New FWB Sport on ho...
 
Notifications
Clear all

New FWB Sport on home page of ARH  

  RSS

Faucetguy
(@faucetguy)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 128
November 2, 2019 13:28:08  

Do you suppose he is considering making parts for it? 

Very interesting!

www.airrifleheadquarters.com


Quote
Jim in SWMO
(@jim-in-swmo)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 267
November 2, 2019 14:38:24  

He's got a piston seal for it. He's had it listed a little over a year now. But I don't think he has any springs or kits for it yet.


ReplyQuote
ekmeister
(@ekmeister)
Member of Trade
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 663
November 2, 2019 19:18:18  

@jim-in-swmo

I just tuned one, and the above owner got it back into his hands a few days ago. He said he'll be putting it through its paces in the coming week or so. I'm eager to find out how he likes it, although it looked really good here, to my eye. I'm talking about overall, with the rifle and the trigger both having been tuned.

Of course, I used the JM piston seal that he sells for the rifle. Like he says, and like Mr. Gaylord said in his online review, the factory seal is a bit on the loose side in the tube.

Like James says, his seal is a much better fit. Loose piston seals might seem to give you good results at first, in the way of high velocity. But before long, they can start bypassing air in the compression chamber. When that happens, your velocity can actually decrease, and you start getting piston slam, too. Neither of those two things is any good.

I ever-so-slightly sized the seal for the proper fit in the specimen I had here. It's always nice when you've got a little extra material to work with. Because, as they say, you can always take some off, but you can't put any back on. The effort required in the sizing I'm talking about was very minimal. It comes out of the package as a near perfect fit, just the way it is.

Just to be clear, the sizing I did wasn't at the front of the seal, where the seal is actually made. That was literally perfect. I'm talking about near the rear of the seal, where it snaps over the end of the piston. I found it to be just a wee bit tighter than it needed to be in the one I had. There's no use in slowing the piston down without a reason.

However, I made it a point to retain some of the wiping ring on the rear. It not only wipes off excess lube, but it keeps the front of the piston centered, which reduces rattle/vibration during the shot cycle. It's a very nice feature of the ARH seal.

The factory seal doesn't have as positive a 'clamp' or 'click' onto the front of the piston, also as James says. His seal takes care of that. The way the factory seal fit on the piston reminded me of the OEM seal that was on the Air Arms Pro Elite rifles. It was recommended that the latter be glued on IIRC, to guarantee they didn't come off. That JM seal, with its positive click onto the end of the piston, isn't going anywhere. That is, definitely no glue required.

In my opinion, the SST spring that he recently discontinued is basically a perfect match for the rifle. I also used a couple of his spring guide power spacers to get the right fit and power balance. (With a slight modification to the ID of the spring, his ZRT spring can be used for a soft tune--I know because I tried one of those, too.  But, I felt it lost a little TOO much of the power that the rifle was designed to deliver, and thus altered its personality. Some may disagree, and therein lies a nice reason for the option).

In using the fully-spaced SST spring, you only lose a tiny bit of velocity versus the factory spring, but you also lose a little of the cocking effort, and it's pretty much a perfect match for the steel front guide that is permanently built into the piston. I consider that a decent trade-off.

I know about that spring because I had exactly one one of them saved in my bin of new spare parts, not knowing what I'd use it for when I bought it. It was originally a spring he used in a previous Beeman R1 kit. The factory spring in the FWB sport rifle looks to be pretty much a clone of the Beeman R1 factory spring. Therefore, it's loose on both the front and rear guides. That could cause some spring twang, like TG said, although the one I had really wasn't very twangy that I could tell, even before I swapped the spring.

I didn't make a custom rear spring guide for the rifle, although it briefly crossed my mind. I have a machinist friend who turns-out such things for me to my specifications, when needed. It IS something nice that could be added if someone wants to raise the spring fit to perfection, both front and rear. It's something nice that could be offered in a custom kit.

I think it would have to be made of naval brass, or steel, etc, because of the overall setup and the heft of the spring. In other words, I don't think this is the right application for plastics and synthetics.

