NB: WalMart: No ReFund/Return Policy Concerning Crosman Airguns | Crosman: No Refund for WalMart Purchased Airguns!
I was in WalMart the other day, on a cat food mission - at least that was my pretense for going. Anyway, ya'll know "the rest of the story" ... strategically divert to the sporting goods section to view the airguns, pellets, targets, etc. That's when, I spied a Crosman F4 outfitted with a moderator.
As things would have-it, I'd just been thinking about quieting my Gauntlet. Since I acquired the Gauntlet, I've had the nagging perception the rifle was-not inconspicuous-enough for-my-liking in the backyard. Ya see, the Gauntlet is my outside air rifle - sitting outdoors on our patio - always at the ready. As such, the Gauntlet lives an unpampered existence quite unlike my German airguns.
I was thinking, why not an inexpensive synthetic-stocked springer for constant standby-duty out-of-doors? Well, here comes the F4 QuietFire at WalMart - what a timely coincidence. LOL And at a cost of-only $83.00 for the rifle!!! Moreover in the corner-of-my-eye, was a CenterPoint 3-12x44 scope with ballistic MOA reticle on-an-adjacent-shelf. Who ... in their right-air-gun-mind ... could resist such temptations?!?!? After paying for the rifle at the Sporting Goods department. I couldn't wait to-get-home to send a pellet down-range just-to-hear the report. That was the entire point of this purchase, to gage the quietness of a moderated gas-ram.
Crosman F4 QuietFire (WalMart Version) with CenterPoint 4-12x44 on Diana Zero-Recoil Mount
Standing Position with Offhand Lightly Braced Crosman Premier Hollowpoint, 7.9g 5-Shots at 20-Yards Orange-Dot 3/4-Inch Diameter Upper POI @ 1-O'Clock Sighter from Prior Group
Well to my startled-self, the first-shot sounded-like a .22lr going-off ... dieseling!!! I damn-near dropped the rifle at-the-sound of the discharge. Boy, was I feeling stupid!!! Anyway, the rest of-the-shots were a-lot-more quiet ... needless-to-say. But, not as quiet as I had expected.
Worse, accuracy was degrading. To the point, only 2-or-3 pellets POIs out-of a 10-shot string were forming any semblance of-a-group. The remaining POIs were inches-away from my POA. I suspect after a full-tin of 500 pellets, the near-constant-flexing of the synthetic shroud had caused the assembly to permanently deflect - somewhat. And as a result, had begun to randomingly clip pellets.
Anyway fast-forward, my F4 is on-the-way-back to Crosman. But, here is more to this story ... after I finish some domestic chores.
But I'm not RETURNING, I'm EXCHANGING. I don't want my money back, I just want one that works!
It's worked every time, so far.
Well ... after doing a little research, I found-out Crosman has three-tiers of moderated gas-ram air rifles. This is silver, gold and platinum ... each succeeding level being more quiet than the prior. The F4 was not in any of the designated sleathliness classes. For me, returning the F4 would free-up more funds for a less noisy air rifle. Such-as the currently available Benjamin Vaporizer SBD (Gold) or Nitro Piston Elite Ironhide Black (Gold).
So, off to the WalMart-Return-Counter I went. Where I was informed by a very stern service-lady that the store has-had a NO-RETURN ... NO-REFUND policy towards Crosman air rifles. Problem was ... the policy was not posted in the air gun section.
Moreover, the unflinching attendant stated had-I-bothered to inspect my receipt ... a statement to-said-effect was inscribed thereon. Looking at my receipt ... there was nothing to support that assertion. Adding-to-this, Crosman has a NO-REFUND policy applying specifically to WalMart purchased air rifles.
So, here I am ... in a "Catch-22" situation. There was no-way I was gonna-be able to get my money back ... neither from WalMart nor Crosman. And, Crosman has no upgrade-provision for an exchange ... looks-like I'm stuck with this F4 by default.
But on the brighter-side, if the problem with my F4 can be corrected. And the initial accuracy returns, I might be able to find some-use for this inexpensive gas-ram. As I already own a Crosman Stealth springer, TR77NPSand three-MTR77NPgas-rams. I can make-room for the F4 ... after-all this break-barrel has some rather sauvette lines. If-only, the F4 ever-shoots as-good as it looks.
