Are CO2 air rifles (specifically, I'm thinking about a Beeman AR2078A) explosive sounding when compared to the rather dull(not too bad, I'd say) little sound of my Diana 34 Classic? Is it a "pop" from the Diana and a "roar" from the CO2? If the CO2 is indeed obtrusively loud, are there ways to lessen the noise? (Thinking of using 2 - 12 g cartridges) Please advise!
I have both a QB78, and an XS25 (Diana 34 clone). The 2078 isn't going to be too loud compared to higher power PCP's. There is a pop, but it doesn't have the mechanical noises of a springer. There are devices that you could add to a 2078 to soften the pop.
Generally speaking, you'd want a LDC with grub screws, or to tune it down some, or to get better neighbors.
Does that front sight come off? Do you want to? I dunno.
Is the TKO still en vogue? I dunno.
Does (latest fanboy heart throb) make a model with grub screws? I dunno.
Given the same bore diameter and length, same projectile, whichever platform starts with the lowest chamber pressure (using loosely) will have lower pressure at the muzzle. Yes, we ucould make up some exceptions, but CO2 runs around 800-1000psi, where PCPs run 3000spi, one has a lot more potential for muzzle pressure.
Putting the D34 on that scale would require math, beyond the depth of this question.
If you'd like to bubba the front sight, LDC.
Otherwise, I like CO2 adjusted to "slightly too fast to see the pellet" velocities, less loud than a 15fpe springer, and more shots too.
Kind of hate posting pictures here....need a better tutorial as they all double post.
Still...if you bought an AR2078 and want to use the "match" type sights, you can DIY.
Junk-yard AR2078 DIY muzzle attachment.
General rules of air gun forums: Could be an LDC, could be a brake, could be a dog whistle for all I care.
Assuming:
1. After all these years, the AR2078 hasn‘t changed construction. It’s a big one-piece sight housing, cross pinned to the barrel, with a slide on barrel weight behind it.
2. You can do hand tool mods.
3. Bought an AR2078 to use the aperture sights (would be so easy to just ditch the weight and the front shight housing and use whatever attaches directly to the barrel).
EXCUSE the crusty nature of the AR2078 front sight...it’s been in the “parts box” for something like 12 -13 years.
This is about how it’s set up as you get it.
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51049616721_752e8fbc32_w.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51049616721_752e8fbc32_w.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2kM5Cvx ]DSCN0119[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/144930793@N07/ ]Robert Dean[/url], on Flickr
Thinking about it, could just flip it around and end up with a large hollow section ahead of the crown and NOT change the visual of the front sight. (Could slide the barrel weight forward if you wanted to keep that).
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51049613691_1cdba6e568_w.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51049613691_1cdba6e568_w.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2kM5BBi ]DSCN0120[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/144930793@N07/ ]Robert Dean[/url], on Flickr
So you end up with a long (about 1 ¼”) of hollow sight base ahead of the end of the barrel.
The OD of that is about .776”.
As a kind of junk-keeper, there are lot of tubes that are about that in INSIDE diameter. PVC tube, Al. Tubes, steel tubes. I really couldn’t pass up “junk” that seemed like I could put it to use. Could have used what I think of a length of “old lady walker” tubing….or a bit of wind chime… PVC tube...or some random section from fording lawn chair.
(RETROSPECT: are some store bought metal ¾” tubing (depending on wall thickness) and some PVC tubing that would be close in a 1” OD size. COULD just take the sight housing for a fit-n-try session down the aisles of Home Depot. Only going to need 3-5” of tube).
.
Likely will be a little lose fitting. Could just shim it up in size if it’s just a little loose. That’s what I did for the above example, only needing to take up like .004” of slack. So long as it’s even (like one wrap that butts up).
Ended up using PVC tube...because I was going to “make stuff” that goes down into the inside diameter of that PCP tube, things were already “ready made” for that size internal diameter (and PVC glue is strong enough).
Now you have a longer large hollow section ahead of the muzzle….just needs to have whatever inserted .PCP glue friendly parts into the tube you care to make.
So it ended up like this when I was using the front sight.