I'll be interested to see what happens with the owner (Faucetguy) when he tests it for accuracy. I was planning to try a couple of different pellets, of course, but the very-first ones I used we're extremely accurate in my tests.  (JSB Exacts, 8.44 gr)--(no, I did NOT just say that's what will shoot best in your rifle if you buy one. Hopefully, by now, most seasoned shooters know better than that, LOL).

Although, of course, pellet preference can vary from one rifle to the next. But, Feinwerkbau seems to have really put a lot of effort into making that barrel right. The bore wasn't the least bit oversized, which tends to limit pellet selection. And, the crown looked so perfect, I didn't even bother to lap it like I have to do with a lot of others as part of a tune. I was able to stack pallets over and over on my little 9-yard test target range here. With the high quality of the barrel I observed, I expected it will also like at least a couple of other high quality pellets.

I did a full trigger tune. If you take that trigger apart, get a nice clear space to work, and I'm not talking about on a hard floor where a tiny ball bearing or spring(s) can roll away. 

I suggest that you work over something soft that doesn't allow parts to roll away. And, it's also a good idea to work over something with raised edges, like a large baking sheet, like I did. And, plan on using a couple of magnets to hold those parts when you remove them, because a few of them are definitely small.  They could easily get misplaced.

The good news about the results is that the trigger definitely benefited. When it got here, it was like the one Tom Gaylord tested, with about a pound and a half second stage let-off, and felt a bit stiff even though that doesn't sound like it's very heavy.

The problem is that the first stage came in at something very close to 1 lb. If you do the math, that makes for very little discernible difference between the two stages. And, that tends to make the trigger a bit unpredictable to my feel.

But, after the tune, the main difference was that the first stage weight decreased nicely. Then, the difference was much more discernible, and thus more predictable.

Here's the thing about the report I just made. Although I like the SST spring, like I said, it was discontinued last time I looked on the web page, which was about a week ago. You might think the answer is easy, that he'll just start making them again.

But, those rifles are not cheap. I don't think as many people are buying springers anymore. You know what I mean. I don't think he can justify making and stocking a spring that only sells one or two units per year.

Just remember, the factory spring does deliver pretty good performance. Someone with skill and experience could make custom guides and or bushings that would make the factory spring a better fit. Of course, I'm guessing those factory springs are not chrome alloy springs like the ones James sells. And there's a good reason he uses that kind of steel, as many of you already know.

In my opinion, the rifle fills a specific niche. It's for someone who really likes spring guns, the brand name, the company's heirloom reputation and their pursuit of high quality. If that sounds like you, you might like one of them.

Oh, yeah, sorry. As you might expect from them, the rifle is pretty to look at, and a pleasure to hold to the shoulder and in the hands. Unlike the 124/127 that preceded it, it now has the full-length stock that covers the breech block. Dr. Beeman called that look, 'elegant', when describing the R1 and R10 Deluxe. I agree. It also has nice checkering, and a nice butt pad, too.

If it was my gun, I think I might make the small modification to the front of the stock, on both sides, whereby you can adjust the pivot bolt tension without removing the action from the stock. You use a Dremel tool,  then some stain and poly, and you're all done.

The reason I suggest that,  is that , over time, that can need adjusted to maintain the best accuracy. Many of the RWS/Diana rifles have that same little hiccup in their design. It's easily rectified, including by an owner.

Now, with all that said, let's wait and see what the owner has to say. With no pun intended, he may shoot my review here full of holes when he says how he feels about his newly tuned rifle. Well, I tried.  🙂


ReplyQuote
Jim in SWMO
(@jim-in-swmo)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 267
November 2, 2019 21:48:26  

That's some good info for owners of the new FWB Sport, Ed. Unfortunately, I'm not one of them. And at the current retail price I doubt I will be anytime soon 😔. But even if I could afford one, for that kind of money I think they should come with a nice piece of walnut for the stock instead of beech. And I doubt that I'm alone in that thought. If Air Arms can put nice walnut on their springers I see no reason why FWB couldn't do the same. I know beech is probably a more stable wood for a stock but it's hard to beat the look of a nice piece of walnut. 😉 


ReplyQuote
ekmeister
(@ekmeister)
Member of Trade
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 663
November 2, 2019 23:02:56  

@jim-in-swmo

I'm really with you. I tried to make that clear. Like I said, I think the gun fills a very specific niche. I agree, at that price, not a lot of people are going to want to buy one. You can certainly buy a nice springer for less than that.

