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My HW30K-5.5fpe HW50K-9.6fpe HW80K-16.3fpe with OEM-Silencers ... Teutonic Springer Trifecta


Alejandro O. Martinez
(@aom22)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 191
Topic starter  

When I first laid-eyes on an HW30S Urban Pro ... I was intrigued.
But, I was hesitant ... something didn't make sense.
To make an already very-quiet air rifle even-more-quiet.

Why not make a more-powerful air rifle quieter - that would make mores sense.
Well, here comes the more-powerful HW50K and even-more-powerful HW80K outfitted with factory moderators.
Airguns of Arizona denotes their moderated Weihrauch springs as HW30S, HW50S and HW80 Long Range respectively.
While the factory markings on the barrels indicate HW30K, HW50K and HW80K.

After seeing all-three of these rifles at the Airguns of Arizona website ... I couldn't resist.
Moreover I'm thinking, when will such a selection of silenced air guns ever be available - again.
So, I bought all three.
With each-one outfitted with a Weihrauch factory scope mounted on a Diana Zero-Recoil base.

image

Top:  HW30K
Middle:  HW50K
Bottom:  HW80K

Airguns of Arizona mounted the scopes on the rifle and sighted-in the combos.
Ya ... I know.
Someone else mounting a scope for-ya isn't the ideal thing to-do.
The eye relief ain't gonna be right.

Well, for the last couple of days, I've been breaking-in and zeroing all three rifles.
Just as they came from Airguns of Arizona.
And so-far ... I haven't encountered the need to change anything about the scope placement.

I'm telling ya ... I couldn't be happier with my decision to-make this outlay of cash.
Each-one of these HWs fits its own niche for me.
Each-one complimenting the other's capability and purpose.


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sonnysan
(@sonnysan)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 425
 

So what is the decibel level at the muzzle for each moderated gun?  You can find out inexpensively with this unit:

https://smile.amazon.com/BAFX-Products-Pressure-30-130dBA-Warranty/dp/B00ECCZWWI/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=decibel+meter&qid=1618538974&sr=8-3

 


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Alejandro O. Martinez
(@aom22)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 191
Topic starter  
Posted by: @aom22

Yep, I’ve been thinking about-this for quite-a-while ever-since I-first-spied an HW30 Urban Pro.

Weihrauch HW30S .177 Urban Pro Air Rifle Video Review

Couldn’t get this little-rifle out-of-my-head.

Moreover,  I saw an HW80K with a factory moderator.
The HW80 got my attention.
So did the HW50S Hunter.

Weihrauch HW80 Long Range Hunter

 

 

The video links provided give some idea of the sound of these moderated springers.
The HW30S link does give a decibel reading.
While the HW80 video provides a the sound emitted by the “80K.”
I couldn’t find anything on the HW50S.


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Jim in SWMO
(@jim-in-swmo)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 451
 

Nice trio of HWs. Congrats! I think you will most definitely enjoy the HW30S and 50S. I know I sure enjoy mine, as well as my recently acquired R7. Don't have an HW80 so can't comment on that one. The R7 is still new enough to me that I haven't done any serious accuracy testing yet. But the 30S & 50S have both shown very good accuracy at the measly 9.5yds I have in the basement. It's not uncommon to be able to put 5 shots inside of a quarter inch circle with either one when I'm on my game (that's rested of course). My 30S is factory stock other than installing a piece of JM's cocking lever insert. But the 50S has one of his older full power kits in it and is running at around 10.25fpe, which makes it like shooting a slightly bigger HW30. 😎

