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Refinishing rifles with moly resin  

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chuck
( @chuck )
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 9
2020-01-08 01:18:24  

this is interesting stuff you can check out at molyresin.com.   it is a baked finish with catalyst cross linking.  it is far superior to solvent extracting finishes like duracoat and a little behind ceracoat.  i have cans of socom black which is a dead flat black, and a stainless steel color in stock.  the black is used on machine guns so it's reputable.  plenty of pistols have been done with this material with satisfied customers and long lasting results.  you guys are familiar with cerakote pricing.  moly resin doesn't require solvent bathing, only sand blasting, then air brush spraying the material, then baking at 300*.  if there is any interest i can do a springer or pcp rifle for about $125.  my personal applications are airgun and conventional gun parts and motorcycle parts.  with an air brush and a harbor freight sand blaster, and a toaster oven or your home oven, you can set up to apply this coating, which happily for us is one mil thick and shouldn't interfere with fit tolerances.  check the website they have many colors.  i ordered the two colors that are commonly used on guns and don't require visualization or a good eye to anticipate the exact shade.  right now things are somewhat busy but i should be able to post pics of exemplar work in april.


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Gratewhitehuntr
( @gratewhitehuntr )
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 544
2020-01-08 08:04:05  
Excerpts
 
Moly Resin™ will meet 24 hour emersion requirements in the following fluids: aviation gasoline, hydraulic fluid, jet fuel, lubricating oils, paint removers, trichlorethylene, nitric, sulphuric and hydrochloric acids, hydrogen peroxide, gun powder solvents, strong bases such as ammonium and sodium hydroxide, and numerous other strong chemicals.
 
Moly Resin is a thermally cured phenolic coating specifically developed for ordnance usage on equipment and weapons. The low temperature activated catalyst hardensand bonds the coating to create a hard, durable, chemical and a heat resistant state-of-the-art firearm finish. The coated surface forms a barrier to salt water, acids, oils, strong powder and bore cleaners while sustaining high temperatures associated with firearm suppressors and barrels. Moly Resin will adhere to allproperly prepared metal surfaces including aluminum, stainless steel,titanium, copper, silver solder, and Parkerizing. Moly Resin darker colors areformulated with molybdenumdisulfide (Molylubricant).The original Moly Resin coating was initiallydeveloped in 1980for aluminum AR-15/M-16 receiversand stainless steel sound suppressors

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Gratewhitehuntr
( @gratewhitehuntr )
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 544
2020-01-08 11:38:03  

well shut my mouth... and thanks for the MSDS point out... I've condensed my entire post into a blurb as follows.

My original rant was based on people wanting to pretend that the paint they're peddling isn't paint, or knocking VOC, usually because it's easy to google, and google will tell you that VOC is dangerous. Weasel words, and somehow our product is different.

#15 in the application instructions made mention of paint being solvent based, as if that is bad.

IF IT WERE BAD, THEN THIS COMPOUND WOULD BE EXTRA EXTRA BAD because it's basically all solvents. Just do the math! The only solids here are #1 Phenol #3 Moly #11 Barium  and ALL the rest are solvents. Look up the CAS#

On a related note, "Cellosolve" is also in LA's Awesome cleaner from Dollar Tree... trade secret my eye... it's just a lot of solvents and some phenol!

 

 

Here is a copy/paste of the MSDS

SECTION II – Hazardous Components and Toxicity                                                                    Concentrations

Phenol (Cas # 108-95-2)                                                                                                                           Trade Secret

Ethanol (CAS #64-17-5)                                                                                                                             < 30 %

Molybdenum Disulfide (CAS #1317-33-5)                                                                                 Trade Secret

Methyl Ethyl Ketone (Cas # 78-93-3)                                                                                                        >50 %

P.M. Acetate (Cas # 108-65-6)                                                                                                  Trade Secret

Methyl Isobutyl Ketone (Cas 3 108-10-1)                                                                                 <10%

Residual Formaldehyde (Cas # 50-00-0)                                                                                    Trace

Freon TF (Cas # 76-13-1)                                                                                                                           <10%

Cellosolve Acetate (Cas # 111-15-9)                                                                                                         Trade Secret

Stainless Steel (Powder)* (Cas # 7429-90-5)                                                                                             <10%

* used only in the Stainless Steel Moly Resin

Inorganic Barium Compound                                                                                                    <10%

Toluene (Cas #108-88-3)                                                                                                                          <10%

Isopropyl Alcohol (Cas # 67-63-0)                                                                                                             Trade Secret

Xylene (Cas #1330-20-7)                                                                                                                          <10%

 


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Isledweller
( @isledweller )
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 25
2020-01-08 12:27:58  

MSDS near the bottom of this page under Other Information:

https://molyresin.com/moly-resin-application-instructions/


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straitflite
( @straitflite )
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 126
2020-01-08 13:25:14  

Interesting post. I have been considering cerakote for a Beeman P1. Not sure how the Aesthetics/durability would pan out against the moly resin route. I know little on the subject but the anodized? finish on the P1 definitely leaves room for much improvement as far as looks go. I am concerned how the durability would be in the areas of cocking/pivot points.


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Gratewhitehuntr
( @gratewhitehuntr )
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 544
2020-01-08 14:37:04  

Anodize is aluminum oxide, usually clogged with pigment. https://www.finishing.com/356/77.shtml

I have the (nasty) chemicals for a sort of rough GOLD anodize, I'll take pics of the labels later and post in this thread for you. Suffice to say, it's not real pretty without pigments.

 

TL;DR---> I can't rant enough about people who would pee on your leg and tell you "It's raining."

Edit to re-add, I have no commercial interests, don't know Chuck, not looking for a fight. I hate BS and hate seeing people buy 85% solvent.

