Do to a number of factors beyond my control, I have been away from this forum. I recently purchased a Benjamin Fortitude, my first pcp, and I'm confused. The rifle loses about 200 psi every day, yet Crosman seems to think that is acceptable. Is that possible? Also, the shroud and the barrel can easily be wiggled back and forth as a unit. As an old springer guy I can't understand how leaks and a loose barrel are a recipe for accuracy. At 71 years young, I'm still willing to learn, so educate me please. Thanks much, TomJ.
that rifle would have had a return tag on it, if it were mine
neither are acceptable
Totally unacceptable - even by Crosman standards. It should be sent back for repair, replacement or refund. If you receive a refund, you might want to consider using it toward the purchase of a used, walnut and steel pcp - which would be comparable to the quality of the springers in your past.
That the Darkside for ya. Use the force Luke the force of the Spinger
I shot my Benjamin Fortitude, also know as "The Leaker", this morning. Just for giggles, I shot the 1st pellet thru the chronograph. A CP Premier 7.9 grain @738 fps. The next few pellets thru the chrony averaged 815fps. So, could this discrepancy in fps from the very first pellet to the rest of the pellets be caused by an internal leak and the fact that the gun had been sitting idle for about 24 hrs? TIA, TomJ
A slow first shot is usually a symptom of regulator creep. Don't be too concerned about it until you have at least a 500ct tin through it. Cycling the regulator a bunch of times helps iron out surface imperfections of a new valve seat.
To help you picture what's going on, as the regulator is recharging the plenum, its piston moves ever closer to the valve seat to ultimately halt the flow of air once the desired pressure is reached. When the seat is new, it will often have machining marks or other imperfections that allow a slow trickle of air to continue moving through, thus the pressure may slowly rise over a period of minutes or hours, until such time as the pressure has climbed so high that it squishes the seat completely closed. The seat is usually some kind of plastic like acetal / Delrin, and cycling it open and close a bunch of times will typically iron out those imperfections. In extreme cases, it may be necessary to dress the surface with fine wet/dry sandpaper to make it behave.
In the meantime, the extent to which creep will affect the velocity has a lot to do with the state of tune. I don't recall if the Fortitude has an accessible fine adjustment for the hammer spring tension but if it does, what you want to do is dial it up until you find the maximum velocity. Then dial it back so the velocity is about 95 - 97% of that maximum. When adjusted in this manner, it will be more agnostic to minor pressure variations.
@nervoustrigger Great explanation. I can adjust the hammer spring tension, so I'll try that out. Thanks, TomJ
A disturbing update on my journey to the dark side. "The Leaker" was returned for replacement. The replacement earned the name " The Huge Leaker", over 1000 psi overnight. So, that was immediately returned and I requested a refund. The dealer received the defective product over 3 months ago and I still have not received my refund. My nightmare trip to the dark side continues. TomJ
Hmmmmm. And everybody says spring piston rifles are too much of a headache. I hope your journey is ultimately successful. I'll stick with my own well travelled journey.
Bill,
I get your point. I went to PCP but instead of never looking back I am definitely looking back. Spring guns shoot well and are not hard to work on. PCP guns have not been a nightmare but they are a real pain with the leaking, fittings, tanks, pumps, hoses, compressors and on and on. I think the airgun makers never met a different fitting that they didn't like or they are having a contest to see who can come up with yet another fitting or o ring. The only saving grace with PCPs is that they are nice to shoot, if you have air and if they are working okay and no leaking or out of air or whatever.
Rich,
They must have their appeal to an awful lot of people. I don't get it myself. But they have certainly come to dominate the airgun world. I do hope you iron everything out and find happiness with a PCP. I will be watching to see what you ultimately wind up with.
We forget how frustrating that can be...but we've all had new ones (PCP or springer) that we've had to send back for one reason or another. You've evidently on #2 and it also needs to go back. Superstitious or not, may be a sign....and that sign says,"No".
