New Diana LP8 Power...
 

New Diana LP8 Power Shocker! Any advise?  

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Captain Air
(@captain-air)
Joined: 2 weeks ago
Posts: 6
2019-12-03 14:53:22  

Hi folks ,

I just bought my first Diana pistol the New Diana LP8 in .22cal. Apparently I'm the only one who has one in 22. I needed the power level high in this pistol purchase and especially for $300. My brother and I have been building his cottage for 2 years and we are in the bush. Lots of giant rats snakes etc. So a nice pellet pistol would be a good tool. But after I did some chrono tests on the LP8 it only managed a 351 fps with 14.3grs and a 318 with a 15.9 grs. Nowhere near the 495 fps in .22cal the Canadian version is advertised at. I asked AOA and they said it should be at 499 fps with the CPs. 

Any advise on what to do next to bring this power up proper? I appreciate any help . Thank you,

Captain Air 


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ekmeister
(@ekmeister)
Member of Trade
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 497
2019-12-03 15:13:57  
Posted by: @captain-air

Hi folks ,

I just bought my first Diana pistol the New Diana LP8 in .22cal. Apparently I'm the only one who has one in 22. I needed the power level high in this pistol purchase and especially for $300. My brother and I have been building his cottage for 2 years and we are in the bush. Lots of giant rats snakes etc. So a nice pellet pistol would be a good tool. But after I did some chrono tests on the LP8 it only managed a 351 fps with 14.3grs and a 318 with a 15.9 grs. No where near the 495 fps in .22cal the Canadian version is advertised at. I asked AOA and they said it should be at 499 fps with the CPs. 

Any advise on what to do next to bring this power up proper? I appreciate any help . Thank you,

Captain Air 

I remember reading a few years back that they didn't deliver as much velocity as they were rated for. As to whether that's changed since then, I haven't heard a thing.

Just now, I did find a video on YouTube that seems to indicate you have to get one in .177 caliber to get 500 fps. of it. My copy and paste efforts don't always work from my phone. But, this one looks like it might do okay. Let's give it a try.

Just to let you  know, this video says it's from 5 years ago. Maybe something has changed since then. That is, maybe the velocity has increased since then. If you look around on there on YouTube some more you may find another video with a more recent timestamp. It may have upgraded velocities. I didn't look real hard. But, they're easy enough to find on there.

Safe and Happy Shooting!

Ed, the Airgun TuneMeister

https://www.airguntunemeister.com/


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Captain Air
(@captain-air)
Joined: 2 weeks ago
Posts: 6
2019-12-03 17:35:16  

Thank you Ed ,

I saw the video. Well looks like maybe they drilled a hole in the Canadian pistols plus or even a very bad seal. 

It should be at 440 fps at least in .22cal. Mine is a .22cal . 

Maybe I'll have it take it apart, have a look.

Captain Air

 

 


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ekmeister
(@ekmeister)
Member of Trade
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 497
2019-12-03 18:44:49  

@captain-air

You're welcome. I could swear that somewhere along the way, after it was first introduced, something was done so that the velocity was in fact improved a bit. Now I know that's vague, but it's the best I can do. I don't remember the details.

If you're talking about drilling out a transfer port, be very careful there. If you overdo it even by just a tiny bit, your velocity will go down, not up, and the thing can wind up with a more harsh shot cycle.

As far as a bad seal, I don't know whether you're talking about a piston seal or a breech seal. Breech seals are super simple to test in most makes and models. Other than try to find a replacement seal that's bigger, a few wraps of waxed dental floss under the factory seal will usually tell you in a hurry if that's a problem. Then you can look for a permanent fix.

In fact, if it's too hard to find something that's bigger to fit, waxed dental floss located under a seal isn't going to go anywhere and it isn't going to shrink. It can be used as a permanent fix, or at least until you see the velocity drop off again. I prefer the waxed version because it's a little easier to install, and tends to stay put once at a little pressure put on it.

(Edit: After reading a comment or two, I better add something here. Just to be clear, when mentioning  the possible use of dental floss, I'm referring to breech seals that still look good, with no deterioration, but leave one wondering if they might have shrunk a little, or might not have been big enough in the first place. In other words,  I'm talking about sizing issues, not breech seals that are falling apart. Addressing size issues is where the dental floss fix underneath the seal may prove useful.

OTOH, if the seal shows signs of deterioration, cracking, chunks missing, Etc, it's time for a new seal. Dental floss isn't going to fix that. You might be able to use the floss as a temporary TEST if the deterioration isn't too bad. But a seal that's falling apart certainly can't be left in place or trusted, dental floss or no).

PLEASE, just don't let an ugly rumor get started here that I'm tuning air guns with dental floss for a breech seal (!!!). I've never shipped a single gun out of here with dental floss under the breech seal. But, if it was my gun, in a pinch I might do it because I'd know it was there, and needed looked at again from time to time to make sure it was still doing its job.