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51048883353_5b71226e28_n.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51048883353_5b71226e28_n.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2kM1Svg ]DSCF0018-1_zps63663f55[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/144930793@N07/ ]Robert Dean[/url], on Flickr
Normally I'd use set screws to keep that "shimmed attachment" in place. If you choose to use Epoxy, you can always take the whole sight base off...heat (and ruin) the attachment and yank it off.
Same rifle converted to PCP and some stock refinement, I didn’t need the sights and did need a longer/better “muzzle attachment”.
the how brew worked fine with co2 and normal speeds....just didn't work as well as I wanted with higher speeds/air use. Scope seemd better for that, so didn't need/want the sights sitting out there un-used.
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51019687166_fc2884aec0_w.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51019687166_fc2884aec0_w.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2kJreuJ ]IMG_4805[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/144930793@N07/ ]Robert Dean[/url], on Flickr
Which is why the sight and the barrel weight were taken off and neglected 12-13 years ago.
-------------
Point being...if you want to use the “match” sights AND a muzzle attachment, you can do it with hand tools and a trip of two to Home Depot/Lowes.
Going to order an AR2078A when available, and get it tuned to shoot .22 @ ~650fps. The word I get is that the sound from the 2078 is about the same as that from the Diana 34 Classic. I can live with that, but if I find out that I'd like to lower the sound then the advice sounds good, although I do want to use the diopter sight or perhaps put on my Williams peep sight. So that might complicate things if I want to knock the sound down some.
But I thought the AR2078A of Ribbonstone pretty darned knock-out interesting and it has me asking questions. The adjustable shoulder butt attachment? Where from, put it in yourself, about how much? Needed after using it some? The tinting or repainting of some of the wood stock where hands and fingers go...looks nice. What is it and do you like it? No need for an adjustable cheek setup? While the idea of a few 12 gm. CO2 cylinders sounds just fine to me now, how do you like the large tank and did you outfit it yourself? Of course, this question: Do you like the stock, the presumed accuracy of the barrel, the diopter (before you put on the scope)? My need is squirrel control and I found that the scope on the Diana was a mistake due to jolting and that throwing off the scope's alignment. More to my eye's liking, overall, is to slip on over from seeing a squirrel to re-seeing it instantly through the Williams peep (BTW, with a Merit adjustable iris). So, Ribbonstone! I like your setup and I'd like to hear what you think of it. Same goes for Doug Wall and his QB78.
I'm a giant fan of biathlon skiing/shooting when the Winter Olympics come around, and never get enough of it. I have read where kids use the AR2078A as a biathlon training rifle, so there might be something to it for that. My sense is that it is not a true biathlon stock but a very nice look alike one. Reviews on shooting are all outstanding. I'm in for it...i.e., I'm hooked!
You know I like that old rifle...one of my favorites no matter what the $ spent.
Been running that unchanged (although an occasional o-ring reseal) for about 10 years. Did have the little “rat trap” spring that runs the slip sear break just recently..but was an easy fix...and I expect the regulator to start crapping out soon (has a 2008 born on date).
1. Stripped the factory finish off the stock.
2. STIPPLED the grip area the oid way...which takes forever...just a hammer and a punch. Mind numbing repetitive type work but it dpoesn take any real skill to do.
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51049694813_e4a3cd6059_z.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51049694813_e4a3cd6059_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2kM62HX ]DSCN0661[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/144930793@N07/ ]Robert Dean[/url], on Flickr
3. Stained the stippled area “ebony”.
4. Clear finished the rest of the “honey” colored stock with marine grade varnish (if it holds up to boat decks, troipical sun, salt water, and running feet….I’m there).
5. Butt pad was a plastic “Morgan” (brand) straight. The length spacers are cut off length of black PVC pipe. Just use longer screws to make up for the length of the spacers.
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51050418256_bfd6c7c453.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51050418256_bfd6c7c453.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2kM9JM7 ]db30b03d-f7bb-4ea3-9a5c-e3e55dcb24e7[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/144930793@N07/ ]Robert Dean[/url], on Flickr
6. HPA conversion was for shot count, not for power...for temperature stability.
Cut the full length tube off at the end of the tube to remove the 12gr. end cap threads, added a QB 79 block, inletted the stock to accept the block, and run it on a cheap 13ci HPA tank 850psi output.
