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Need a new spring for my FWB 124

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_218bee
(@_218bee)
New York
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 64
Topic starter  

Can anyone point me to where to buy a new spring for my FWB 124?  Its shooting Boxed CP 7.9's at around 650 fps and I think it could do better.  Don't want to reinvent the wheel here, just a new factory spring or equivelant.

Any help here would help.

thanks

email is fastest;

Spoiler
ds1911@verizon.net


   
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Jim_in_SWMO
(@jim_in_swmo)
Missouri
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 712
 

Have you checked JM's website? He has 2 spring kits for the FWB 124/127 plus what he calls a "Twister" spring that fits the factory guide.

http://www.airrifleheadquarters.com/page/page/251483.htm


   
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(@beeman22)
Michigan
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 115
 

Macarri (Air Rifle headquarters) is the only place I know of, but I'm sure others can chime in.

But before you order, are you sure it isn't the breech seal?  Try laying a piece of tissue paper over the top of the gun where the barrel and receiver meet and shooting it (obviously with a pellet loaded and pointed at a safe backstop!) If the tissue moves, air is leaking out around the breech seal. It's easiest to observe if it's resting on bag.  Last one I tried this on was shooting low 600's very consistently and the seal looked ok, but it (the blast of air leaking) was strong enough to tear a small hole in the kleenex each time I fired it. 

If you do end up needing a replacement, I've had a couple rebuilt with the Macarri "slightly softer" kit. Instead of about 800, you end up in the 725-750 range. Makes the gun shoot a lot sweeter though. If power isn't a huge deal for you, it's something to consider. 


   
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_218bee
(@_218bee)
New York
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 64
Topic starter  

Went to the site, as I have a few tech questions but there's no phone number to talk to a human.  Little disappointed.  I will use this for pesting, so power is probably the priority right now.  Will try the tissue paper trick later.  The rebuild kit that came with it had a replacement Oring/breech seal but when I installed it, the barrel droop was horrendous and gun shot 6" low at 25 yards.  I put the old seal back, as it was still pliable, but caused no droop.  Also the kit came with two black plastic bushings about 9mm in diameter.  Can't seem to find them on the factory schematic.  Maybe since its a early, 4-digit serial# they dont apply?


   
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(@bob_in_wv)
West Virginia
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 377
 

If it has never been worked on before, better get a new piston seal too.  The old white ones crumble after a while and yes a new breech seal.

 

Bob in WV


   
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Jim_in_SWMO
(@jim_in_swmo)
Missouri
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 712
 

This info from JM's site may be of help with both the new breech seal you have and the plastic bushings.

The breech seal info.

http://www.airrifleheadquarters.com/catalog/item/251483/43065.htm

And from what you describe, it sounds like the bushings you have may be these washers.

http://www.airrifleheadquarters.com/catalog/item/251483/9976144.htm


   
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_218bee
(@_218bee)
New York
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 64
Topic starter  

Great info..just what I needed..thanks

Bob in WV, I already resealed and lubed it.  Old seal was Kaput.

 

FWB 124 Seal
FWB 124 Seal

   
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Jim_in_SWMO
(@jim_in_swmo)
Missouri
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 712
 

After seeing the pics of the new piston seal you put in I have a couple questions for you. How did the new seal fit in the tube? Was it a pretty snug fit? A too tight piston seal can easily rob you of power.


   
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RedFeather
(@redfeather)
Virginia
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 199
 

That old seal looked original. You mentioned you have a low s/n gun. IIRC, those have a slightly smaller compression tube (?). Might want to search the old forum archive on that.

Re calling, I see the brick and mortar store is closed. On the website order link it says best way to contact is email.


   
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_218bee
(@_218bee)
New York
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 64
Topic starter  

Yes I read that the earlier guns had smaller diameter tubes, but the seal I received in my kit fit perfectly. I mean not too tight and definitely not too loose. The gun is in the low #4,000 serial range. Pretty sure its the original spring from the 1970's .  Just curious, the gun seems to like boxed CP's and I have a big stockpile. Can I ask about what velocitys can I expect with CP lites as well as heavies?

again, thanks all.


   
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(@ekmeister)
Texas
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Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 739
 

Allow a bare minimum of a week for the new ARH piston seal to relax a little and your velocity to increase to its new baseline number--that's even if everything else is perfect.

I call those remnants of the old seal "cookie crumbles'--the factory 124 seal is notorious for turning into a pile of them after a set amount of time, even if you do no shooting. 

Oh, yes, speaking of that, you need to make sure you got all the remnants of the old seal out of the far end of the receiver tube before you reassemble the rifle with the new parts.  That's essential if you want to get good velocity.  Some of the old seal is well known to sort of glue itself into the end of the receiver tube near the transfer port and thwart the new seal from completing its function. 

It can take a sleuth-ful inspection down into the tube with good light like a 2 AA bulb Mini Maglight flashlight to see if all of the pieces of the old seal have been completely removed.  If they havent, although it's sort of a tedious process, you'll get good returns in the velocity department if you get all of the old debris out of there.  Make sure you check around the perimeter at the far end of the tube--that's where the debris tends to hide.