@aom22 I don't know much about air rifles even though I've been shooting them for many decades. I just haven't kept up with the technology because I got sidetracked into black powder rifles. But from reading the posts on this forum, for the last couple of weeks I found out that out of the box air rifles have some sort of cosmoline or other protectant applied to the inside of the barrels. If that's true with your rifle, that could account for that ridiculous inaccuracy. Running a few patches through cleans it out. Hope this helps.
This is what I blame for so many people not getting more into the sport. If they had a good experience with a starter gun they might stick around longer. Almost all the local ads for starter guns all have, "Little use" "Tin of pellets included" "like new".
Expectations are not met and people just give up on the gun.
@aom22 Running a few patches through cleans it out. Hope this helps.
After the accuracy began to decline, the first thing I did was swab-out the barrel with a few cleaning patches. In hindsight, I shoulda' cleaned the barrel before the first shot. But, I was so intent-on hearing what effect the moderator would have on the report ... my common sense went-out the window. No doubt the long-term storage lubricant in the barrel were the cause of the dieseling.
Crosman / Benjamin / Remington Air Rifles and Pistols are not refundable via Crosman Corporation. As the manufacturer, we provide Warranty Support only. Contact your Walmart point of purchase for any refund requests.
This is what I blame for so many people not getting more into the sport. Expectations are not met and people just give up on the gun.
Some of the blame should lay with the manufacturer. I'd hardly consider a 1200fps, moderated gas-ram as a good choice for a starter air rifle.
Crosman has only a few metallic-spring air rifles left-in in production or inventory. And I can't recall within the last few years of ever seeing a true Crosman springer on the shelf at my local WalMart. Moreover, neither of the metallic-spring models present as attractive marketing silhouettes as the "nitro piston" magnums and super-magnums.
I put a LDC on my HW97 and considered it a waste of money. Just sayn'. Noise reduction was nothing compared to a similar set up on a PCP. That said, I didn't try it on other springers due to mounting issues so it was really a one gun test.
I put a LDC on my HW97 and considered it a waste of money.
Which LDC?
I make a habit of trying to figure out how I could be wrong, let me get that out of the way before I open my mouth.
No doubt, there are exceptions.
Internal volume and baffle count, seems to me, the largest factor, and I suspect that there is a sweet spot for each gun, and certain platforms would require less volume with more baffles. True baffles, to strip air. Not just a fart can.
There is more to it, but I am also lacking sufficient sample size to pin it down.
I think it has to do with gas velocity, volume, and turbulence. This observation is based on DIY units, and overgassing CO2 guns.
My guess is, the majority of LDCs have an internal volume TOO LARGE for most springers, and the boot-liner baffles are shite.
I do not think that backpressure interacts with gun internals, as in PBs.
Here is an interesting device, note, it's not regulated, this is not silencer talk. Not a lot of volume, huge results.
I put a LDC on my HW97 and considered it a waste of money.
Which LDC?
Krale had an adapter for my HW97 that would allow for a screw on LDC. By the time I bought it and a LDC I was quite disappointed in the results. The 97 was backyard friendly in my opinion. I just wanted to see what it would do.
To refresh my memory I just took it in the back yard and shot it several time with and without the LDC. I have a decibel reader, not sure how to use it, that would require reading the instructions. ? ? So I set it on top of a garbage can and shot the gun with the muzzle close to it. Got a 76 with the LDC and a 79 without. Take those readings with a grain of salt as I was just watching as I'd shoot.
$80 for rifle, I wouldn't expect much. Boxed air rifle from WalMart or similar big box store, I wouldn't expect much. Can you massage some of them and can they be decent shooters? I don't know, never tried it but I suspect maybe?
I get Walmarts position though. Cost to produce- maybe $40. Cost to Walmart - Maybe $50. Margin on sale - low. Now someone tries it, doesn't like it and returns it, what happens? It's not even worth repackaging and restocking and selling it as opened box or returned. Might as well throw it out and the retailer is out $50. I'm not saying I like the concept of a disposable society but that is what we have. It comes down to expectations. You can pay more for a decent and proper moderator.