? I'm not on number 2, sent that back for a refund, which I haven't received for 3 months now. But that's another story yet to be told. I am currently comparing #3 and #4, a Gamo Urban .22 to an Air Venturi Avenger in .177. Oh, and I also bought a GX Portable Compressor. If I continue to shoot airguns, my plan is to end up with one set up for what time I have left to play. TomJ
We forget how frustrating that can be...but we've all had new ones (PCP or springer) that we've had to send back for one reason or another. You've evidently on #2 and it also needs to go back. Superstitious or not, may be a sign....and that sign says,"No".
Insanely lucky? Got guns made on a Wednesday when everyone was focused? Honestly not a clue but of the 40+ rifles I've owned, only ever sent one back and that was a gas rammed Umarex. The 3 PCP's, 2 of which I still have (sold my Hatsan Flash .22) I still have and never an issue with either of them. May likely be just because the Hatsan Galatian III .25 and Hatsan Flashpup .25 are for pest elimination and other than sight in, never get used for target shooting and been problem free and I've had the Galatian for 4 years now. Can't say I'll never buy another but with I have a thing for .20 caliber (yeah, I'm that oddball..lol) and usually looking more for older Beeman stuff in the caliber than I do at PCP's.
The rest are springers and the ones that have had issues were caused by my tinkering although tinkering can be a frustration all on its own...lol.
oldbasser, good luck on your quest and hopefully everything works out for you 🙂
Well, here's an update on my journey. Fortitude #2 was returned for a refund, which took over 3 months to happen, but that's another story. While I was waiting, I got an Avenger in .177 and a Gamo Urban .22. I also picked up a small compressor since my 72 year old, wore out body said not no but heck no to pumping. My comparison results were that both rifles are superbly accurate and easy to shoot. Avenger trigger was a minus, shot count a plus, adjustability a plus, as to how it fit my shooting style, OK. The Urban trigger was a plus, shot count a minus, adjustability not as good, and how it fit my shooting style, good. The winner is the Gamo Urban. It just fits me better and the trigger is really decent set at 1.5 lbs. So, am I at the end of my journey? Who knows?
Well, i'm 78 and have been off hand pumping for 6 years. But my 2008 tried and true Discovery .22 now leaks out in 12 hours and my 850 HPA .177 has a leak as well.
I'm going to fix them and get a compressor plus order a DAR .22 and a Avenger that hopefully will be upgraded....
My scuba tanks can sit in the corner someplace.
your explanation of regulator creep is simply excellent!
This is the first time I understand it! THANKS!
Matthias
I thought y'all might like a short review on the compressor I bought to fill my Avenger and Urban. I posted earlier about comparing those two rifles and choosing the Urban as the winner for my uses. The compressor I purchased was this one.
GX CS2 Portable PCP Air Compressor
I purchased it on Amazon, it arrived quickly, was very well packed, and was quite simple to get up and running.
So far, I am pleased. I'm into my deer season, so I am not shooting the Urban very often, but the compressor has been the berries for topping it off. I have it set up in my "man cave" on a little table and it is quick, quiet, and has nearly no vibration in use. No cons yet, so fingers are crossed.
Rich,
They must have their appeal to an awful lot of people. I don't get it myself. But they have certainly come to dominate the airgun world. I do hope you iron everything out and find happiness with a PCP. I will be watching to see what you ultimately wind up with.
You're not trying hard enough .. lol. There is no comparison. That being said, a couple of springers do hold a very dear and nostalgic place in my gun cabinet.
Rich,
They must have their appeal to an awful lot of people. I don't get it myself. But they have certainly come to dominate the airgun world. I do hope you iron everything out and find happiness with a PCP. I will be watching to see what you ultimately wind up with.
You're not trying hard enough .. lol. There is no comparison. That being said, a couple of springers do hold a very dear and nostalgic place in my gun cabinet.
You're right. There is no comparison. LOL. Never had, never tried a PCP. I've watched all the springer/PCP wars. Both sides have their points. I'm just happy with my small, modestly powered inventory of springers. They all shoot well and do what I want with no problems.