Which is not high power for air….but 12 foot pounds (.177) for about 200 shots after adjusting seemed good enough for my uses.
With 12gr. Co2, it seemed to live best at about 9-9.5 foot pounds and about 50-55 shots per 2X12gr. fill up. Temperature senstive, but shot just as well if I kept that stable.
(don’t need that brass on/off...I just liked it for keeping track of how much air I used per shot.)
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51050419611_65c7d43ea7_z.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51050419611_65c7d43ea7_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2kM9Kbt ]DSCF2753[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/144930793@N07/ ]Robert Dean[/url], on Flickr
Seemed simple enough to me...took some time, but only needed hand tools to get it done.
So far as the adjustable cheek…from the rifles I have that do adjust, found I never adjusted them after they were “right”...could be rusted in place for all I know. Realized I adjuusted them once, and never adjusted the cheek again.
Do need the adjustable butt pad if I’m going from prone, to sitting, to standing.
When I’m on my game….
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51050569842_2116a72a79_w.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51050569842_2116a72a79_w.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2kMavQE ]0b08fb5a-7cfc-415a-b4ff-a7c20d27b747[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/144930793@N07/ ]Robert Dean[/url], on Flickr
Lets be fair....tank and QB79 tank block to convert it to HPA and the adjustable butt cost me about $100 in parts then (more like $150-$200 today). Just parts.
Simple work....but even at federal minimum wage, would have been 20-30 hours of work M(can't charge for the dry-time for the stock finish). Then maybe another 20 hours of work adjusting/testing/chronographing to get it to the 11.5-12 foot pound/ 200 shot goal.
TODAY...I'd just buy a Gauntet.
Fact if, I I hadn't put the time into this one before the Gantlet was even though of....I'd buy one and just adjust it to the energy level I want.
But I don't want to abandon this old girl for a new one ( that's what +40 years of marriage will do to a guy).
Ribbonstone, did you tune your rifle yourself? And if so, what did you do? I'd be game to try it but don't know what is involved, so some ideas might brighten things up for the DIY world. Have yet to find online instructions on how to tune the AR3078A or any of the previous versions. I see, on your fabulous target that you were getting 718fps and that is really impressive since the rifle is rated at 450 fps (.22 cal.). Was some of this power a by product of the external air tank?
And, gotta say, I do not know about HPA (what it stands for, what it is, how it differs from CO2 cartridges other than more shots/tank because it is a larger tank). But I think it adds weight, and maybe a pound or so?
Have you, did you, consider that a sling would be needed when firing standing up? I found that the Diana 34 was difficult to hold upright without a wavering barrel held out horizontally. The needed "artillery hold" means no sling and that's a disappointment to me for springer rifles. I'm hopeful the AR2078A will possibly be a bit lighter (??) and can use a sling and will be more useful in the field. As it is for me now, I have to sit to get a rigid position from which to fire, or lean against a door frame (and there aren't many door frames out in the field...), or be able to shot up into a tree.
40 years? Jes' startin' in the long stretch there fella. Good times then, now, and around the corner. Well over 60 years here....
Target is from a bench….if I could shoot that off hand, would be way-impressed.
Haven’t down much internal work to that one….that 718fps was on air, not co2. Co2 will be a slower than even 850psi air (about 630fps).
Don’t know where your 450fps came from….lots of QB’s have passed through and none of the .22’s came out the box that slow. Some were more like 530-550 (14.3gr.) slow, most were closer to 600.
Really didn’t need to go to air….co2 can shoot well so long as you keep the temp. stable.
Do find a sling helps. When I was shooting it as a co2 rifle with match sights, used one. When I scoped it and tanked it, removed the sling stud.
Has to be a bunch of tutorials on tuning, some simple some complicated, still on-line to search out. Most are more about upping the speed than any accuracy tips.
Not really a fan of hot rodding co2 rifles….with all the inexpensive PCP’s, if you want speed there is an easier/better solution. Did do the hot rod thing….but if speed is the goal, can get there with springers or PCP’s a lot easier.
Point being (for the original post) is that they do have a “pop”. Different “tone” than springers (more abrupt, different frequency sound) which make it harder to tell by ear.
Thanks much. Gives me an idea on how to proceed. So, I'm off and on to it. Cheers!