First, the 1200 fps advertised is likely with the lightest weight NON lead pellets they could find. Use something in the 8-10ish gr range and it's more likely in the 900ish range. Heavier pellets in high powered springers/gas rams just work better and will also help lessen the muzzle noise.
Second, Crosman triggers suck. Easy fix although $33 is a Charlie da Tuna GRT III trigger and yes, you can still get them. Makes a night and day difference in shooting.
Third, Crosman uses plastic pivot washers which also suck. You can make your own brass ones which will hold up longer and work better, just takes a bit of time with some brass washers. PDF file on how to make them is attached.
If you haven't already, check all 3 stock screws and make sure they're tight. I use Vibra-Tite VC-3 threadlocker but Blue Loctite also works. You might also check the barrel locking wedge area and make sure there's no gunk built up in it. Barrel don't latch right, accuracy takes a dump.
You can also kill some of that mechanical noise aka the ear ringing you get shooting by stuffing the stock even if it's just an old tshirt or shop rags. I use PA pellet foam for that trick. Works well and lightweight. You won't totally get rid of it, but your ear will ring less.
That's a nice story, but I can read, and, I'm not about to take "NO!" for an answer, not from a Wlamrat employee
Looked-up WalMart Store Return Policy ... hard to argue against written rules. My only retort ... the rules were not posted, not indicated on the receipt - I was not informed by the Store.
Sales of the following items are final and may not be returned:
I put a LDC on my HW97 and considered it a waste of money. Just sayn'. Noise reduction was nothing compared to a similar set up on a PCP.
Here's a video of a moderator being installed on an HW97 ... good comparison - I think. Just goes to show perception and reality are sometimes not the same. When in doubt, instrumentation can provide a more certain conclusion. The demonstration begins at 4:20-minute mark and is repeated at 7:40-minute because of technical limitations.
I put a LDC on my HW97 and considered it a waste of money. Just sayn'. Noise reduction was nothing compared to a similar set up on a PCP.
Here's a video of a moderator being installed on an HW97 ... good comparison. Just goes to show perception and reality are sometimes in conflict. When in doubt, instrumentation can provide a more certain conclusion. The demonstration begins at 4:20-minute mark and is repeated at 7:40-minute because of technical limitations.
No one is accusing you of misrepresenting anything, just a poor signal to noise ratio in your location, at that particular time of day.
WELL!, I personally have never been so offended. I'm taking my pellets and going home!!! ? ?
Part of it is I'm more of a PCP guy and when I have a noisy gun a LDC makes a night and day difference. On the springer, not so much. The thing is it's not even the barrel discharge. The springers make more mechanical noise that just doesn't change much.
Part of it is I'm more of a PCP guy and when I have a noisy gun a LDC makes a night and day difference. On the springer, not so much. The thing is it's not even the barrel discharge. The springers make more mechanical noise that just doesn't change much.
I tend to agree. Consider the noises made by a Red Ryder ... lots of mechanical sounds. The "thonk" of the spring and piston that can be easily distinguished from the "tufft" of the air discharge.
In the following video, at approximately 25-seconds note of the db reading as the cocking-lever is brought-to-stop at full-cock. The meter jumps-to 85.8. Returning the lever to the locked position, the meter reads 80.9 at 32-seconds.
The thing with Walmart like many other large chains is they negotiate themselves a pretty good deal. The suppliers will produce lower quality products to make up for the deal and Walmart, Lowes, Home depot etc. Or as in this case disassociate warranty and returns from the vendor. Crosman may find they will pay an even bigger price than they bargained for, especially if most who buy Crosman get them at Walmart.
Anything I buy at Walmart, I'm gonna tinker with and only reason I'd buy something from them anyway, so no worries or hassles on a return.
While you'll never get rid of it all, springer and gas ram noise can be reduced. I said reduced because no matter which, you'll never get rid of it all. Gas rams can be tuned at least to a point. Same stuff you'd do to a spring rifle, just minus the spring. I've also tinkered with a piece of Delrin at the end of the piston shaft to reduce that pinging noise from it smacking the piston. Light coat of 2 part quick dry poly epoxy on the slot in the piston the cocking arm rides in to cut down on the metal to metal noise the arm makes. Poor man's button job aka a piece of Mt Dew bottle superglued to the top of the piston to reduce the metal to metal noise when it slides against the top of the compression chamber. They all help a little along with a nicely fit seal and proper lube.