But, sort of quoting an old car ad, 'for discriminating buyers who are looking for that something special, the name Feinwerkbau stands alone in the minds and the hearts of many'. Something like that.

And, hey, you can tell all your friends you own one! When you're not shooting it, hang it on the wall where everybody can see it. When someone asks you about it, tell them the story behind the legend behind the name.

If I'm not mistaken, the company made quite a name for themselves at several of the Olympics, with their competition level guns. In case you hadn't noticed it in the photo on the ARH home page, that name is probably and prominently displayed on the side of the stock. To be honest, I think it looks kind of classy!


ReplyQuote
Faucetguy
(@faucetguy)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 128
November 2, 2019 23:42:46  

It was and is a pleasure to work with an old school pro like Ed K.  His attitude and resolve to get it right were impressive.  I did shoot a couple shots over the chrony when I got it back and it was of course shooting faster than Ed had noted.  It was dieseling and smelling up the house and I decided to wait till range day, next Wednesday , and put some lead thru it then.  I will do my best to offer up a honest review and post some groups as well.

stay tuned.

the other Ed


ReplyQuote
ekmeister
(@ekmeister)
Member of Trade
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 663
November 3, 2019 01:13:34  

@faucetguy

( I edited this post. I'm sorry, I was a bit grumpy the day I did it the first time. I hope it reads better now).

Yes, I usually leave them with a little bit of extra lube in the chamber, because I don't want to leave the gun short and the piston seal dry and skuawking. But, dieseling and smelling up the  house? That sounds awful! I trust whatever smell you're getting will soon diminish, and the thing will be in at least a semi acceptable state!

( Seriously, that sounds awful.  I trust it will soon calm down. I would never have sent it back like that. Maybe it got jarred around quite a bit in shipping, and a little bit of lube got shaken loose).

The first Ed.

And, I obviously didn't know that you were the other Ed. In other words, I didn't know your forum ID name. But please let me know how does on Wednesday, where you? That includes the trigger. I'm hoping you get some good things out of it!!


ReplyQuote
wijib
(@wijib)
Joined: 3 weeks ago
Posts: 2
July 27, 2020 13:01:50  

@faucetguy, just wondering how the FWB Sort is doing?  Spoke with Ed#1 and he thought you were very happy with the tune he did and the results.  I am seriously considering buying one and also looking at a 124.  Let me know what you think?


ReplyQuote
Faucetguy
(@faucetguy)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 128
July 27, 2020 14:05:33  

Champion choice has them at a good price.  It's a very nice sporter, and Ed K did a good job on the tune.

very accurate with most pellets.

 

 


wijib thanked
ReplyQuote
bf1956
(@bf1956)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 201
July 27, 2020 14:17:57  
Posted by: @faucetguy

Do you suppose he is considering making parts for it? 

Very interesting!

www.airrifleheadquarters.com

Don't see no FWB Sporter on home site...


ReplyQuote
ekmeister
(@ekmeister)
Member of Trade
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 663
July 28, 2020 00:55:38  

@bf1956

That's because these other posts were made 9 months ago.  JM, like a lot of online sellers, regularly change their page contents, including the photos.


ReplyQuote
JohnnyPiston
(@johnnypiston)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 116
July 28, 2020 09:15:23  
Posted by: @faucetguy

It was and is a pleasure to work with an old school pro like Ed K.  His attitude and resolve to get it right were impressive.  I did shoot a couple shots over the chrony when I got it back and it was of course shooting faster than Ed had noted.  It was dieseling and smelling up the house and I decided to wait till range day, next Wednesday , and put some lead thru it then.  I will do my best to offer up a honest review and post some groups as well.

stay tuned.

the other Ed

Ed, that doesn't sound good, in my opinion a gun that just came back from a tune should  not be dieseling. Excessive lube in the receiver means more dieseling over a longer amount of time to burn it off. The weak link in all of this is the piston seal, so its longevity and sealing properties may be compromised due to the extreme heat and pressure being generated with each dieseling shot... 