May I suggest you do yourself and the 30S and 50S a favor? HW uses a two piece articulated cocking lever in these models and they fasten the two pieces together with a rivet. Unfortunately, that rivet is often set far too tight which makes the lever try to act as one piece instead of two and this can be a major source of the galling (the cocking lever rubbing on the receiver tube) so often mentioned with these two models. But, there's a quick and easy remedy that can greatly reduce the chances of any galling. Simply take the action out of the stock and support the side of the cocking lever on a thin piece of wood at the rivet that joins the two pieces. Then use a small punch (I used a well used 1/8" center punch on my R7) and give the rivet a couple of good taps on both sides. Then add a small drop of oil on each side of the "hinge". This will go a long way toward freeing up the movement of the two pieces. Besides helping to reduce the chance of galling, it also has the benefit of lightening the cocking effort because now the two pieces can move more freely. And with things moving more freely it will also allow you to better adjust the barrel pivot tension. 😉 

Congrats again! And enjoy those new HWs. 🙂


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Alejandro O. Martinez
(@aom22)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 191
Topic starter  
Posted by: @aom22

After firing my new moderated German springers ... I'm a believer. 
I cede the reduction in sound-signature is nowhere-near as pronounced as-on PCP/MSP guns.
And, the mechanical sounds produced by the spring & piston still account for the majority of noise generated by a springer

Still, there appears to-be .... in-my-opinion ... some perceivable improvement.
Enough-so, for me to consider the additional expense of a moderator to be cost-effective.
But, it will take some sound-pressure instrumentation to prove the point.
Electronic equipment I don't own - for now.

However in the link below, is a video of a fella that did take-the-time to measure the difference indoors.

Airgun silencer (moderator) test with Weihrauch HW97

 


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RockDoc65
(@rockdoc65)
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Posts: 114
 
Posted by: @aom22

Airguns of Arizona denotes their moderated Weihrauch springs as HW30S, HW50S and HW80 Long Range respectively.
While the factory markings on the barrels indicate HW30K, HW50K and HW80K.

The K might stand for Kompensator, which is of course the German spelling, while Airguns of Arizona might use the S to denote "Silencer*."  The "Long Range" moniker is probably marketing-speak meaning "It has no sights because you're going to put a scope on it anyways."

 

*Hiram Maxim's name for his own device.


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Jim in SWMO
(@jim-in-swmo)
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@rockdoc65

Because both the HW30 and HW50 are also available with the Perfekt trigger, the "S" generally refers to those guns which have the Rekord trigger.

The "K" stands for carbine which in German is "karabiner" and often refers to a shorter barrel.

On the "Long Range Hunter" name, totally agree with you that it's most likely just a marketing thing.


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RockDoc65
(@rockdoc65)
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Posts: 114
 

@jim-in-swmo  Well is seems my knowledge of HW nomenclature is rustier than my German. At least I knew they weren't referring to a Supercharger (Kompressor).


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Jim in SWMO
(@jim-in-swmo)
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@rockdoc65

Hey, if one of them had been a PCP you never know, that "Supercharger" might have fit! LOL


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Alejandro O. Martinez
(@aom22)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 191
Topic starter  

Anyone know the significance between a gold-coated trigger and silvered trigger.
I was under the impression, the gold-triggers were the"Rekord" versions
Because, my rifles come with both.
The 30K is gold ... the other two are silver.
Moreover, the 30K has the lightest trigger-pull of the trio.
.


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Jim in SWMO
(@jim-in-swmo)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 451
 

The Rekord trigger is available in both silver or gold color. At one time, I "think" the only guns that had the gold triggers were the Beeman R7, R9 and R1 known as the "Goldfinger" models. But that name has been dropped for some time now and my R7 (purchased this year) and R9 (purchased 3 years ago) both have the gold trigger, but my other HWs have the silver trigger. (BTW, all of mine have the Rekord trigger.) I've also seen pics of HW branded guns with gold triggers but they seem to mainly be on the "Deluxe/Luxus" models. Given that your HW30S has the Deluxe style stock it may well have started out as a Deluxe model and that could be why it has the gold trigger but the others don't.


