring to?
Nobody in competition uses pointed pellets either....
I think you missed my point.
And that point being, that basically nobody uses anything but a round nose pellet for Field Target, Benchrest (except the long range crap with slugs) and anything other than 10M.
If wadcutters were even a marginal advantage, they would use them. Especially so considering that the most consistent pellets available are high end wadcutters. The 10M guys pay big bucks for hand sorted and weighed pellets.
I think you missed my point.
Wow, 2 puns in a single sentence! Winning!
I wasn't disputing anything you said, just pointing out that fat thumbs, obscured breaches, and awkward people ARE ALL things which exist.
IF I were competing, and wadcutters/domes was a push, I'd use domes for easier chambering.
Competition is not my thing. If it were, it would be my ONLY thing. So, no.
I have entertained the idea of competition powderburner, and spent some time shooting with ispc, idpa, and 3 gun competitors.
They have... some peculiarities. I'm being polite, because they were willing to share.
Some of them are fast at everything, even IF they couldn't hit the ground with 4 used beers and 2 waters.
@Gratewhitehunter
Must have got our wires crossed, whatever lol!
It's all good.
And yeah, some of the powder competition guys are a little out there...
Frogs are easy to catch on a gold hook, no need to waste meat.
There’s hole hog and hole frog? I’m a leg man myself. The bigger bulls in northern creeks and rivers are harvested from the water to froggie on bank after dusk for best results. Leave golden hook, pack dependable light, gig and balls. Learned to gig long before I could drive. I could still do it but it hurts more these years discovering under water topography in quick moving water during pitch darkness and going ass over tea kettle. Your state allows shooting them when licensed properly. Went on many outings on Istakpoga tributaries aboard boats but still used gigs and long poles at night because like most states that allow shooting them, it requires hunting permit instead of just fishing license.
Friends in neighboring state of KY can “hunt” legally but too many are lost from over penetrating .22 rf’s and that final death leap into the water. .25 pellet might be the trick or even a .22 WC?
I tried RUS Supermags out of my R11 a while back. Sorta good at thirty five yards max if I remember right. Not better than domes. If I can find them I should try them in my HW35 and 55.
I miss my Diana 75...
Went on many outings on Istakpoga tributaries
If you went here to order frog legs, they would bring whole frogs. Color me... not a fan, of Lake Okeechobee flavored chicken.
http://thecatfishplacestcloud.com/
Don lived a couple years in the town (lol) of Lorida, on the north end of Istokpoga, but we were having a drought, and the lake stayed low.
More time was spent messing with the engine or prop, than fishing.
On big frogs, the 4fpe Beeman P17 with wadcutters does a convincing job, where the Red Ryder falls painfully short. 10 shots, sometimes.
In 22, anywhere between 6-10fpe should do nicely. A nice round hole LOL. Yep.
Don lived a couple years in the town (lol) of Lorida, on the north end of Istokpoga, but we were having a drought, and the lake stayed low.
More time was spent messing with the engine or prop, than fishing.
Hydrilla became a huge problem for the lake in the mid 90's causing many prop problems. Airboat was the way to go when they drained it down for the hydrilla eradication at that time. My favorite tributary was Arbuckle creek. What a beautiful wilderness ride! Back then I lived at the end of Elliott Rd off US 98, complete with canal and personal boat dock leading to the main body of the lake. I opened my bank account in the small metropolis of Lorida ? and since they have branches all over the north, I'm still with them. Small world LOL
Don't know why I'm so obsessed with shooting bullies with WC's...maybe just to try the theory. Hey, we all have dreams ?
Wadcutters are a good choice if one shoots in a rural area ! Less chance of over penatration. been using them for years at close and mid ranges. Yea they don't have that cool factor but they do work. Even shot a water moc which found its way into the boat one morning. 22 cal mister to the head and it was over. This was with the LD too. When I took the shot I was worried about putting a small hole in the bottom of my boat. But it all turned out well.
Someone had to drag out some gear, eventually.
All coins are to scale.
All shot from left to right.
Seated on 5gal bucket, gun on 30gal barrel, on gravel.
The big disclaimer.
I tried using some new leather shooting bags as a rest, after shooting the 10 and 20 yards, I figured out that the stickiness of the leather was pulling shots.
1/3 -2/3 of shots in a couple groups... and why the heck did this gun just recoil diagonally? WTF is going on here!?!?
I tossed a bit of nylon cloth over the bags before shooting the 30s. Much better!
This is why 30 is comparable, or smaller than, the 20s. Stupid mistake! I don't usually shoot off horizontal surfaces, I'm a field rest kinda man.
Minor disclaimers...
R9 recently on the fritz, scope replaced, mount repositioned, screws locktite'd. I had lubed the spring ZERO SHOTS AGO.
Not thrilled with the new 2-7 power scope, tweaked scope right-> during 10 yard shots (on the dome target)
Some very light dieseling during the 20 yard shots, the TDW continued dieseling into the 30yds.
Drank 2 pots of coffee today (Espresso) took 20mg of Adderal. (with the zim-zam and the pow-boom action jiggety jiggety I gotta go pee, BRB)
Morning work was R&R timing belt and water pump on a Toyota. Impact and torque wrenches. I'm not tired yet... shaky, but not tired LOL.