Synthetic stocks? They get stuffed. My favorite way is PA pellet foam cut to fit, coated with black rubberized silicone and shoved inside. The foam lets air in so it dries nice, then a final coat over the end, let it dry and put the buttpad back on. Lightweight yet muzzles the echo from firing. Sticky backed sound absorber, there's any number of kinds, to line the inside of the stock with, then drop the action back in. Helps cut down some on the action noise when shooting.
Know a good gunsmith, they can thread the end of the barrel for 1/2-20 UNF for a screw on LDC. There's also a guy on Ebay from Poland that custom makes barrel adapters to pretty much any size and color you might want, come with a thread protector cap, isn't crazy expensive and actually ships fairly fast. I have a couple of his adapters in black and yes, at least in my case, an LDC cut down on the muzzle noise and especially downrange. I had a friend shoot the rifle while I stood downrange in a very safe place and there was a quite noticeable difference.
Lots of ways to do things, just gotta think outside the box...lol.
Or as in this case disassociate warranty and returns from the vendor. Crosman may find they will pay an even bigger price than they bargained for, especially if most who buy Crosman get them at Walmart.
I don’t have a problem with Crosman ... they’re standing-by their product. As for a refund FROM Crosman, they didn’t take my money ... WalMart did. As-such, the refund should have been WalMart’s responsibility. WalMart’s RETURN/REFUND policy is at the heart of my problem ... not Crosman.
While working as a engineering consultant in a state where it was legal... the indoor pot growers know, you cannot get rid of the sound of air being moved.
Even a ductboard sound trap which forces the air through 2 complete 360 degree turns, may completely kill the sound of the fan/s, but the air moved will still be audible. Ductboard is fiber wool (coarse fiberglass) truly excellent sound attenuation material, and non-flammable.
Use silicone feet for the fan mounting. Drill some 1/8" holes in a full tube of silicone, place in the sun. Once cured, it can be cut into hockey pucks, which make fantastic feet, capable of holding substantial weight. I once had my 80gal 5hp air compressor riding on 3 of these feet. Amazing difference.
What you CAN do, is reduce the sound level to within 6 or 8db of ambient, thereby reducing the ability to discern the "whoosh" from ambient noise, as distance increases. From across the room, the gigantic contraption can barely be heard running, and you mostly hear the wind against your ears.
I like memory foam, for inside plastic stocks.
What SteveP said about the downrange sound.
Look at these closely, and think about the real value of taking 12db off the peak. How does that sound downrange?
The last pic is related to hearing aids, hence the signal mark at the front row pupil.
I stopped at Walmart today for something completely different, but decided to walk through sporting goods. There, posted on the sales case, was the policy for returning airsoft, BB and pellet guns. They give a number to call for returns and exchanges. I get the impression that the big issue here is that they don't want people walking into the stores carrying guns of any kind. I freaks the other customers out, and causes calls to law enforcement. The stores don't want that kind of publicity!
After purchasing a firearm or airgun at WalMart ... no one leaves openly-carrying a firearm/airgun in their bare hands. The firearm/airgun is in an OEM—box, gun-case/cover. Same for RETURNS ... in an OEM-box, gun-case/cover - never OPEN CARRY.
When I attempted to RETURN my F4 ... it was contained inside the OEM-box. In what manner I was bringing the airgun into the store ... DOES NOT CHANGE WalMart’s written policy concerning Refunds/Returns of Crosman airguns.
My experience with silencers on springers is that they will make much more difference down range than they do for the shooter or anyone near the rifle.
Well, my replacement F4 arrived a week-ago. Looks-like a brand-new rifle ... not a refurbished example and not my repaired original gun. However, I've been working involuntary-overtime intermittently for the last couple of months. As-such, I haven't had time to work-with the replacement gas-ram break-barrel.
Moreover, my three moderated Weihrauch springers arrived yesterday. These Tectonic break-barrels have been consuming what little-time I have.