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(@jiminpgh)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 563
 

FWIW, the Perfekt trigger, while not a Rekord, ain't half bad. I had one in an HW30 a few years ago. It does lack adjustments, but it is still a remarkable multi-lever true two-stage trigger, and it ain't no slouch.

e1438a0d1e68da6504ff8082c9c769b4

 


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Alejandro O. Martinez
(@aom22)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 191
Topic starter  

I stand corrected ... ALL of my HWs have silvered-triggers.
(Looks-like I just found-an-excuse to buy a deluxe HW30 ... to acquire a gold-trigger.   LOL)
And, my HW30K has the lightest trigger-pull of-all.
My HW80K has the heaviest trigger-pull even at the lightest-possible adjustment.
The HW50K has a slightly-heavier trigger than the HW30K.
But, nowhere-near as heavy as the HW80K.

Just as I want let-off to occur, the HW80K trigger demands even-more pressure to trip the sear.
It is just enough to be annoying or worse ... just enough extra -effort to make-me go-off POA.
I think, this additional effort at a critical point-of-aim, prevents-me from extracting the best-accuracy from the HW80K.

Judging from JiminPGH’s illustration, I’m gonna need to separate-the-action in-order to access the second adjustment screw. 


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DavidEnoch
(@davidenoch)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 460
 

A couple days ago I was out shooting my R-7.  After shooting PCPs with moderators it seemed loud.  I went into the shop and grabbed some foam ear plugs.

In the past I had never used ear plugs when shooting my springers but now if I am shooting one, or my brother is over and shooting a springer on the bench next to me I use ear plugs.  I don't know if the noise of a springer is damaging to my ears but it feels better to my ears with the ear plugs.

My dad was so deaf when he died that it was hard to carry on a conversation with him.  That was with a hearing aid and a cochlear implant.  I am trying to do what I can to save what hearing I have.

I don't think the moderators on springers make the guns sound more quiet to the shooter, but down range you can definitely tell the difference between a moderated and non-moderated springer noise.

David Enoch


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(@tomcin)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 41
 

If you need less noise than a Hw 30 rifle you must get a Hw 25L comes with Nice Perfekt Trigger! Great Target Rifle and may be the quietest Springer around ! Easy to cock and very Accurate! Mine is Customized and a Real Keeper ! 

image

 


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Alejandro O. Martinez
(@aom22)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 191
Topic starter  
Posted by: @tomcin

If you need less noise than a Hw 30 rifle you must get a Hw 25L comes with Nice Perfekt Trigger!  

When I returned to airgun shooting over a decade ago.
I was prompted towards adult-airguns by the pragmatic-need to defend my bird feeders from pest birds.
The primary culprits were non-indigenous and invasive house-sparrows (aka: English sparrows) and Eurasian collared-dove

At the time, I purchased a couple-of Daisy 880s that worked well-enough for the task-at-hand.
But, the "deal-breaker" was the 880s very-heavy, extremely-annoying, trigger-pull.
At the time, there wasn't a simple or easy work-around for this problem that I could accomplish.
As such, I longed for something better ... a much better MSP or springer.

But, I was on a limited budget ... meaning:  I couldn't afford what I really wanted.
Typical story ... champagne taste (Air Arms TX200) on a beer budget (Diana/RWS 240) - LOL.

One-of of initial considerations was the very low-powered Weihrauch HW25L ... the version being sold-buy Airguns of Arizona.
But, I just wasn't sure about the "Perfecft"-trigger.
At the time, I wasn't knowledgeable-enough about adult-quality airguns or familiar-with the cottage-industry of airgun tuners.
Moreover, the additional expense was also a concern ... no-sense in spending extra-money on an inexpensive air rifle.

For these reasons I shied-away from buying an HW25L.
In hindsight, that was a mistake as the 25L is no-longer being imported.
And, probably, would have been the "Perfecft" little-backyard air rifle for eliminating sparrows at the birdfeeders.


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Jim in SWMO
(@jim-in-swmo)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 451
 
Posted by: @aom22

I’m gonna need to separate-the-action in-order to access the second adjustment screw. 

If you're referring to adjusting the screw for the sear overlap (the "forbidden screw", lol) then you'll need a "T8" Torx bit to do it. Good luck and be careful. Don't want to go too far in the adjustment and end up with an unsafe trigger! 😉 

BTW, regarding the HW25. It's not only not being imported anymore, it's no longer listed on HW's website. Looks like they have apparently dropped it from their lineup.