 

 

The CAS on the phenol is a little different than the coatings I've seen, often more like CAS 28064-14-4 which is an ester.

This phenol shows as a solid, which makes my (deleted) joke about this writer miss-characterizing paint as some acetone/pigment/mudpie all the more on-point.

Will all those solvents... but it's not paint! I mean it's not solvent evaporation, I mean... I stand by my original position.

My original rant went into the recipe for "Red Lead" paint (pb04) and I deleted it, thinking maybe it was just ranting.

After re-reading the marketing, the "Inorganic Barium Compound" is might be a siccant (oil drying agent) which makes it exactly #(*^(*$@ paint.

Either that, or the following is untrue.

 

" All advanced specialized coatings of any brand or type require a chemical additive hardener for the coating to cure and harden(molecules cross-link). Many types of coatings require this hardener to be added to the coating at the timeof use, therefore, requiring the coating to be usedquickly before the coating starts to set and harden. Left-over coating is wasted. Moly Resin has the hardener already mixed into the coating but is protected from hardening by a temperature activated catalyst. The catalyst activates the curing and hardening process only when it is heated to itsoven curing temperature. This eliminates waste and allows for easy airbrush cleanup."

 

Now that we've seen the MSDS, and realize it's MOSTLY SOLVENTS, go re-read this paragraph.

15. Aren’t Moly Resin and other firearm coatings just really paints, just better than normal paints, but nevertheless paint? No. In the paint industry, the term “paint” technically applies to coatings that harden by solvent evaporation or in some instances reactive with oxygen to create a film. The solvent evaporation leaves behind a hard film that is referred to as the“”paint.Most paints can be dissolved back into their original solvent orslightly stronger solvent. This is why “paints” are not suitable for firearm refinishingsince bore cleaners, and other common solvents will remove them. Moly Resin and most other firearm coatings are called specialty coatings and harden by a chemical catalyst that lets various chemicals in the coating react and turn into a different substance. These chemicals are held inactive until the catalyst is triggered. Once thesecoating is cured, the coating no longer can bedissolvable in the strongest solvents, acids, etc. In additional “specialty coatings” can be applied in film thickness much less than a paint.

 

True answer? I'm just not a chemisty expert down to the nuts/bolts/semantics and it's impossible to define every trade secret. Is there a product labeled "Paint" which contains dissolved or un-linked phenol? You bet your sweet panties, there are gobs of phenol... uh... "Specialty Coatings"

The rest is pushing towards intentionally confusing the matter. Pushing HARD, and cutting it close.

Lots of paints are catalyzed... maybe even most, with rattle-can being a notable exception. As a matter of fact, solvent based paints are on their way out. 2K has been the standard in automotive since... well when was the last you heard of lacquer paint? 50 years? Even the original Rust-Oleum (whale oil formula) was catalyzed. Siccants are old as dirt LITERALLY.

To say that your catalyzed compund is unlike paint because paint is catalyzed... it hurts my head... but that's probably the VOC... trust me, my rant is on-point.

 


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chuck
( @chuck )
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 9
2020-01-08 21:55:30  

straitflite

moly resin is good stuff, will take the heat of machine guns and so forth, but only has ordinary resistance to abrasion.  on a pump operated gun for example,  you would get the usual marking from the slide.  i intend to do some fixed blade knives in the flat black and anticipate durability comparable to the best process powder coating, but you will have rub off of the finish by the edge at the very least.

gratewhite

the VOCs and solvents in moly resin are incidental.  you should have methyl ethyl ketone MEK on hand for thinning and cleaning your airbrush or spray gun so solvents are present.  the process is a .001 coating of the phenolic product by catalyst and heat.  i am sure to be missing whatever point you were making.

couple things.  chat on the net is that duracoat is repackaged sherwin williams polane lacquer.  nobody is knocking cerakote, if you have the funds, by all means.  ceracoat violates the chuck principle of quick/cheap/dirty.  any handy person can set up for moly resin finishes and have the capability of refinishing a gun for a few dollars in materials.  common enough for gun barrels to sustain damage and they are easily fixed and readily sent by carrier with no legal implications, point being you don't have to get upset looking down the barrel of your lovely piece.


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Gratewhitehuntr
( @gratewhitehuntr )
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 544
2020-02-12 21:46:24  

@straitflite

I was wrong about the chemicals I have. Not anodize, but chromate.

It's dangerous stuff, better to brush on, but if used properly paint sticks well.

There are 3 steps, look at the "Frequently bought together" listing on this page.

https://www.amazon.com/Henkel-Alodine-Conversion-Coating-Bonderite/dp/B0049CDP5W

Chromate conversion of aluminum is a solid long term strategy, if the item is clean before conversion. If something were sandblasted, then chromated, there would be no concerns about paint peeling off due to oxidization beneath the coating. In this case, any catalyzed  urethane, or just about any coating would be fine.

Here is the catalog, with charts!

 

Polane is urethane, at least as far as I can tell. It is vital to get paint nomenclature correct, mincing words is a recipe for ignorance.

80% percent solvent is not incidental, one standard of paint quality (specialty coatings, whatever) is the percentage of solids.

A sandblaster, media, compressor, airbrush, and effective PPE are not exactly cheap.

Further, personally speaking, my airbrush skills suck. I can spray ice cream out of a gun, but I outright suck with an airbrush.

To me, if I was a regular guy (I'm not) I would be extremely apprehensive about sandblasting a gun. Honestly, I don't see a lot of Otto Normalverbrauchers doing a real good job with the sandblaster. Miss some... dig a hole... shallow trench...

 

edit to shuffle a couple words, talk more about chromate conversion

 


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