   
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_218bee
(@_218bee)
New York
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 64
Topic starter  

Thanks ekmeister...I took my time with this rebuild and the part you mention above about the old seal remnants in the tube end was the worst part of the job.  Three crescent slivers of the old seal lip were adhered pretty well to the tube's end.  Got them out with a long, sharp screwdriver, wrapped with protective tape, leaving only the last 1/8" exposed.  Got it all out and its good to go.  I have about 150 pellets on the new seal. I do beleive its getting smoother.  Groups have shrunk as well.  It shoots like a PCP gun off a sandbag at 25 yards. 10 shots under a dime with Boxed CP 7.9's.  Hold sensitive, though without the bag but I knew that going in.  I just want it to shoot the CP 7.9's at 800-850 if possible. Right now its only doing about 650 with them, 740 with JSB 7.3's


   
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(@hooligan)
California
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 132
 

218bee

That doesn't seem too far off base for an original spring in early production 124's, perhaps a little low for 7.3's, I think more in the low 700's. With new spring and proper self tune  I would expect JSB 8.4 / H&N FTT 8.64 to shoot between 760 and 785 fps. This has been my results in home tuning using Maccari kits in early production 124's.

I would reccomend jsb 8.4 and FTT 8.6, and believe they will produce higher velocities than Crosman and have found them to be more accurate. All my 124's prefer FTT'S for accuracy but many on this forum have found jsb's as the preferred pellet. Let the rifle decide.

Cheers

 


   
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(@ekmeister)
Texas
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I want to add that when I've used various Maccari/ARH springs and kits for the 124 in the past, it was no problem to get about 780-800 fps. with CPL's after a little break-in.  I haven't tried any of his current springs or kits for the 124, but if they're like he made before--made to shoot in the same approx. velocity range that is--it does seem that your rifle is shooting slow, like you're thinking.

In fact, it gets better.  Notice these statements I just copied from his site about the Pro Mac 124-127 Slightly Softer Kit:

"Velocity is only down on average of 5% or so".  (compared to the standard Pro Mac Kit).

"Still above factory FWB specs. Very high 700's to 800 fps in a good gun ( 7.9 gr)"

I think that pretty much says it all.  Something seems amiss in your rifle, although it must be remembered IN A GOOD GUN are very-important words.  Not every rifle will shoot the same, even ones that came off the production line with consecutive serial numbers!

Here's the link to the place/kit from which I copied the above statements:

http://www.airrifleheadquarters.com/catalog/item/251483/9246105.htm

 


   
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(@hooligan)
California
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 132
 

218bee,

Here's a bit of trivia that you may not know about of which I stumbled upon in my earlier researches and purchases. You mentioned rifle having a 4 digit serial number, If Beeman marked rifle it would make it Beeman's San Anselmo address, Beeman's first address.  I believe he was at this address in 1973 possible as early as 1972 through 1974 when the Beemans moved to their San Rafael address. 

Though Beemans first address was short lived their FWB124,s had two different markings stamp on the right side of receiver indicating their first address. The earliest stamping read:

Made in Germany for Beeman's

Precision Airguns,SanAnselmo,CAL

Second marking read as follows:

Imported by Beeman

San Anselmo CAL

I have one of each of these stampings and both are 4 digit serial numbers. A side note: the oldest serial number actually has a 0 in front of the 4 digits (actually making it a 5 digit, I suppose, yet on the other rifle, slightly newer the 0 is omitted. 

Lots of little details that make collecting and shooting these guns more enjoyable. Hope I didn't bore you and you found some interest in the read.

Cheers

 


   
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_218bee
(@_218bee)
New York
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 64
Topic starter  

Great intel, guys.  Again many thanks.  I found a guy on Ebay (from Canada) that sells FWB factory replacement springs for the 124/127's brand new for around $30-35 US.  Might go this route and keep the gun stock.  He said its a full-power spring.  I just looked and it doesnt mention Beeman at all on the gun.  Serial # is  in the very low 4,000's.  Any significance to not being marked Beeman?  Good or bad? What mfg. date would you put on this gun?

 

FWB 124 | Bushnell 4 Power Scopechief
FWB 124 Breech

 

Here's a pretty informal group, off a sandbag, at about 28 yards.  Crosman boxed CP lites...and a cheesy old Bushnell 4x scope.  I was concentrating only on trigger squeeze, really.  Gun is getting smoother and more predictable, it feels.  Will throw the new spring in and call it done.

FWB 124 | Grouping Target

   
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(@hooligan)
California
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 132
 

"Serial # is  in the very low 4,000's.  Any significance to not being marked Beeman?  Good or bad? What mfg. date would you put on this gun?"

Only significance would be personal preference, eyes of the beholder. All the same gun. Both Beeman and ARH offered custom stocks and tunes. I prefer collecting Beeman marked FWB's due to being able to follow the history and trivia side of things, more interesting as to collectables.

