My .20 Beeman Crow Magnum II(1/2?). (Just lots of words & pics)
I’m overdue for a long winded post ?
Picked this up from Dave Slade along with a beautiful Beeman RX2 .20 specimen in which he rebuilt both just last month, with receipts. My intent was to re-sell them but the Crow Mag has me wondering about keeping it, haven’t quite decided on that one. RX2 I’ll let go of since I already have a new style HW90 .20 and I don’t have personal tastes for laminates with the exception of my FWB 603jr SSP. I fear that I may be going down the slippery slope of collecting but I’ll sell whatever doesn’t fit my tastes, including from current inventory when I figure that out.
Anyway, Crow Mag came from a man’s wife for Dave to sell for her. Didn’t inquire anymore on that situation.
Dave set it up for 27 FPE. I was talking to a well-known stock maker I’ve been dealing with about the serial number after mentioning it during our conversation. He is very knowledgeable on Theobens. From the info derived, the CM II was changed over to the CM III in March of 1994. Apparently mine has a CM III SN. I got a little confused on what Dave was saying in regards to the actual version and didn’t press more at the time. Stock maker asked for photos to help me sort it out. It was decided that it is definitely a CM II from the Omega trigger setup but may have a few bits from the III? I do know from Dave that it has the parachute type seal as opposed to the O-ring sealed steel piston face thus eliminating the annoying ‘ping’ at the end of the shot cycle and provides a more overall nicer cycle. It still has the HE system I’m told. Because of the parachute seal I’m told it makes it easier to cock (as described in Beeman Cat’s. edition 17 & 18) than other versions. According to those editions cocking force is about 15 lbs less I believe. I can tell you it cocks about the same force as my HW90’s, maybe a little more? From my Beeman catalogs I assume the CM I was called the “CM Classic?) The CM III is described in Beeman’s last edition, #20 & possibly the 1995 edition that I don’t have. I’m guessing there was never a CM IV? Haven’t chronied this one but did fire a few shots out the back door.
I bought a .20 Eliminator IV from Straight Shooters but all too quickly sold it in 2005 for money reasons. I do recall that one was pretty stiff to cock. It also had the standard walnut stock because by then the Hyedua (pronounced SHEDUWA) was deemed protected. This one has the Hyedua stock and is quite stunning in comparison. The African Walnut appears holographic in the direct sunlight. Hard to see it as well from my LED lighting in the pics. You guys that have or have had them are probably saying so what? LOL
This is my first Theoben of this vintage and I’m impressed with the fit and finish of it. Correct me if wrong but I think these were made and fitted individually by hand instead of production line fashion. You can see the serial# was hand fitted LOL. From looking over the piece, it does not appear to ever had much use on it? I see one long & narrow pressure mark, 1 small scratch and a tiny speck of blueing missing.
Knowledgeable folks please chime in. I guarantee there is much I do not know of Theoben history. What's up with the 5.05 mm?
Nice. You got one with the good trigger ?
I have factory adjustment instructions. Don't try to go too light. It's a single stage. Less than .030 sear engagement not recommended.
I will be posting the information I have soon.
Does it have a Zephyr seal? Are there Zepher seals, or any other piston seals, Available for Purchase for the Theobens anywhere? I haven't seen any available for quite some time.
Isn’t the Zephyr seal for Eliminator Mk 3 & 4 and CM III? Is that the one that fits over piston face like a ‘sock’?
All I know is that CitizenK pointed out in another post a short while back that Impact Airguns in the UK still puts out parts for their formally known Theobens. D. Slade confirmed this. I’ve seen from gun auctions websites in the UK advertising Theobens that just got back from being serviced at Impact. Not sure what to make of it all but that’s about all I know. Mine has the parachute ‘style’ seal. Not sure of the exact nomenclature, but I was told that likely as not he nor I would still be above ground by the time this new seal would need replaced….sounds kind of dark but I’d be ok with that LOL
I do have the pump but I’m sure he meant barring any foolishness or stupidity on my part. Wish I could tell you more of the seal you mentioned.
The Zephyrs fit on like a FWB 124 but has a lug to hold from rotating. I have a good used one given to me by Davis Schwesinger as my only spare. The Impact Airguns website seems dead. IDK.
Many later Theobens use o rings. I've read UK posts where crown seals can't be sourced for early Siroccos. So they converted the piston to o rings.
Zephyr seal fits early Theoben Sirocco, Eliminator. And also Crusaders. Evolution. That's where they returned to the crown seal as Theoben calls them.
Mr. Slade must have a source or stash but he will not sell parts or at least wouldn't when I inquired.
The best articles about Theoben rammers were Airgun World magazine write ups as the various models came out. A lot of good history there.
Mr. Slade must have a source or stash but he will not sell parts or at least wouldn't when I inquired.
I don't know what Dave stocks and wouldn't ask because his gig is gunsmith. I quickly figured that out. Very pleasant in person but a good businessman as it should be. He won't sell parts. His website is also completely outdated but has all the work he needs. I saw his inbound stockpile as well as his outbound...pretty impressive. I think the wizard of Minor hill only needs his reputation for all the work he needs. I watched him finish up a customers gun on my last trip and noticed a couple things he did in a matter of minutes that would take me on the order of hour(s) and I'm fairly capable. Its all 2nd nature for Dave and truly a master of his craft. It's not my job to promote him but he deserves that kind of credit. As I was saying, he doesn't sell parts. Much of the stuff that you or I cannot obtain, he can through his UK connection, being of UK origin himself. As of recently, he has now lived slightly longer in the states than the UK.
