You are the master! This is all I have left that is un-mounted; just don't have enough guns I guess. The top one is an original El Gamo, which has been cloned and copied by just about everyone. Below is one of those clones, Crosman, I believe. There is a noticeable difference in adjustment lash. The Gamo is very precise. The Crosman needs a few clicks up, then a click down. The third one is a Daisy 5899, which only works on Daisy rifles. It has a removable aperture, but the threads are model-specific.
@jim_in_pgh I only have a couple of peeps... one of is also a Sterling Armament HR81, .22... I had a Beeman Sport Aperture 5823 that I came with my HW77k that I bought from an estate sale years ago... it has the Merit Disc 5960 on it... I decided to put it on my Sterling (had to remove pieces of the rear sight)... seemed like a good rifle to put it on... don't really shoot it much.
@jim_in_pgh I only have a couple of peeps... one is also on a Sterling Armament HR81, .22... I had a Beeman Sport Aperture 5823 that I came with my HW77k that I bought from an estate sale years ago... it has the Merit Disc 5960 on it... I decided to put it on my Sterling (had to remove pieces of the rear sight)... seemed like a good rifle to put it on... don't really shoot it much.
The BSF S.54 Match's OEM diopter looks famously cool; and is fragile, unfriendly to other eyepieces, and adjusts quite coarsely. BUT long story short - it's hard to find anything else that adjusts low enough to work. Here is the winning combo: base from a new Williams FP-GR; moving bits from an ancient ARH 833T, a BSF-specific Williams model from ol' Robert Law. (833T by itself won't go low enough; the FP-GR's elevation arm is taller and hits the wood).
Rather to my surprise, the orphaned half of each sight worked perfectly on a 1980-vintage HW 35! Bottom from the 833T, top from the FP-GR.
This HW 55 CM gets the prize, though. It's a Redfield Olympic sight, mounted to a special Anschutz adapter for 11mm rails, and Merit adjustable iris.
BUT...it wouldn't adjust quite low enough. Enter an Anschutz tunnel front, on a Walther 10mm riser, on your Weihrauch barrel. Result: weird-looking rifle with an extremely comfy head's-up sight line.
Not quite weird enough yet? No problem! The Redfield and Merit iris, for unknown reasons, were modified to a larger thread size. The other gadget in this shot is a blank pistol muzzle brake with the same thread...
I understand “making it work,” The 55 solution is amazing. I also understand the swapping in and out of various risers until you find one that works, The Ural on the Tau 200 required a 10mm Anschutz riser. The Czech sight on the IZH required a BKL riser. The Williams on the Plinkster is mounted on the front dovetail, because on the rear, it interfered with the bolt. I put a 5/32 aperture in it, and the sight picture is exactly the same as a small aperture close to the eye.
All of my peep-sighted guns (except the Plinkster) have clear aperture front sights. Some have taken a bit of effort to get there.
I like scopes for distance, but for short range, give me a target peep and a clear-disk front sight.
Thanks Jim! BTW your collection of sights, combined with your tinkering skills (!), is pretty amazing - several that are new to me!
Do you have a source for Anschutz risers that will fit the old 8mm-ish front rail spacing? I'd love to have a box full of those. I was amazed the Walther one worked on my HW 55 lash-up, an Anschutz would be better.
@mdriskill I haven't been able to find 8mm dovetail risers. What I've done a few times is buy an 11mm dovetail from Midway and JBweld it onto the barrel. It doesn't always work, but a dovetail file with two blind sides usually does the trick. File the rail, NOT the sight. That way you can keep on swapping.
I must've been asleep at the switch whenever front sight rails all went from 8 to 11mm, LOL. Makes it challenging to fiddle with older airguns, for sure.
+ A friend recently acquired a Gehmann-like iris, with magnifying lens, whose thread is 8mm in outside diameter - bigger than US sights, smaller than German ones. I'm clueless, maybe Sauer-Busk, TOZ, Ural, or some other Eastern Euro oddity?