I beg to differ - sir. After firing my new moderated German springers ... I'm a believer. I cede the reduction in sound-signature is nowhere-near as pronounced as-on PCP/MSP guns. And, the mechanical sounds produced by the spring & piston still account for the majority of noise generated by a springer.
Top: HW30K Middle: HW50K Bottom: HW80K
Still, there appears to-be .... in-my-opinion ... some perceivable improvement. Enough-so, for me to consider the additional expense of a moderator to be cost-effective. But, it will take some sound-pressure instrumentation to prove the point. Electronic equipment I don't own - for now.
However in the link below, is a video of a fella that did take-the-time to measure the difference indoors.
So-much-so, I pulled-the-trigger on a couple of German break-barrels I've had my-eyes-on for a couple of months. A trifecta of Teutonic-springers with moderators.
Yep, I’ve been thinking about-this for quite-a-while ever-since I-first-spied an HW30 Urban Pro.
Yep, a lot of INVOLUNTARY overtime. 12-hr days being more frequent than the normal 8:45 I’m scheduled for. And on occasion, 16-hr days back-to-back-to-back. Very hard living on 3 1/2 hours of sleep for three nights in-a-row.
Yesterday was the first-time I had the opportunity to shoot my replacement F4. Things did not go-well.
The trigger-pull is still too-heavy ... way-too-heavy for me to extract any accuracy from this airgun. Even-after entirely adjusting-out the 1st-stage length-of-travel ... there is-still way-too-much travel remaining in the 2nd-stage. The final pull-through is very distracting from the effort of keeping the reticle on-target. Before encountering a vague/uncertain let-off.
My German springers have spoiled-me concerning trigger performance. With the F4, after about 20 sighter-shoots, my index-finger was so-fatigued. I couldn't pulling-the-trigger with the pad of my trigger-finger with any consistency. I had to place the trigger-blade at the intersection of the 1st-and-2nd joint to-get enough-leverage for a controllable tug. Not good for accuracy as my hold was less consistent.
Anyway, the best I could manage accuracy-wise was approximately an 1-inch at 10-meters. At 20-yards, the groups opened-up to well-over 2-inches ... I'm guessing minute-of-a beer can. As it stands, pretty useless for my purposes.
I'm figuring an aftermarket-trigger will improve accuracy significantly. But, I'm not sure this will be the case. And, the added expense may constitute 1/3 the cost of the F4. I'm not sure it is worth the gamble - that is, throwing more good-money after an inexpensive air rifle. I'm thinkings ... silk purse out-of a sow's ear. Needless-to-say, I'm disappointed in this outcome.
Even-so, the F4 may provide sufficient accuracy for defending the bird feeders at 10-yards/meters. I always put-down some commercial bird feed ... milo, chicken-scratch, cracked-corn and other grains. This is to distract the larger ground-feeding birds away from the hanging feeding-stations. However as-of-late, my tactic has not been working as-well as I'd like. I've noticed some doves perched-on the suspended bird feeding stations.
If what I suspect materizies, collared eurasian dove will not be far-behind. However, eurasian dove are fair-game under Texas law ... non-indigenous, invasive, dominating and out-competing native dove. To this short-range end, I'm thinking the F4 should serve-well-enough with a red-dot mounted.
But, just when I thought ... things couldn't get worse ... they did. The noise-generated by the QuietFire (moderated) F4 attracted the attention of an unfriendly neighbor from-across the alley from me - not good. Even though, my shooting position was at least five-feet inside the house.
And, I was shooting-to-the-outside through the utility-window in our laundry-room. I made certain not-to-extend the barrel-muzzle outside the window ... always remaining well-inside the window sill.
Lucky-Shot @ 8-yds Standing Off-Hand Guessing My Final-Zero
Well, that was yesterday ... as-of today, I'm at-least 9-feet away from the inside-wall of the window-opening. While I've been in-process of aligning and sighting-in the center-dot of the CenterPoint 72602 Red/Green Multi-Reticle sight at primarily at 10-to-12 yards. The red-dot is installed on a Diana ZR-Mount.