Oh, and if you still have it, hold onto your Diana 240. It seems they are no longer being made in Germany. Apparently production of the 240 (now labeled as the "two-forty") has been moved to China. 🙄 


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Alejandro O. Martinez
(@aom22)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 191
Topic starter  
Posted by: @jim-in-swmo

Oh, and if you still have it, hold onto your Diana 240.
It seems they are no longer being made in Germany.
Apparently production of the 240 (now labeled as the "two-forty") has been moved to China. 🙄 

@jim-in-swmo ... ya just had me in a complete-state-of-panic.
Last Christmas, I purchased a Diana 240 along-with a couple of Diana 430Ls that were on-sale.

image

Upon reading what you posted ... I stopped everything I was doing.
Just-to double-check for the "Made in Germany" inscription on my 240.
Yep, it was there - thank goodness.  👍 LOL 👍 

By-the-way, it is Diana's SPORT-line that-is their "offshore" models.
Their PERFORMANCE-series are still "Made-in-Germany."

Funny thing about this particular 240.
It was purchased from Airguns of Arizona.
However to my surprise, the OEM-box label indicated via Air Venturi.
I was thinking, "isn't Air Venturi more associated-with Pyramyd Air?!?!?!"


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Jim in SWMO
(@jim-in-swmo)
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@aom22

Lol...Didn't mean to give you a minor stroke with that info. But glad you got one of the actual German made 240s. Not sure when they moved production to China, but if you look at the upper corner of the listing for the "two-forty" in their 2021 catalog (have to scroll about 2/3rds of the way down to get to it) it says it's part of the Action line. And the Action line appears to be the guns made in China.

https://www.diana-airguns.de/fileadmin/Editoren/PDF-Downloads/Publkationen/DIANA_Katalog_2021_web.pdf

Lol, that's interesting about your 240's box. I'm not sure what Air Venturi's relationship is with Pyramyd Air but their offices are at the same address in Solon, OH as Pyramyd's. But, they are an importer/distributor for several major brands so could be that they were the ones that imported your 240 and then sold it on to AoA.

https://www.airventuri.com/av/brands-we-represent/

BTW, I see above that you were considering an HW30 Deluxe to get one with the gold trigger. Don't take what I said about the Deluxe/Luxus models having the gold trigger as gospel, I could well be wrong about that. Email them first and ask if they do indeed have the gold trigger. HW seems to be more open to custom orders (I believe that is why AoA has many variations of the same models, such as special stocks, finishes, etc.) than other manufacturers so some retailers may have special ordered some Deluxe/Luxus guns with the gold triggers while others have the standard silver trigger.


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Alejandro O. Martinez
(@aom22)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 191
Topic starter  
image

Weihrauch HW80K with Weihrauch Moderator aka: HW80S as denoted by Airguns of Arizona
Weihrauch Telescopic Sight 3-9X40-P, Adjustable Objective, Close-Focus 7.5 Meters
Diana Bullseye ZR (Zero Recoil) Mount

The following are a couple-of-groups I shot while zeroing-in my 80K.
I was attempting to establish the base accuracy of this rifle out-of-the-box.
This was before any adjustments were made to the trigger.
However, the stock-screws were checked for tightness - they were not snug.

What is noteworthy of the image below.
I was attempting to establish final-zero with the rifle fully-rested.
The one-o'clock POIs consists of two-shots.
I turned the turret knobs one-click-left and two-clicks-down.
The POI of the next-shot was exactly as intended ... dead-center of the paper reinforcement.
I was very pleased-with the apparent-tracking of the scope adjustments.

image

3-Shots at 20-Yards
2-Shots at 1-o'clock POI ... scope adjustment ... 1-shot POI center-of-target
9/16-inch Diameter Paper-Reinforcement  
JSB EXACT Diabolo, 8.44gr
Rifle fully-rested, Forstock-to-Toe, on two-pillows and a thick-blanket

The next image demonstrated the established-zero of the fully-rested rifle.
This is the impressive accuracy potential of my rifle.
I'll never be able to shoot this well.