 

Edit: just saw this was an old post.  


ReplyQuote
ekmeister
(@ekmeister)
Member of Trade
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 663
July 28, 2020 10:47:18  
(@johnnypiston)
 
Ed, that doesn't sound good, in my opinion a gun that just came back from a tune should  not be dieseling. Excessive lube in the receiver means more dieseling over a longer amount of time to burn it off. The weak link in all of this is the piston seal, so its longevity and sealing properties may be compromised due to the extreme heat and pressure being generated with each dieseling shot... 

Edit: just saw this was an old post.  

------

Thank you for your concern and your comment. You raise an interesting point.  However, I trust that the rifle quickly settled down, and that brand-new-tune dieseling went away and stayed away for good in a hurry.

Since you made that comment, I wonder, have you ever shot a Weihrauch gun as it comes from the factory, or taking one apart? They often come so full of thick, excess lubricant that it takes a thousand shots or more for the dieseling to settle down, and the smoke to disappear from the barrel after you shoot a pellet. The rifle I sent him was probably fine in less than 50 shots.

There's an interesting and cautionary footnote on all of this:

All of the air guns I tune are permanently lubricated on the inside. All they ever need is some rust preventative added to the exterior metal of the rifle, to help deter rust.

But, there are some videos out there on the internet right this minute, from a couple of very well known sources, that demonstrate and instruct you to add oil down the transfer port of a springer every couple of hundred shots. And, some of the owner's manuals that come in the box with these airguns say the same thing.

In one of so-called instructional videos, as the smoke is billowing from the end of the barrel, it says,

"See the smoke coming out of the barrel after the shot now?? That shows you that everything is just right."

Yikes! You don't want to do that. You can wind up with a detonation that instantly breaks your mainspring.

I know what I'm doing when I tune a springer. I've been doing it for more than 20 years. The instances where I would send a gun back with problematic lubrication would be VERY-few and far between, if ever.

I wish the owner would have made some sort of a comment about that as a follow-up, but he never chose to do so.  Anyway, I hope that clears it up, once and for all.


ReplyQuote
ekmeister
(@ekmeister)
Member of Trade
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 663
July 28, 2020 11:02:47  
Posted by: @johnnypiston
Posted by: @faucetguy

It was and is a pleasure to work with an old school pro like Ed K.  His attitude and resolve to get it right were impressive.  I did shoot a couple shots over the chrony when I got it back and it was of course shooting faster than Ed had noted.  It was dieseling and smelling up the house and I decided to wait till range day, next Wednesday...

stay tuned.

the other Ed

Ed, that doesn't sound good, in my opinion a gun that just came back from a tune should  not be dieseling. Excessive lube in the receiver means more dieseling over a longer amount of time to burn it off. The weak link in all of this is the piston seal, so its longevity and sealing properties may be compromised due to the extreme heat and pressure being generated with each dieseling shot... 

 

Edit: just saw this was an old post.  

Thank you for your concern and your comment. You raise an interesting point.

However, two things. First, please notice that the owner was shooting indoors.  That makes the presence of any residual, brand-new-tune smoke smell that much more evident. He might not have noticed it if he'd been outdoors. Next, I trust that the rifle quickly settled down, and that brand-new-tune dieseling went away and stayed away for good in a hurry. I wish the owner would have posted a comment about that. But, he never did.

Since you made that comment, I wonder, have you ever shot a Weihrauch gun as it comes from the factory, or taken one apart? They often come so full of thick, excess lubricant that it takes a thousand shots or more for the dieseling to settle down, and the smoke to disappear from the barrel after you shoot a pellet. I guess they want to make sure that the gun isn't dry. But, that's definitely not how I lubricate them. The rifle I sent him was probably fine in less than 50 shots.

