New here- and also new to airguns- after a life of cartridge and black powder shooting.
Bought a Sig Sauer ASP20 direct from factory, and rifle arrived with NO maintenance booklet , and the heaviest weight that I ever felt in a firearm.
Put it on a electronic scale, and it weighs 15.3 pounds. Published weight (but not from SS, they never talk about the weight0 seems to be 9.6 pounds,
which is heavy for a air rifle, but not as overweight as mine. Three calls to to SS customer relations resulted in talking to a pair of worthless kids that, told me that
if I had opened the box I couldn't return it. Then they began to "play" with me, saying that if I sent it back, they would exchange it for the plastic stock model,
that there we 45 other other people answering phones in the department, ETC, ETC
After about 40 minutes total time of lying on their part in my 3 calls. I will NEVER buy anything from SS again.
Now that I have got that out of my craw, does anyone have a ASP20,.22 caliber, wood stock, that they have an accurate weight on? I would like to know
where the thing needs oiling (if I ever take it out of it's box again).and also why it is so heavy. Guess I will have to take it apart and see where I can lighten
it up on my milling machine.
Gromit
Pyramyd Air list the weight at 8.5 pounds. So your gun weighs almost two times listed weight. Your scale is wacky or they used lead wood LOL. l would double check that weight. Most spring guns are a little heavy. Not always a bad thing. Light springers are rather hard to shoot accurately. Don
I'm with Don, it sounds like there's something not right with your scale. Click on the link to part 1 (left side below image) of this PA blog on the ASP20. Scroll down to the section titled "What about wood?". He lists the weight of the wood stocked gun being reviewed, both with and without a scope.
https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/?s=ASP20&btnGo=
BTW, you might try contacting Pyramyd Air and see if they can get you an owner's manual for it. I've found them to be pretty helpful folks.
Thanks for the reply, Doninva.
I will check it on a couple other scales today if I get the chance. But, I wish you were in a position to come
here and pick the thing up.. Any gun nut would say WTF! My son, who is relatively strong can't hold the
the forearm up long enough to acquire the target and squeeze off a shot.
Gromit
Hello Gromit and welcome to airgunning.
Sig Sauer is just starting to venture into airgunning, so you will find that their transition is even harder than yours. Sadly, most PB'ing enthusiasts in the USA, on both sides (supply and demand), look at airgunners as the red-headed step-child of the shooting sports.
So, the kids you were talking to on the phone at Sig-Sauer, probably lacked training, or, are millenials that do not pay ANY attention to training, as they know everything because they read it on the internet and the internet is always right, LOL!
Personally, I'm not a fan of the ASP20. Even though it is produced by a "sister" company, and it has some DIANA parts in it.
But I would bet my gun vs. yours (wood stocked and with the whiskey 3 scope) that your scale is wacky. You either pushed the "Tare" button, or something else.
My ASP20, NIB, wood stocked, WITH the Sig-Sauer Scope weighs in at 9# 13oz.
On the maintenance side, the gun was developed by Sig-Sauer to be sold to firearms shooters, therefore it was designed as a "Maintenance Free" gun.
You are NOT supposed to oil anything and the manual (available here:
https://www.sigsauer.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/ASP20-Manual_4-3_Final.pdf
says on page 28-29:
"4.- DO NOT use Petroleum based oils or solvents as this can cause damage to your rifle"
Do read the manual's .PDF I linked above, as there are things you DO need to do, like checking your screws (stock to action & scope to base to action) after the first 100 shots and then after every tin of pellets.
If you noted down the names of the "kids" on the phone, then either post them here or send them to me in a PM. I'll gladly escalate the issue, as it is in no one's interest to have those jokers answering the phones. They might be the best thing since sliced bread when they talk about pistols and SMG's, but airgunning is different.
If you have ANY comment or doubt, do not hesitate to post it here.
Airgunners are a great crowd, and the fora are great sources of information/opinions. Of course, you will have to filter out what is what.
HTH, welcome again, and just be a little perseverant, in other words, do take the gun out of the box, again. 😉
HM
David, I had the pleasure of shooting an early ASP-20 at the Texas Show 2 years ago. It was a pleasant surprise. A bit tactical with the black blocky stock, but it fit reasonably well. Cocking effort was also better than expected when shooting the current Gamo and variants that attempt to maximize the power with gas rams and really high effort. The ASP-20 was not hard to cock. The trigger was the OK, not up to Air Arms or HW, but acceptable. Apparently some people have reprofiled the sears to make it better, but not much adjustment according to third hand reports.
The shot cycle was nice and smooth. The sites were way off and I couldn't hit the LARGE targets that were at the range, but was still intrigued. Hoping they make one with a wood stock that looks like wood and not black. An adjustable trigger unit would also be great. The rifle I shot was solid, but didn't feel like 15 pounds.
OK, both of you are right, wrong setting on the scale. My bad. 9.83#. But i guess that it is intended as a benchrest
rifle, A little bit of deceptive advertising, showing a picture of what looks like a ten year kid carrying one thru the
woods. I hope that he has a favorite log to use as a support. Benchrest isn't an option available to me, unless
I go to the gun club. Wanted something that I could shoot in our 4½ acres. Guess I'll have to make a benchrest for
home. Thanks for the Pymarid Air hint Jim
Hector, I appreciate all the information! As you saw in my previous post, I did something wrong with the scale. Went in the gun safe,
and got my son's Garand out--and it felt just as heavy. So, a case of gitten old. (83).I guess.