+ Any idea what the thread on my modified Redfield and Merit iris (and muzzle brake!) might be? My mighty 2-buck plastic caliper has the outside diameter just a hair under 7mm or 9/32". I'd eyeball the thread pitch in the neighborhood of 30 per inch. (Edit: there actually is a 9/32 - 32 thread size, is that a thing for sights?)
The Williams on the Plinkster is mounted on the front dovetail, because on the rear, it interfered with the bolt. I put a 5/32 aperture in it, and the sight picture is exactly the same as a small aperture close to the eye.
All of my peep-sighted guns (except the Plinkster) have clear aperture front sights.
This is a new idea to me. Can you explain a bit? On the front sight you use something like a globe with no insert? And on the rear the sight can be mounted where it won't interfere with loading as long as the aperture is bigger?
+ A friend recently acquired a Gehmann-like iris, with magnifying lens, whose thread is 8mm in outside diameter - bigger than US sights, smaller than German ones. I'm clueless, maybe Sauer-Busk, TOZ, Ural, or some other Eastern Euro oddity?
+ Any idea what the thread on my modified Redfield and Merit iris (and muzzle brake!) might be? My mighty 2-buck plastic caliper has the outside diameter just a hair under 7mm or 9/32". I'd eyeball the thread pitch in the neighborhood of 30 per inch. (Edit: there actually is a 9/32 - 32 thread size, is that a thing for sights?)
Mike
Williams and Merritt use a #12 (0.217" OD) X 40 TPI UNUF thread
The Williams on the Plinkster is mounted on the front dovetail, because on the rear, it interfered with the bolt. I put a 5/32 aperture in it, and the sight picture is exactly the same as a small aperture close to the eye.
All of my peep-sighted guns (except the Plinkster) have clear aperture front sights.
This is a new idea to me. Can you explain a bit? On the front sight you use something like a globe with no insert? And on the rear the sight can be mounted where it won't interfere with loading as long as the aperture is bigger?
That might be the answer for some multipumps.
Thanks
Tim;
I THINK the "Plinkster", is similar to the DIANA Stormrider/Trailscout and has a barrel "band" just in front of the receiver:
The barrel band has a dovetail on top for the open sights. But you can tap them out and replace with Williams or Beeman's apertures.
The larger ring, at the rear, will look the same as the smaller ring at the extreme back.
You are STILL loosing sight radius, but it may render the gun more usable for some.
I would say the the best use of this idea would be in the Dragonfly (the MSP version), as it frees the "scope area" for hand holding the gun while pumping.
Williams and Merritt use a #12 (0.217" OD) X 40 TPI UNUF thread
M8 can have 1.25, 1.0 and 0.8 mm pitches
HTH, keep well and shoot straight!
Thanks Hector!
You are probably the guy to answer something I've been trying to figger out for years:
+ On paper, Lyman (L), Parker-Hale (PH), Redfield (R), and Williams (W) all use the same eyepiece thread: 7/32-40 (is this the same as #12-40?). BUT
I have found:
+ R and W interchange, but not with L or PH.
+ L and PH interchange, but not with R or W.
+ The Merit iris fits all four makes of sights.
+ The US/German adapter that I have also fits all four.
HOW THE HECK is this possible? 😳 I REALLY wish I could use my PH eyepieces and irises in my Williams sights!
I'm also mystified why the original owner of my Redfield Olympic altered it and the Merit iris to a larger eyepiece thread. You end up looking through the same hole, so what was the point, LOL?
You are probably the guy to answer something I've been trying to figger out for years:
+ On paper, Lyman (L), Parker-Hale (PH), Redfield (R), and Williams (W) all use the same eyepiece thread: 7/32-40 (is this the same as #12-40?). BUT
I have found:
+ R and W interchange, but not with L or PH.
+ L and PH interchange, but not with R or W.
+ The Merit iris fits all four makes of sights.
+ The US/German adapter that I have also fits all four.
HOW THE HECK is this possible? 😳 I REALLY wish I could use my PH eyepieces and irises in my Williams sights!