Safe and Happy Shooting!

Ed, the Airgun TuneMeister

https://www.airguntunemeister.com/


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marflow
(@marflow)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 662
2019-12-03 20:37:22  

first .22 caliber lp8 were not imported but were made

now the seals in the pistol are the same as the model 5's and 6's so they are easy to find

if the breech seal look flat, crushed, it need a new one and when you change it out you may find shim washers under the O-ring, maybe up to 3

they are used to take the droop out of the pistol

the breech  seal is a 7mm x 2.5mm and they need to be 2.5mm not under

I bought some from o-rings and more and they were 2.53+ and they work well where as the o-ring you get from Air Rifle Headquarters  are under and cause a problem with POI

the shim are .13mm thick

with all that said the piston seal could be bad and or the spring or both 

just a note the ARH pistol seal are oversize  and because they are not easy to install be aware of that

just some info

Mike


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desertplinkerforlife
(@desertplinkerforlife)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 40
2019-12-03 21:39:21  

Caption Air I have the LP 8 in 177 and love it. But, it sounds to me like your needs are different from that pistol's  platform. If you want a pistol for pesting monsters I would look at a PCP. The Mac 1 LD PCP or Co2 would do you well. 500 fps in .22. 


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Captain Air
(@captain-air)
Joined: 2 weeks ago
Posts: 6
2019-12-03 22:42:39  

@ekmeister

I here you. Absolutely I'm usually very quiet about others efforts especially to help me out. That sounds like something I can do I think. Thanks a bunch Ed. I was hoping I could try something myself with out sending the gun out as I always do. When I have some luck  with the LP8 I'll let you how it turned out.  Have a good night ,

Captain Air 

 


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Captain Air
(@captain-air)
Joined: 2 weeks ago
Posts: 6
2019-12-03 22:49:44  

@marflow

Hi Mike , that's a good chunk of info thank you very much. I look forward to trying . Such a nice shooter I hope I can use your kind advice and fix it. I hate leaving stuff sub-par. Great to know something is wrong my new pistol instead of hearing, that's what it is. Have a good a night ,

Captain Air 


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Captain Air
(@captain-air)
Joined: 2 weeks ago
Posts: 6
2019-12-03 22:53:59  

@desertplinkerforlife

Hi there Desert Plinker , I was thinking of doing just that right before I purchased the Diana lol. I  guess I might do that for a future pistol buy. I had a Falcon Pistol called but it was fussy. Thank you ,

Captain Air 


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marflow
(@marflow)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 662
2019-12-04 02:26:08  

well Captain I think the LP8 is ok as big heavy spring pistols go but compared to all the Diana pistol of the past the trigger sucks

but if you have enough imagination you can make it very good, would you be happy if the trigger only moved 1.5mm and be lighter on top of that and the safety still works, well it can be done

and for those that are looking for word grips, they are not made any more

 

Mike


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Hector J Medina G
(@hector-j-medina-g)
Member of Trade
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 337
2019-12-04 09:44:34  
Posted by: @captain-air

Hi folks ,

I just bought my first Diana pistol the New Diana LP8 in .22cal. Apparently I'm the only one who has one in 22. I needed the power level high in this pistol purchase and especially for $300. My brother and I have been building his cottage for 2 years and we are in the bush. Lots of giant rats snakes etc. So a nice pellet pistol would be a good tool. But after I did some chrono tests on the LP8 it only managed a 351 fps with 14.3grs and a 318 with a 15.9 grs. Nowhere near the 495 fps in .22cal the Canadian version is advertised at. I asked AOA and they said it should be at 499 fps with the CPs. 

Any advise on what to do next to bring this power up proper? I appreciate any help . Thank you,

Captain Air 

C-A:  Have you checked your Federal and Local laws?

The laws in Canada state that an airgun, to be free from Firearm Acquisition Licensing requirements needs to shoot under 500 fps  AND have a M.E. UNDER 5.7 Joules (4.2 ft-lbs).

So, your LP-8 is still "on the money" as far as FEDERAL  FIREARM ACT legality is concerned.

There is a loop under the Firearm Act, that will NOT apply under the Criminal Code: A gun CAN develop more than 5.7 Joules as long as it does not exceed the 500 fps threshold AND is used ONLY for lawful purposes, as soon as a crime (ANY) is committed, the user will be charged under the Criminal Code.

Send an EMail to the RCMP : cfp-pcaf@rcmp-grc.gc.ca 

You can read the details here:

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/en/firearms/specific-types-firearms#ag  

The LP-8 is, in essence a "small rifle" in the sense that it acts, functions, and behaves exactly as a small piston rifle would. It is technically capable of Muzzle Energies of up to 8.6 Joules or about 6.34 ft-lbs (which also makes them illegal in the UK).