I prefer the 3-vertical-dot reticle in Green @ 12-yds, 20-Clicks per Dot POA/POI
Sure is a-lot easier fighting the heavy-trigger with a no-magnification red-dot rather-than with a 12-power scope. Now, I'm wishing I had some magnification ... 3X might-be perfect. LOL Anyway, until I get a replacement trigger, this is the configuration the F4 is gonna remain-in.
I'm wondering if "Steve in NC" may have a solution for me - just sent him a message.
This thread should be titled "Making chicken soup, from chicken poop."
Posted by: @aom22
But, just when I thought ... things couldn't get worse ... they did. The noise-generated by the QuietFire (moderated) F4 attracted the attention of an unfriendly neighbor from-across the alley from me - not good. Even though, my shooting position was at least five-feet inside the house.
And, I was shooting-to-the-outside through the utility-window in our laundry-room.
Well, that was yesterday ... as-of today, I'm at-least 9-feet away from the inside-wall of the window-opening.
You need a tighter keyhole, and acoustic damping.
Maybe a couple decorative rubber mats hung outside the window.
This thread should be titled "Making chicken soup, from chicken poop."
I put-it a little more delicately ... earlier. LOL
Posted by: @aom22
And, the added expense may constitute 1/3 the cost of the F4. I'm not sure it is worth the gamble - that is, throwing more good-money after an inexpensive air rifle. I'm thinking ... silk purse out-of a sow's ear.
Ideally, I would prefer to move somewhere outside the city limits. But, the wife won't-have-it. So, quieter air guns it is.
As-for the unfriendly neighbor ... even the sight of a Daisy Red Ryder would probably make-him see RED.
The screw in the trigger is a 3mm X 5mm and you replace it with a 3mm x 8mm or 3mm X 10mm screw. ( it only needs to be adjusted one thread deeper than the stock screw)
You don't even have to remove the barrel if you don't want to, but I suggest you do so you can pull the "lawyer spring" from the smallest pin in the trigger as well.
It's the one that looks like a brush spring.
And, after watching the video "How To Fix A Crosman Trigger, The Do's and Dont's, Step by Step." I decided to replace the trigger-adjustment-screw and remove the "lawyer spring" as mentioned in the video and post. This all was prompted after learning that Steve in NC didn't have the trigger I needed in-stock.
Trigger Pull for 5-Shots before modification Average: 6-lbs 3.1-oz Peak: 6-lbs 6.6-oz Minimum: 6-lbs 15.1-oz
Trigger Pull for 5-Shots after modification Average: 2-lbs 11.9-oz Peak: 2-lbs 14.3-oz Minimum: 2-lbs 10.3-oz
The net result was a over 50-percent reduction in trigger-pull weight!!! Not bad, considering the replacement M3x8 screw only cost 23-cents.
Now, the trigger is much-more manageable and serviceable - acceptable enough. However, the removal of the "lawyer spring" left-me with an unsprung 1st-stage. The trigger just flops around ... a replacement hair-spring may-be in the offing.
After re-reading and giving further consideration to the November 15, 2018 at 4:22 pm post. I realized the M3x8 screw I initially installed may-not have been the best-choice to lighten the trigger-pull. In-fact, I turned the M3x8 adjustment-screw, clockwise, as deep-as-possible. This yielded a 2-lb 4.1-oz pull ... the trigger-pull in-deed was lightened more.
The screw in the trigger is a 3mm X 5mm and you replace it with a 3mm x 8mm or 3mm X 10mm screw. (it only needs to be adjusted one thread deeper than the stock screw)
If you install a bearing, don't change the screw as you would end up adjusting it back to OEM because of the bearing height. The bearing is a 5mm x 8mm x 2.5mm is the maximum size where the cocking and safety will work correctly on a Crossman NP.
With all of this in-mind, I decided to exchange the 23-cent replacement M3x8 screw with a 25-cent M3x10 fastener. In the process of doing-so, I dabbed the screw with medium-strength blue lock-tight. Hopefully, after my adjustments are complete ... the screw-setting will remain stable.