I'm also mystified why the original owner of my Redfield Olympic altered it and the Merit iris to a larger eyepiece thread. You end up looking through the same hole, so what was the point, LOL?
Mike, I do not think #12 (which I specced at 0.217") is the same as 7/32" (0.2188"), that 0.001" and a difference in angle (55 degrees vs. 60 degrees) can create the confusion you are mentioning.
From my days in Manchester (England) I do recall the gunsmiths saying that the PH threads were all Whitworth (Sir J W was sort of a demi-god in Manchester). So that would make the male PH threads able to go into female SAE threads, but not true for the converse.
On the other side, the 0.001" of difference between the #12 and the 7/32" would create a similar situation for tight toleranced threads. Tolerancing of threads is convoluted, but relatively simple if you look at this diagram:
A 7/32" screw with a relatively high tolerance COULD enter into a #12 nut.
SOME manufacturers DO want to PREVENT the user from mixing and matching. Some others do not care too much or are trying to make their products as useful as possible.
AaMoF a 6h screw of 7/32" would go into a 6H nut of #12. But not the converse.
In gunsmithing jobs that are using aluminum, I like using # 4 tolerances for both: taps and dies, and then work the screw or nut (usually steel) in and out several times with some lube so that that they mate to each other. This guarantees best fit. It should also be mentioned that cheap screws are usually made to larger tolerances and that the real difference between screws made in China and screws made in the US is precisely the tolerances they are made to. Sometimes the steel itself in US screws is softer or more grainy, but the tolerances are better.
Last note is that long threads NEED a less critical tolerance, and that long items are better centered/aligned using a centering cone at the meeting ends than relying on the threads to align the axes of the parts.
On the 9/32" X 32 adapters, since the taps and dies exist and are easily available, it could be the threads were stripped by an overzealous user and a "bushing" on the insert with a newly tapped hole at the sight returned the item to full service. Just a guess because it is what I would have done if someone brought me a stripped rear sight that cannot hold the rear iris/diopter.
The Williams on the Plinkster is mounted on the front dovetail, because on the rear, it interfered with the bolt. I put a 5/32 aperture in it, and the sight picture is exactly the same as a small aperture close to the eye.
All of my peep-sighted guns (except the Plinkster) have clear aperture front sights.
This is a new idea to me. Can you explain a bit? On the front sight you use something like a globe with no insert? And on the rear the sight can be mounted where it won't interfere with loading as long as the aperture is bigger?
That might be the answer for some multipumps.
Thanks
Tim;
I THINK the "Plinkster", is similar to the DIANA Stormrider/Trailscout and has a barrel "band" just in front of the receiver:
-- attachment is not available --
The barrel band has a dovetail on top for the open sights. But you can tap them out and replace with Williams or Beeman's apertures.
The larger ring, at the rear, will look the same as the smaller ring at the extreme back.
You are STILL loosing sight radius, but it may render the gun more usable for some.
I would say the the best use of this idea would be in the Dragonfly (the MSP version), as it frees the "scope area" for hand holding the gun while pumping.
Just an idea.
Keep well and shoot straight!
HM
Correct, the sight radius is reduced, but the functionality is greatly increased. I'm still using the factory front post, as I have yet to figure out how to mount a front aperture on this gun. Peep and post is not as nice as peep and aperture, but it works well for this gun and what I use it for, (not target work, mostly chasing cans.)
You are correct that the Plinkster was the early version of the SPA CO2 platform, which is nearly identical architecture to the Stormrider and Trailscout. The Plinkster holds 3 CO2 carts at once, but only uses one at a time, via a face seal on the valve. Handy little gun, and using the magazines, it's just right for bouncing cans around the yard. And it has one of the most efficient moderators I've ever heard on a CO2 gun. Sounds about like a staple gun. I believe the original Plinkster is still available from Krale as an Artemis CR600W, with very reasonable pricing.
I currently have a 2MOA red dot on my Dragonfly, on the front dovetail. But I like the idea of trying a peep on that gun as well.
I'm impressed with the places this thread has gone. LOTS of good stuff. This forum ain't dead yet.