Your rifle could be a Beeman or ARH import as to a rifle from across the pond I don't know as I don't recall when Feinwerkbau released 124's to England/Europe. I seem to recall England received their 124' at a later date than the U.S. but I can't say with certainty. This may be one of those times I'm just dreaming. Anyway I listed some manufacturing dates for you, I believe there is a better list out there.

FWB Sport 120-series (Manufactured 1973-89)

8899   -1973 Factory verified
10012  -1977
17023  -12/78
18746  -1979
34378  -09/80
34476  -09/80
39127  -1981
40003  -05/81
44001  -09/81
49992  -10/82
51631  -1983
52589  -05/83
56026  -1984
59458  -1985

Please note: I do not know the accuracy of the above dates. As the first date listed for serial number 88xx > have read that number verified supposedly by manufacture as being both  1973 and 1976.

Cheers


   
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(@ekmeister)
Texas
Member of Trade
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Posts: 739
 
Posted by: 218bee

Great intel, guys.  Again many thanks.  I found a guy on Ebay (from Canada) that sells FWB factory replacement springs for the 124/127's brand new for around $30-35 US.  Might go this route and keep the gun stock.  

Just keep in mind that if the one he's selling is the original power factory spring that FWB has been using in the rifle for decades, that is the one I saw at least a dozen of in the 124's I tuned with Maccari/ARH springs and/or kits over the years, the power with that factory spring is going to be even lower than with a Maccari spring.  It's harder to install, too--its length makes it more unwieldy when it comes to getting it down inside of the rifle.  It also tends to 'buzz' or vibrate more, due to a looser fit on the built-in steel spring guide of the 124. 

If a boost in power is what you're after, and it seems it is, the factory spring almost certainly isn't going to get you there.  I've worked on a bunch of the 124's and I never once removed a factory spring that could provide the same upgraded results I  got out of the Maccari spring (or kit) I used as the replacement.

Footnote: IIRC FWB is still in business, which allows for the possibility that they have since replaced their original OEM spring with a different, upgraded part.  If so, it might now provide better results than did the old spring.  That said, if they're doing that, I haven't heard even the slightest whisper or rumor that they've done so as of the date of this post.  I may not be on top of every bit of breaking news in the world of air gun technical information, but I try to stay in touch with news pertaining to the models I work on, as much as possible.


   
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(@hooligan)
California
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 132
 

I completely agree with you Ed. With that said I received (today) my Twister spring from ARH. Jim has it advertised as fitting the Fwb Sports spring guide tightly. Should aid in a tune as to eliminating some twang. Interest in comparing to his other spring kits. 

Another spring I wish to trying in the near future is the Titan spring. Ed, have any experience using these springs?

218bee,

Look forward to your results using OEM spring.

Cheers


   
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_218bee
(@_218bee)
New York
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 64
Topic starter  

Ok, thanks guys...I already ordered the spring and its on its way to me, so I will throw it in there and see whats what.  Just wanted to gain another 100 fps or so, and I know the old stock spring in the gun is worn.  It has a slight bend in it, too which messes with my OCD.   Went with this factory spring because I wanted to keep the rifle as stock as possible for now, but thats just me.

Hoolie, I would like to know the performance you get from that Twister spring.  Also tell us about the install.     do report back..


   
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(@hooligan)
California
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 132
 

218bee,

Yes it can be confusing. At times I find myself scratching my head as to what is and what isn't but in time your own results will mirror others. In the early production Sports I usually able to kit them to shoot mid 700's to higher 700's but can't seem to break that 800 fps barrier however I am shooting heavier pellets. Reading posts from the past this was the rifle that first broke the 800 fps mark and considered a magnum rifle! Often it was said to break the 800fps and up to 830 fps using lighter pellets. The question is, could that be expected straight from the box or encouraged from having a tune? I don't know the answer to that except to know there is often much hipe in expectancy and advertisement. I do hear of those on this forum who claim to get 13+ fpe which would equate to a velocity in the neighborhood of 860 fps. That gets a big WOW from me as I have no idea how they are squeezing that kind of tune from these guns. Perhaps a Paul Watt's tune with compression chamber getting the Sunnen Hone treatment.

Good luck with the tune. If I were to guess, a home tune using OEM spring on an early production Sport, I would expect a velocity between 740-760 with 8 grain pellets. Just my hunch.

Cheers


   
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(@ekmeister)
Texas
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Posts: 739
 
Posted by: Hooligan

I completely agree with you Ed. With that said I received (today) my Twister spring from ARH. Jim has it advertised as fitting the Fwb Sports spring guide tightly. Should aid in a tune as to eliminating some twang. Interest in comparing to his other spring kits. 

Another spring I wish to trying in the near future is the Titan spring. Ed, have any experience using these springs?

Every spring ARH spring I tried in the 124 fit the guide well-enough that the ubiquitous factory twang disappeared.

I've used Titan springs in rifles of various makes and models, but never in an FWB 124.  Sorry but I can't help you there.


   
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