Wish that I could remember the "Associates" names, they certainly didn't do much to further the SS name. But since I am unable to
identify either ---they answered the phone (as so many others do) with "GoodmorningSigSauerairgunsBlahspeakinghowmayIhelpyou"
the only thing that I suspect, is that there are only two, and they don't have much to do--as I wasn't put on hold,the phone got answered
on the first ring all three times, and I called when Sig says the busiest parts of the day for them. Oh well.. But a big THANKS to you,
and to all who responded.
Herb (When I don't have my long eared suit on)
@hector-j-medina-g
Hector, what is it you don't like about he Sig ASP20. I was wondering if it might have potential as a springer FT gun once detuned a bit. I don't have one, and have not shot one myself.
David Enoch
Hello David;
Well, the ASP20 is a gas spring'ed rifle. Non-adjustable.
Sig-Sauer DECIDED to make the gun "non-shooter-serviceable", yes it is designed to be "maintenance free", except for the note about checking your screws; but there are NO spare parts, NO infrastructure to support airgunners.
Taking apart the gun (and there are several, indicators installed), voids the warranty and, without parts available, what are airgunners to do? Sig-Sauer decided to give an ample warranty (5 years to the original purchasor ONLY), to cover everything, but that still means that you CANNOT, in all honesty, customize or tune the gun for anything else than what it was designed to do, and that was to appeal to the firearms shooters on the basis of muzzle speed and aesthetics.
So, shoot and love it, or leave it.
I do realize that the FT market is small, but slowly, it is becoming a test-bed that is more and more respected by all shooting sports pundits/writers, and that creates opinion, public perception.
I HAVE contacted Sig-Sauer about having a special version/variant made, but the response was somewhat less than enthusiastic. ;-). If there is any change in this front, I will post an update here.
Don't know how much say Ed Schultz (ex-Crosman) had in all of this, but it is clearly not a smart decision for the savvy airgunners out there.
Could I (or any other professional gunsmith), actually customize the ASP-20 for FT? Of course!, but then the question becomes : "¿Why bother?"
I am already more than halfway to re-vamping the DIANA powerplant to exceed anything in the market, an experimental Mauser AM03 converted to steel spring is giving really good accuracy, these are groups at 35 meters from the FT position. The black blobs are slightly smaller than a dime:
Cocking effort is under 22# peak for 12 ft-lbs yield. And do note that it is not one group, there are 6 of them, some better than others, but none of them bad by any standards.
Shot cycle is really nice with no vertical jump, a little vibration and buzz but that is, essentially, the way the ABP (anti-bounce-piston) works.
The gun itself shoots as well as my WFTF D-54, I am just not good enough to shoot it as consistently over a 3 day match.
The last thing about the ASP-20 is that there is a lot of "hype" that simply does not sit well with me, and let me give you TWO examples:
ONE.- Supposedly, you cannot change the barrel/caliber in these guns because the block is drilled together with the fork. Sure, that sounds like an interesting and plausible concept, but, given the fact that modern CNC machines with self-locating and positioning jigs can give repeatabilities of about 0.0003" for hole locations, does it now sound as logical? I THINK that the need to drill the two parts together is because the LOCKUP "shoulders"/stops are not being done with enough precision and they NEED to not depend on any sort of GD&T, but on the parts themselves. Yes it is a solution, but not one that takes into account the wants and needs of the typical airgunner. A friend advanced the idea that what they want is for shooters to buy TWO guns (one in each caliber), and if there was a healthy second hand market, that could be the case, but until that happens, you need to either get the gun exchanged (if you have not used it), or buying another one. Now, a healthy second hand market will be hard to come by with no extendable warranty to the 2nd user and no parts available for repair.
TWO.- the "super-duper-extra-adjustable-Match-Light-trigger" has to be adjusted from the top of the action (page 22 of the manual linked above). I don't think they tried to do it with a more usable scope (than the W-3) in place.
Anyway, sorry for the long-winded response. Thanks for asking!
My Grandpa used to say that "Anything that cannot be repaired is not worth having". Over the years, the world has come away from this concept and there are a TON of things that are "disposeable".
I still think it is a wise philosophy.
Keep well and shoot straight!
HM
Hector, I appreciate all the information! As you saw in my previous post, I did something wrong with the scale. Went in the gun safe,
and got my son's Garand out--and it felt just as heavy. So, a case of gitten old. (83).I guess.
Wish that I could remember the "Associates" names, they certainly didn't do much to further the SS name. But since I am unable to
identify either ---they answered the phone (as so many others do) with "GoodmorningSigSauerairgunsBlahspeakinghowmayIhelpyou"
the only thing that I suspect, is that there are only two, and they don't have much to do--as I wasn't put on hold,the phone got answered
on the first ring all three times, and I called when Sig says the busiest parts of the day for them. Oh well.. But a big THANKS to you,
and to all who responded.
Herb (When I don't have my long eared suit on)
Hello Herb!
No problem, we all do it now and then (just don't ask why I know about the wrong push of the "Tare" button, ROFL!
Airguns can be enjoyable at all ages, I am not that young (63), but I do realize that the 20 years between us are the hardest (so far). And yet, it CAN be part of your life.
Take it slowly, get some wristweights and slowly start getting used to carrying weight in your hands to all places.
Sooner than you think you will not even think about the weight.
If you try benchrest, do go over what the manual says in page 31.
Last, but not least, don't be too concerned about buying another rifle! If this one does not suit you, now you know where to look for options, and where to post your questions. Chuck it to "experience".
Keep well, shoot straight and keep us posted!
HM
@davidenoch
David, if you want to shoot an ASP20 at field target match, just let me know and I'll bring mine for you to shoot. Mine is a .177 with a Leupold 6.5-20EFR scope. It is a good gun, I just drifted to the darkside temporarily this year and haven't shot it too much yet.
Cliff