There's an interesting and cautionary footnote on all of this:

All of the air guns I tune are permanently lubricated on the inside. All they ever need is some rust preventative added to the exterior metal of the rifle, to help deter rust. I try to include a note on every packing slip, with every rifle I tune, that says: "Add no internal lubricants, ever."

But, there are some videos out there on the internet right this minute, from a couple of very well known sources, that demonstrate and instruct you to add oil down the transfer port of a springer every couple of hundred shots. And, some of the owner's manuals that come in the box with these airguns say the same thing.

In one of those so-called instructional videos, as the smoke is billowing from the end of the barrel, it says,

"See the smoke coming out of the barrel after the shot now?? That shows you that everything is just right."

Yikes! You don't want to do that. You can wind up with a detonation that instantly breaks your mainspring.

I know what I'm doing when I tune a springer. I've been doing it for more than 20 years. The instances where I would send a gun back with problematic lubrication would be VERY-few and far between, if ever.

Again, I wish the owner would have made some sort of a comment about that as a follow-up, but he never chose to do so.  Anyway, I hope that clears it up, once and for all. Yes, excessive, copious internal lubrication can cause serious problems. No, that's not the way I lubricate them when I do my work.


ReplyQuote
Faucetguy
(@faucetguy)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 128
July 28, 2020 11:14:40  

Not to worry, it stopped smelling up the joint after a few shots.  I'm very pleased with Ed's tune.

I just bought a Hawke 4-12 for it and will be shooting it on Sunday at our Silly Wet shoot.  Turkeys better watch out.

here is some chrony data

 

image

 


ekmeister thanked
ReplyQuote
ekmeister
(@ekmeister)
Member of Trade
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 663
July 28, 2020 11:54:50  

@faucetguy

I'm glad the smoke smell quickly cleared up. I thought it would.

The velocity is nice and steady. That's good. At first glance, I thought it was shooting a little slower than I would have expected. But, then I saw that you're shooting the 10.3 grain heavy pellets. Considering that, those numbers look about right.

Thanks again.


ReplyQuote
Faucetguy
(@faucetguy)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 128
July 28, 2020 12:31:43  

Here's an old R9 for comparison

 

image

ReplyQuote
JohnnyPiston
(@johnnypiston)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 116
July 28, 2020 12:46:10  
Posted by: @faucetguy

Not to worry, it stopped smelling up the joint after a few shots.  I'm very pleased with Ed's tune.

I just bought a Hawke 4-12 for it and will be shooting it on Sunday at or Silly Wet shoot.  Turkeys better watch out.

here is some chrony data

 

image

 

All is well that ends well and if the dieseling (of which BTW there are various intensities) cleared shortly after then your piston seal will be very grateful😉

 

Isn't 5mm the minimum caliber required for turkey hunting in CA or has that changed?


ReplyQuote
Faucetguy
(@faucetguy)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 128
July 28, 2020 13:01:31  

JP not those turkeys, these:

 

image

 

And cluckers, and Rams.


ReplyQuote
ekmeister
(@ekmeister)
Member of Trade
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 663
July 28, 2020 14:39:14  

@faucetguy

LOL. That's funny.


ReplyQuote
JohnnyPiston
(@johnnypiston)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 116
July 28, 2020 17:36:33  
Posted by: @ekmeister
(@johnnypiston)
 
Ed, that doesn't sound good, in my opinion a gun that just came back from a tune should  not be dieseling. Excessive lube in the receiver means more dieseling over a longer amount of time to burn it off. The weak link in all of this is the piston seal, so its longevity and sealing properties may be compromised due to the extreme heat and pressure being generated with each dieseling shot... 

Edit: just saw this was an old post.  

------

Thank you for your concern and your comment. You raise an interesting point.  However, I trust that the rifle quickly settled down, and that brand-new-tune dieseling went away and stayed away for good in a hurry.

Since you made that comment, I wonder, have you ever shot a Weihrauch gun as it comes from the factory, or taking one apart? They often come so full of thick, excess lubricant that it takes a thousand shots or more for the dieseling to settle down, and the smoke to disappear from the barrel after you shoot a pellet. The rifle I sent him was probably fine in less than 50 shots.