Trigger Pull for 5-Shots after owner adjustments and before any modification Average: 6-lbs 3.1-oz Peak: 6-lbs 6.6-oz Minimum: 6-lbs 15.1-oz
Trigger Pull for 5-Shots after an M3x8 replacement screw modification Average: 2-lbs 11.9-oz Peak: 2-lbs 14.3-oz Minimum: 2-lbs 10.3-oz Trigger Pull for 5-Shots after an M3x10 fastener exchange and adjustment Average: 1-lbs 9.5-oz Peak: 1-lbs 11.5-oz Minimum: 1-lbs 7.7-oz
I made certain the safety would engage/disengage without the rifle going-off. Moreover, I "bump-checked" the rifle as well - no accidental discharge occurred.
When I installed the M3x10 adjustment screw, I turned the fastener-in (clockwise) until the sear would-not hold-back the piston at full-cock. Then, I turned the screw counter-clockwise until the piston would lock into place. Afterward, I gave an additional 1/8-turn counter-clockwise to ensure no accidental discharge would take-place.
I took a break from my work with the F4 to walk the dog. When it came-to-me ... a Paul Capello review-video about a Crosman gas-ram rifle. The key to the nitro piston accuracy ... hold the forearm securely.
Posted by: @aom22
Moreover, my experience with gas-rams has been ... not good - I have a very hard time shooting them accurately. The MTR is no different. It was very challenging to extract good-accuracy from - at least for me. I found the MTR to be very hold sensitive. But, if ya stumble across what she likes ... the MTR rewarded my efforts. I must add, it was a Paul Capello’s review: Crosman MTR77 Nitro Piston - Airgun Reporter Episode #97 at the 3-min 40-sec mark that gave me insight into the hold the MTR demanded to shoot accurately.
When I got home, I posted a fresh target at the 10-meter marker. And, took my standing position at least 9-feet inside the house and away from the window.
This time I held the F4 in a conventional AR-15 offhand hold. The rifle making light contact with my shoulder with a moderately-light-hold on the pistol grip. Proportional to the necessary trigger-pull However, I held the rifle forend just-in-front of the trigger-guard in a full no-slip grip. My fingers wrapped-around the forend as-if I were holding a 16-oz water-bottle while waving-it in the air.
Below is the culmination of my version of Capello's-MTR77-hold and the reduced trigger-pull. It all ... finally ... worked-out.
I Love My F4. Took Me About A Week to Get to Really Know & Understand Her. After First Handling, I Was Almost Ready To Box Her Up & Give To A Friend. Discharged First Pellet I Loaded Into Ceiling, Safety Takes A Minute To Get Used To. Barely Touched Trigger Accidentally Walking With It To My Shooting Spot & BOOM thing fires scared the BEJESUS outta me. Was So Confused. Anyways, Took a Little Time To Zero In Scope, Then A Little More Time to Adjust Trigger, and Some Time to just Get the Feel for her. And it was fairly loud, kinda fairly very loud. then, somewhere around the 1 week mark, everything seemingly just came together. Trigger IS THE MOST Crisp, Responsive, Literal extension of my finger, Allows Me to Literally, Confidently, PLACE my shot. Can hit a dime 9/10 times consistently (60 feet, max distance I can shoot at home range, indoor-outdoor setup, wall by fireplace in living room ---> glass sliding door (opened) in dining room, leading out to backyard, over pool, to various targets hanging from tree in corner of backyard in front of 6 foot concrete block wall). The thing is virtually silent. Makes almost no noise at all. Hits like a truck. Dead on accurate. Virtually silent. Devastates. .177 but it competes pound for pound with my .25 PCP Hatsan AT44-(9) Long, which shoots thru and thru, entry/exit blowing out back of 6" diameter block of ice, frozen hard solid for days, inside a 2mm thick aluminum cylinder. Obviously that one could make a head turn into a poof cloud of atomized red liquid droplets with proper pellet ammo. F4 would just be a cleaner kill shot. They both bury pellets 3" deep into my target of (4) 6" Lengths of 4"x4" wood blocks fastened together to make an 8" x 8" square. Both are virtual hole in hole tack-drivers if you want to concentrate that much and hit your spot, otherwise easy 2" groupings with your eyes closed. Bottom line, I love the .25cal Hatsan at44-long pcp, &, I REALLY love Crosman F4 Nitro Break Barrel .177cal. (F4 averages 1130fps on chronograph with 10.6gr pellet).
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