The POI was a paper reinforcement that was dislodged by third-shot.
POA for the last-shot was the existing hole created by prior impacts.

image

4-Shots at 20-Yards
9/16-inch Diameter Paper-Reinforcement  
JSB EXACT Diabolo, 8.44gr
Rifle fully-rested, Forstock-to-Toe, on two-pillows and a thick blanket

I acknowledge this level-of-accuracy will never-be-able to-be extracted in-the-field.
And, kinda pointless to-set final-zero from a rested position.
As there-is no realistic way to fully-rest the rifle in-the-field as-in the-manner these shots were fired.

Moreover, let me say, I was hesitant to post these photos ... as they are seemingly incredible.
As-such as the group progressed, I was reluctant to fire anymore shots for-fear of ruining the resultant group. 
All I can say,  sometimes the stars ... just fall into alignment.


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Alejandro O. Martinez
(@aom22)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 191
Topic starter  

The real-world accuracy I'm capable-of with my HW80K.
After finishing the "fully rested" accuracy process, I set-about establishing "offhand zero."
To this end, I set-up a target with a series-of inverted-"V" POAs and proceeded to take-some-shots solely to-set windage.
Then, I did the same with another set-of inverted-"V" POAs to-set elevation.

Afterwards to verify "offhand zero," I began to take-aim at some individual paper-reinforcements.
Below are some of the paper-reinforcements I hit.
I say "I hit" because I know my HW80K is quite-capable of "taking-out" the center of the reinforcements.
Meaning, the best I could-do is strike near-or-on the periphery of the reinforcements. 

The reinforcements were adhered-to a plastic-film covering on a target backing.
As the reinforcements were struck, they became dislodged from the target backing.
Here are some-of the reinforcements I recovered in-the-process of setting "offhand zero."

By the way, the initial scope adjust transitioning from "fully rested" to "offhand" was 15-clicks down and 10-clicks right.
That is a large POI-shift when switching holds.
I'm gonna have-to systematically perform some tests to-gauge the POI-shift from-offhand to shooting-sticks.
That is gonna be telling - I think.

image

Single-Shots at 20-Yards
Standing Offhand
Back-of Offhand Knuckle Slightly Touching Tripod Shooting-Sticks Rest

POA Center-of-Reinforcement
9/16-inch Diameter Paper-Reinforcement  
JSB EXACT Diabolo, 8.44gr


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Alejandro O. Martinez
(@aom22)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 191
Topic starter  
Posted by: @jim-in-swmo
Posted by: @aom22

I’m gonna need to separate-the-action in-order to access the second adjustment screw. 

If you're referring to adjusting the screw for the sear overlap (the "forbidden screw", lol) then you'll need a "T8" Torx bit to do it.
Good luck and be careful.
Don't want to go too far in the adjustment and end up with an unsafe trigger! 😉 

Posted by: @jiminpgh
e1438a0d1e68da6504ff8082c9c769b4

 

After reviewing @jiminpgh's image and some Weihrauch videos regarding the "Rekord" trigger.
I demated the HW80K action from the its stock and proceeded to-make the necessary sear-engagement adjustment.
With the action out-of the stock and uncocked, I could-not see the sear contact point.
I didn't want to risk cocking-the-action and accidently releasing-the-piston while adjusting the "forbidden screw."

So, I selected the correct torx-screw tip from my tool-box and turned-the-screw clockwise 1/2-turn.
I thought this was more-than-enough ... turns-out it wasn't.
After remating/test firing/demating/turning-screw/remating/test-firing at least three-times.
I ended-up adjusting the screw one-complete-turn clockwise.
That's a lot I'm thinking, after taking jim-in-swmo's caution into consideration.

Anyway, I have the HW80's trigger-pull set just-about-right.
I haven't used my trigger-pull gauge to find-out what the actual-weight is - yet.
I'm just going by what-feels-right.
So-far ... so-good - no unintentional discharge has occurred.