There's an interesting and cautionary footnote on all of this:

All of the air guns I tune are permanently lubricated on the inside. All they ever need is some rust preventative added to the exterior metal of the rifle, to help deter rust.

But, there are some videos out there on the internet right this minute, from a couple of very well known sources, that demonstrate and instruct you to add oil down the transfer port of a springer every couple of hundred shots. And, some of the owner's manuals that come in the box with these airguns say the same thing.

In one of so-called instructional videos, as the smoke is billowing from the end of the barrel, it says,

"See the smoke coming out of the barrel after the shot now?? That shows you that everything is just right."

Yikes! You don't want to do that. You can wind up with a detonation that instantly breaks your mainspring.

I know what I'm doing when I tune a springer. I've been doing it for more than 20 years. The instances where I would send a gun back with problematic lubrication would be VERY-few and far between, if ever.

I wish the owner would have made some sort of a comment about that as a follow-up, but he never chose to do so.  Anyway, I hope that clears it up, once and for all.

Ed K, you asked if I've ever been inside an HW. Yes, many over the years. Yes some new HW's are over lubed and this is nothing new. I personally tune and maintain several of my personal competition/target springers (HW/AA/Walther) but a select few have received some professional work. Per my standards I would not be happy to receive a professionally tuned rifle that had violent dieseling (the extreme detonating type: loud crack and smoke.), be it one shot or 50. To each their own.

Apparently all is well with the owner's FWB Sport now and that's great. I once owned an FWB Sport (new model) and while proving to be very accurate the stock design never warmed up to me. 

I do know from experience the damage that ONE single, violent dieseling shot can do to a new piston seal. Case in point: Brand new Walther LGU Master Pro in .177. It did not matter because I already had plans to optimize the powerplant on that particular rifle: replace the piston with one of Tony Leach's flat profiled low friction piston seal , opening the transfer port for improved efficiency, spring replacement for ease of cocking effort and to dial out piston bounce (open coiled design, slightly more preload) along with other mods. No harm done. 

Again, I see this was an old post that got dug up. At any rate it is good to see that several months later all is well with Ed C's rifle. 

Jonathan


ReplyQuote
ekmeister
(@ekmeister)
Member of Trade
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 663
July 29, 2020 03:18:21  

@johnnypiston

Johnny, you keep bringing this up. But, you've totally misunderstood. I'm going to be blunt to make this very clear, in order to protect my reputation:

If you'll go back and read the owners own comments just a few posts back, he said the dieseling cleared up "after a few shots". Indoor shooting makes any smell of smoke more noticeable. Experienced shooters know that.

With that said, I won't entertain any more comments about my lack of abilities or supposed shortcomings in this regard. And, I don't do posting wars. The only way to win is not to play.


bf1956 thanked
ReplyQuote
JohnnyPiston
(@johnnypiston)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 116
July 29, 2020 08:12:15  
Posted by: @ekmeister

@johnnypiston

Johnny, you keep bringing this up. But, you've totally misunderstood. I'm going to be blunt to make this very clear, in order to protect my reputation:

If you'll go back and read the owners own comments just a few posts back, he said the dieseling cleared up "after a few shots". Indoor shooting makes any smell of smoke more noticeable. Experienced shooters know that.

With that said, I won't entertain any more comments about my lack of abilities or supposed shortcomings in this regard. And, I don't do posting wars. The only way to win is not to play.

Ed K,

I keep bringing this up? You asked me a question and I answered you.

I've totally misunderstood what exactly? If you read what I previously wrote, I acknowledge that all is well. I also mentioned that there are varying intensitities of dieseling. At this point I don't care to know what kind of dieseling the OP previously experienced; all is well now. 

 The example given in my reply to your question was my own, and it was of the violent dieseling type. I made that clear.

There's no posting war Ed, and there won't be. I don't have time for that nor does this merit such a response.

Hopefully this clears things up. 

 


ReplyQuote
bf1956
(@bf1956)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 201
July 29, 2020 11:35:19  

 @ekmeister  DA ! I didn't realize that. Thanks...


ReplyQuote