Nicer pellets on odd lines 1,3,5 while low grade pellets on even line 2,4,6.
Line 1&2 are 10yds, lines 3&4 are 20, lines 5&6 are 30.
Superdomes SD
Tractor supply Winchester domes (the cheapest domes I could find @$5) TSWD (these fell off the paper at 30)
Meisterkugeln MK
Trashy Daisy Wadcutters 3 for a penny TDW
Crow Magnum CM (no budget version, only CM on target)
Line #5, the first dime, is an exception. The high shots are a group, the low shot is a single. I got distracted by trying to use the dots on the reticle,
The cat does NOT understand target shooting, at all. He showed up on the 3rd shot, camped out the whole time.
Like... dude... when are you going to hit something?
Bitchy resting face. The snaggletooth earned him the name Elvis.
This is just a stray, who likes eating rats, but can't shoot worth a damn. I don't eat rats, so we get along OK.
The 30 yards Meisterkuglen groups could be a little better but I got excited when THIS ran right in front of the target!
WHUT!?!?!?! I took a second. Let's not shoot the neighbor's new pet, or something. Wow... at 5pm? Ok!!!
However my groups LOOK, this is a 30 yard shot, on a moving target, AND I was able to sneak behind the shoulder.
POI is constant with target, around 1/2" higher than point of aim.
Ok... so you hit s-o-m-e-thing! (you take the bite first bro!)
When it's a squirrel, he's usually the first to see, and even leaps to catch the falling ones in mid-air.
Zero percent gun shy. Super excited about hunting. Possums stink.
What do I take away from those? Coffee ruins my shooting. I've known this, since the first time.
All the talk of holding like this or that, I'd NEVER considered the friction characteristics of resting materials, effecting recoil and pulling shots.
I'll be more careful about the bench surface next time. (usually rested on my fat fist ,I'm not a bench/bucket shooter.)
TL:DR MK had pellets touching at 30 yards, trajectory is favorable with a 10 yard zero, second zero will be close to 40.
AND I managed a freak kill during this target session, with only 3 seconds to figure out that is wasn't the (same color, sneaks around target) cat, and pop one off.
Trashy Daisy wadcutters are useless.
It's common to have 2 pellets touching, and one pulled shot LOL.
Look at the trajectories. I didn't change anything after tweaking the windage right during 10 yard domes, all the same point of aim, dead center on the coin.
EDIT, except CM line 5, 3 shots high from using dot on reticle, single low-left was aimed true to cross.
Crow magnums dropped one penny between 10-30. Windage was left-ish. We had some rain blow in, and I shot a larger 30 group in a hurry.
Superdomes did VERY WELL. I mentioned never having tested them, and that I might have been missing the boat. TRUE!
Meisterkugeln SHOT HIGH AT 30 ... even with all the talk of eagles dropping turtles from the sky. Again, the last shots were hurried due to weather.
These were left, always left, high at 20, fell off the paper at 30. How cool is that? ?
Will be testing the Superdomes at greater distance, along with MK, and some JSB, when I've had less coffee!
So, I'm confused.
Who the hell KEEPS shooting at squirrels in my ->neighbor's ->neighbor's yard, 175ft away, with wadcutters, AND getting hits?
Gratewhite,
those lines produced a wide grin on my face. ???
Yeah, WHOOOO?!??? ??
O, and thanks for this thread. This is a discussion I wanted to have for a while now.
➔ Because wadcutters make big holes in quarry. And I take big hole over small hole any day. — So as long as they fly true, they can truly due some damage.
Matthias
at 50 feet and getting excellent accuracy with several rifles in 12 to 19 ft/lbs. I assume accuracy beyond my 50 foot basement would not be so good. I plan to try some outdoor experiments.
Anybody tried wads at distance? What did ya think?
OP was the brave one for asking, just like the Crow Magnum thread ?
He should expect certain pellets to suck (TDW), a good one with touching holes at 20, "favored" pellet still good at 30.
175ft away
Gratewhite,
those lines produced a wide grin on my face. ???
It's good to smile but,
with yesterday's gusty wind, jitter-bug, and the faint odor of burn't lube... that sort of shot would be completely out of the question.
Most of the lube had run out the rear, flooded the rear cap on the brand new scope ? Getting to the compression chamber was a 2nd kick in the nuts.
Next session will be 30 and 40 yards, with some new wadcutters thrown in.
With regard to the poor dead critter, someone might take a gander at "Yung's personal example of Synchronicity" and consider the sheer improbability.
What is the chance of having dropped a MK in the breach JUST THEN? After 20 mins shooting at a pallet fwack fwack fwack!
The strings BEFORE (TDW) and AFTER (TSWD), were both such poor performers, that I'd have shot clean over, or under.
Nay, one of our hens has gone into hiding somewhere, to brood a nest, and we CANNOT find her. It would not do to let one walk.
The reverse of Yung's coin, if Synchronicty did have validity in how the Universe operates... that's messed up. ?
I had my best group I can remember with an early HW77 and Superdomes at thirty yards (rested). Five shot group under half a dime. Going back in discussions maybe a little over a decade ago, it seemed SDs worked best in rifles under 850 fps. IMHO certain pellets work best at certain velocities when all other dynamics are pretty well sorted out.
Harv