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Jim in SWMO
(@jim-in-swmo)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 451
 

It looks like your 80K has a good barrel on it. 😎 

Always good when you get nice small groups like that. And when you see them you can actually feel that little grin starting to form on your face. 🙂


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Alejandro O. Martinez
(@aom22)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 191
Topic starter  
Posted by: @jim-in-swmo

It looks like your 80K has a good barrel on it. 😎 
Always good when you get nice small groups like that.

Well, out-of-the-box ... this was not quite-the-case.
This was the original target provided by Airguns of Arizona and chronograph reading.
I can only surmise it is a full-size image and shot from a rest.

When I first-saw the image, I was ... frankly ... just a little disappointed.
From my perspective ... not an impressive group - just OK.
I scanned the document and added an 9/16-inch diameter paper-reinforcement and the dime for scale.
Having attributed the group-size to the degree-of-difficulty in shooting a powerful springer accurately.

image

 

I attempted to replicate the retailer's-group using a very-good quality set-of tripod field sticks.
My results were adequate, but, certainly not an improvement.

Moreover, while attempting to reduce the trigger-pull via the external screw.
I discovered the trigger-guard was loose ... so, I checked all-of the action/stock mating screws.
They all were not-tight ... just nearly snug.
This was a key-finding and, in my mind, an errant-oversight by the airgun dealer.

After tightening all the action/stock mounting screws.
I placed the HW80K on an improvised full-rest consisting of two-pillows and a thick-blanket.
The air rifle was on a dead-rest completely-supported from forestock-to-toe.
It was then, I was able to-get a true-measure of this rifle's accuracy.

image

4-Shots at 20-Yards
9/16-inch Diameter Paper-Reinforcement  
JSB EXACT Diabolo, 8.44gr
Rifle fully-rested, Forstock-to-Toe, on two-pillows and a thick blanket


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Jim in SWMO
(@jim-in-swmo)
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Posts: 451
 

@aom22

Yep, loose screws will certainly do that. Which reminds me of a poem that Appel composed and posted on the old Yellow Forum and then another Yellow member's daughter put it to music. Guarantee, if you're a springer shooter this will put a smile on your face because you know it's true! LOL


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Alejandro O. Martinez
(@aom22)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 191
Topic starter  

When I first examined the test target.
I surprised to see a relatively-heavy for-bore 10.34gr pellet was being utilized.
I could somewhat rationalize the use-of a relatively-heavy pellet for accuracy testing.
But-for chronographing the 80K ... that's another matter all-together.

Accordingly, after reading one-of Hector J Medina entries in his Connecticut Custom Airguns blog.
I think I may-have some-understanding as-to “why” Airguns of Arizona would do-so.

The DIANA 430L

Scope was mounted and gun was tested (of all things with Baracuda 10.6 grs.pellets) at 20 yards.
Why that choice, I really don't know.
Odd choice anyway and not representative of the gun's performance potential.
The ONLY reason I can think of is to protect the gun by preventing the dieseling that COULD occur using lighter pellets.


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Steve in NC
(@steve-in-nc)
Dealer
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Posts: 428
 
Posted by: @jiminpgh

FWIW, the Perfekt trigger, while not a Rekord, ain't half bad. I had one in an HW30 a few years ago. It does lack adjustments, but it is still a remarkable multi-lever true two-stage trigger, and it ain't no slouch.

e1438a0d1e68da6504ff8082c9c769b4

 

Hi, Jim

Actually the Perfekt, while as you say a pretty good trigger because of its multi-lever design that keeps pull weight nicely light, is not a true 2-stager, but is instead only a simulated 2-stage in which the "1st stage" only compresses a spring instead of (as in the true 2-stage Rekord), doing useful work in moving the sear towards break.

The give-away is the return spring in the blade, which no true 2-stage trigger needs and the Rekord therefore lacks.  Circled below.

image

KR,

Steve


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