Posted this on another forum. I bought the accupells for England were supposed to be "Vintage". The Vortex were purchased from Field Supply recently. Both are the exact same weight. Both are screw top tins and the seal around the tin is printed with the exact same message. Both say made in Germany, I suspect H&N as the manufacture. The Accupells are pre lubed in the tin with Napier.
Posted this on another forum. I bought the accupells for England were supposed to be "Vintage". The Vortex were purchased from Field Supply recently. Both are the exact same weight. Both are screw top tins and the seal around the tin is printed with the exact same message. Both say made in Germany, I suspect H&N as the manufacture. The Accupells are pre lubed in the tin with Napier.
The weight, the profile including the head shape, and the nice smooth finish all seem to coincide with H&N Field Target Trophy pellets as far as I'm concerned. That would be the ones commonly referred to as FTT, for short.
RWS used to sell the H&N Field Target Trophy pellet in .25 caliber as Diana Domes, with the same weight, coming in right around 21 grains. Marksman and then Beeman used to sell the FTT pellets under the same name, that being Field Target Special, known as FTS for short.
Many air gun manufacturers know it's a great pellet in a lot of guns, and want to offer it in their own catalog.
Air Arms pellets are the same as JSB. I worked in the meat business for a lot of years. There were 37 different types of bacon that came off the same line. Only difference was the packaging. Prices were a lot different too.
about rebranded pellets... —> It seems to be extremely common.
Here's a link to a post about the ballistic coefficient of pellets (an internet wide collection of BC numbers for .22cal).
In the post there is a link to a PDF document. It will get you not just the BC's, but a whole list of rebranding connections — who is rebranding what under which name.... ? Quite a labyrinth....
Look everybody has an opinion to whatever but I know one thing for certain into things for sure many people say JSB'S be in a AA's are the same I beg to differ. My prosport shoots then pretty well but it shows preference to the air arms pellet and it shows different POI when aiming at the same Target and at the same place. Now just like h&n field Target Trophy and the Beeman field Target selects. My Beeman rx2 prefers the field targets select over the field Target trophy and shows a different point of impact also. City can't be the same. Jmo
Funny you should bring that up...like maybe JSB makes some of the AA pellets, same wt,shape,etc,but the AA shoot better and I noticed better finished...
I talked to the JSB rep at the PA shoot. He told me that the AA pellets and the JSB pellets come off the same line. The only difference is the label. There are different batches of JSB pellets and some shoot better than others in certain guns. A few years back I stocked up on a bad batch of JSB pellets. It about drove me crazy trying to figure out why all of my guns started shooting bad at the same time. Next batch of pellets were good.
I'm so quick to post my 'smart little tips' that I appreciate you guys putting up with me, but based on what you just wrote, now I have to post this one.
In order to maintain one's sanity in regard to ammunition, on occasion, I have advised my customers that when they first find a tin (and probably a manufacturing lot of brand x pellets--i.e. received in the same shipment) that shoots well in their gun, don't shoot them all up. Instead, mark that tin, or at least a partial tin, with the name of the rifle and the date, and set it/them aside, safe and sound where they can easily be found at some later date, if necessary. Call those a 'baseline' tin of pellets.
Then, if at some point in the future, be it 5 months or 5 years, if the accuracy with that same gun goes to pot, and you can't seem to figure out what's wrong, you don't have to tear out your hair wondering if it might be your ammo. In saying you can't figure out anything else that might be wrong, I'm saying this would be the right time to check the stock screws for tightness and clean the barrel, for instance.
Anyway, if those things don't do it, then you can open up that stored tin of wonder ammo from the vault again, and see if the accuracy returns. You'll probably know if that's it within 10 shots. If the accuracy comes back, you've found your problem.
Yes, it may be hard to find more of the same lot if it's changed in some way, like their being made with a worn or different die, but you can try something else until you find one that works.
My Steyr and TX200 shoot AA 8.4s great but JSBs not so much. My Thomas likes JSB 7.9s but doesn't shoot the AA 7.9s very well so take it for what it is worth. Don
I have found that JSB'S and Air Arms 8.44 grain pellets are not the same, and, are totally different. I have a comparison video of the 2, and their differences on my U Tube Channel.
In speaking to JSB reps, the pellet of JSB and AIR Arms do come off the same line, but Air Arms has their own set of proprietary dies.
Air arms pellets are more accurate in all of my air arms springers/pcp's compared to the jsb's,even when sorting and weighing maybe better quality control.
Tom, do you know or have a good guess as to why pellets are so undersized? Order 4.53 to try to get 4.52 and almost all were 4.50 or less. Is it because the dies are new and haven't got their "sizing" worn in or maybe they are wearing out. I know nothing can be done except quit sizing, which I have no idea why I do it, It seemed like the thing to do after reading and watching all the info.As I have said many times, I can't figure out how to "upsize"
The only factor that I can figure, is that when dies are made, with any and all of the larger manufacturers, they are machined at all the same time. People think that die "B", or die # 45 is one die. It is not. It is a series of usually 6-8 dies that are supposedly machined the same. What happens after machining, the die needs to be hardened. What ends up happening, is that some dies end up getting hardened more than others. Only a couple of degrees can mean a big difference in hardness. As time progresses, the softer annealed dies wear quicker, thus several different head sizes in a tin. Smaller companies that have less or even one die will not have this problem. The manufacturers try to stretch the life of their dies as long as possible, for a set of dies for a large industrial swaging setup can cost almost approaching 7 digits.
Don't think there is any more difference in AA vs. JSB versions than there is in production runs/lot numbers within the same brand name. Today's JSB's will not be EXACTLY like the JSB's of 8 months from now....today's AA versions will not be like AA's version 8 months from now. Those little varsions don't make for much difference in most rifles, but in some rifles,that little bit of difference in brand OR lot number really can show up on targets (or if you have a rifle that has a wide range of "happy pellets",may not notice it at all)..
All I can say is I talked to the rep at length. Found out he used to work at the same company I did. Anyway, I asked him straight out about the pellets. I told him about the AA pellets shooting different and I had heard about the different dies and other rumors. He assured me they are exactly the same pellets. Who knows, maybe he doesn't know himself. I have shot a lot of both pellets too and noticed the difference too. I thought he would know his product, but maybe not. Main thing is, have fun!
That might be the case. A couple of years ago, at the PA cup, I think it was 2017, I spoke to him at length about the design, and some of the flaws that I found with JSB pellets. He seemed taken back when I informed him of the vast weight difference and headsize variations of a typical tin of 8.44 Exacts. He claimed that this was the first time of him even hearing that....... Now this is something that is a proven FACT for the last 6 years or so. So, to be surprised that this was being brought up to him by myself, and he claimed it was news to him, tells me he was just a sales rep that doesn't have a full grasp on the quality, or lack thereof of the product that they are representing. Anyone can vouch that the quality of JSB'S as of the last few years, has waned, and the quality in the early 2008-2014 was far superior than the "same" product now.
Also, if you buy the current latest offerings from both Air Arms and JSB, you can clearly see that they are not the same.