There are several ways through which the "importer of record"/retailer could have been covering his behind and restricted/detuned the gun in some way but you would need to look into it as an individual and be prepared to be held accountable for your actions.

PERSONALLY, I think that your gun was assembled from a Canadian 0.177" LP-8 (495 fps with a 0.177" pellet) and the barrel was swapped. I have NO records of a 0.22" cal. version ever being sold.

I have interphased with the RCMP a few times on behalf of Steyr and DIANA, and have found them more than rational and sensible. I have nothing but the highest opinion of their technical firearms guys. Talk to them and find out what are YOUR options. Of course, you will need to talk to the provincial and city (if any) governments to make certain that what you can do will not backfire on you (pun intended).

HTH, keep well and shoot straight!

 

 

 

 

 

 

HM


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Doug Wall
(@doug-wall)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 118
2019-12-04 10:48:01  

I don't even find the LP8 listed in .22 anywhere. Are you sure it's an LP8, and not the Browning 800? One of the reviews that I saw on the LP8 showed pretty poor accuracy. Between low velocity, and poor accuracy, it's not the combination you need for hunting "giant rats". AOA , Umarex, or Pyramyd,  don't list the LP8 in .22.

What you really need is a nice carbine length rifle, in .22, with the max velocity that you can have (Canada? 500fps), and a nice, close focusing AO scope


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marflow
(@marflow)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 662
2019-12-04 14:22:22  

at one time I asked Umarex if they had .22 barrels for the LP8 and Mark told me they never imported pistol in .22 and had no barrels and the reason I knew they had made .22 barrel was, they were listed on a German gun site but they wouldn't ship to the states

so they were made in .22 caliber and maybe a Canadian company imported them and one migrated to the states

after digging around last night I did find out that the  Diana 5 mag uses the same spring as the LP8, part 304170 and that spring is used in a Diana model 20 TO1 also

now anyone that knows the 5 mag will know that pistol didn't live up to the power ratings without using spit wads, so I find it curious that the same spring was used in the LP8 and the pistol performed way better

but I guess that neither  here nor there at this point 

Mike


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ekmeister
(@ekmeister)
Member of Trade
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 497
2019-12-04 14:46:50  

This thread all got started about 500 fps. in .22 caliber. 

I think the .22 cal. Beeman P1, aka the HW 45, probably got pretty close with a light pellet. Maybe not a 14.3 gr. mid-weight, but with a light one. I remember working on one of those pistols in 20 caliber, and it got the advertised velocity with a light pellet, I just can't remember what that advertised velocity is at the moment.

The frame of that pistol was pretty huge compared to the 1911 World War 1 era pistol that it set out to copy, or at least emulate, to some extent. Some of you may remember the photos of those two sitting side-by-side in the Beeman catalog, where it contrasted the difference. And, in harmony with another comment on this thread, or maybe in that video, the frame had to be big to produce that much velocity with a spring pistol.

I'd love to own one, although probably in 177 caliber, to keep it as flat shooting as possible. However, if somebody wanted to just plain give me one, I'd take it in any caliber I could get it! LOL.

Safe and Happy Shooting!

Ed, the Airgun TuneMeister

https://www.airguntunemeister.com/


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chrisT
(@christ)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 26
2019-12-04 15:10:58  

a lot of companies used to get their velocity measurements using 6-6.5 gr .177 pellets , like something in 10 grain or less for .22.  Add in all the various European laws/ Canuck not being much different ( they are all stuck in the 16 and 17 century feudal systems mindsets) and performance wise for that design era they were less than adequate for the OP's purpose better off with the  old Benjimin or crossman pump up units (if you remember those) and can find one. 

There areas here in the colonies that have draconian rules as well right down to spitballs and straws.


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Captain Air
(@captain-air)
Joined: 2 weeks ago
Posts: 6
2019-12-04 21:36:10  

@ekmeister

Hi Ed, I had many P1s and springer gas ram pistols just never had Diana pistol. I'm mainly a hand gun guy. I use to teach our police officers how to shoot there service pistols. I think I was 16 years old then. I grew up with ETF , Detectives and special operations individuals way back. We all trained together when I was 12 years old. We only had 2 schools in Canada that could teach the police self defense. Kempo was one. I shot Olympic style free hand. I was trained by a Hungarian Olympic marksman when I was 12 years old. I only referred to him as Mr. Papp. So I love a good old springer hand gun that recoils. The more the better. This Diana has enough engine room for hot rodding for sure. To 499fps . I have all my licences and prohibited too but we don't care about power past that of a Webley Alecto or a Crosman pumper ... they all shoot here in Canada 499 fps in the big .22 bore for decades. You don't need more than that in a pellet pistol, but I like to have it operate right at Critical Mass . 

Captain Air 


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