A good example is the UK Beeman Kodiak that he built up proper for me. I cannot even order something as small as a breech seal for it because it is considered a full fledged firearm over there. Chambers lists it (Patriot) under the firearm category. He obtained ALL parts for a complete master tune. -The UK connection LOL.
I did find this with some digging from memory:
https://www.airgunspares.com/gunspares/airgun-spares/theoben.html?p=2
http://impactairguns.co.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=90
There may be others with more digging.
Edit: Because of my seal type (maybe it is referred to as as a Zephyr?), it doesn't use the extra o-ring(s) for sealing thus the reason it cocks with a good bit less effort from not having to overcome the extra friction. It also has a higher static psi charge which apparently has something to do with requiring less force. There is lots of truth in Beemans catalogs regarding the Mk 2 & 3.
For decades, I thought Dave was the only one in the U.S. that knew the mysteries around the Theoben powerplants until we all watched Sonny figure it out and documented it for us. I recently learned of another individual who is capable of rebuilding these. Mike Abernethy. Maybe you are as well as others? I don't believe Mike prefers doing it but he can and is more enlightened on the Siroccos which if I'm correct, are more in his wheelhouse. He also occasionally travels to the UK. Might be another resource for you? I believe he stays quite busy with his day job fyi.
Thanks. Impact directs you to dealers that have nothing in stock. Unless I missed something.
Crown seals don't use "extra" o rings. The guns that use o ring piston seals don't have a crown seal. No mystery. BSA used o ring piston seals since about 1966. All of the Mercury, Meteor, and Airsporter line since then use o rings. The Meteor became a Gamo powerplant more recently with a BSA barrel.
No mystery to the rams. They use o rings, mineral engine oil internally, and STP or Wynns between ram seals.
My gun came with service instructions. I will post that material soon. I'm pretty busy lately.
This is for a Sirocco Deluxe I bought a few years ago. Like... 33.
The invoice says I did not receive the rings. Actually I bought the rings and the dovetail adapter just in case. I never used the adapter.
I shot this group about two weeks ago using an Airmax scope 2-7x32 with crosshairs. A little thick. Could do better with another scope. Five shots fired at a hole I made during sight in. Used for point of aim. 25 yards
I had an idea that you would know something about the Theoben rams ? No doubt that all are not equal but surely carry similarities that you'd be able to tackle. For many years, the Eliminator rams at least, remained a mystery in the U.S. ..trust me. Even in the UK end users that understood them enough were rare in those years.
Pretty cool that you got an actual service manual with your Sirocco! I'll guess that service manuals were omitted with later sales. I didn't get one with my Eliminator 17 years ago. Perhaps in part to people over pumping and burning seals?
I saved the info you posted. I keep good files on information like that. Looking forward to the info on the trigger adjustment as well.
BTW, very nice shooting & the target is symbolic of the postal system..shot to shizz! LOL Can hardly wait to see how they work out in the coming holidays ?
Much appreciate all the info KWK. Much to decipher. I'll look for Airgun World magazine articles when I get time as well.
Thanks
Wow, nice airguns! Enjoyable craftmanship and function of Theobens.
That's one nice lookin' shooter you've got there, Bo! Congrats!
And I think I know what you mean about that "holographic effect" of your stock, too. I have a Lyman Great Plains muzzleloader (built from a kit) that has a European walnut stock that has that same type of effect to it. And in addition to that holographic effect, it also has some fairly decent tiger striping to it, too. (Talk about luck of the draw for a mail order!) It started life as blond walnut but after a couple coats of stain and several hand rubbed coats of oil it now looks like a piece of 100+ year old reddish brown walnut with a bit of an amber tint. A fitting look for a Hawken imitation, I think.
Anyway, enjoy that there purty bazooka! Hope you can find a place where you can really stretch it's legs and see what it's got. ?
Anyway, enjoy that there purty bazooka! Hope you can find a place where you can really stretch it's legs and see what it's got. ?
“Pretty bazooka” I like that analogy LOL Thanks Jim! Sounds like you created a fine muzzle loader yourself?
Yes indeed I need a place to see how far I can reach with it. I need to visit my brothers 11 acre place. My goal is to have this place gone and find something more gun friendly. I’m shooting for early spring ?
You other readers who have such places are fortunate indeed! Until I get “there” it’s fun gearing up for the ride?
Looking forward to the info on the trigger adjustment as well.
Thanks
LOL! Looook again!
The trigger adjustment instructions are in there. ? I don't know if anything changed when the different type safeties were added. i believe the "Omega copy" trigger was used until 1994. A very good crisp trigger. Don't try to whittle it down to ounces. Danger! ? It's not a true 2 stage.
Somebody in UK has a pdf or something with a list of all the Theoben articles in the Airgun World rag. I lost the page that showed the link to it. ? I think that was on the wonderful Airguns BBS forum. Somebody, please find that again!!! AWESOME amount of info. Covers several years of Theoben OLD GOLD. The Theoben Golden years. FIND IT!!!! ?
LOL! Looook again!
Doh!!!
Sorry KWK. Busy day. I copied the images and threw it in my Crow Magnum folder without totally reading. Good to know where it is ?
Somebody in UK
Rotherham Owl / Steven O'Mara I think. You would need to be a member there to see the scans in his media library: https://www.airgunforum.co.uk/community/index.php?media/users/rotherham-owl.36473/&page=1 Note; the scans are all in jpg format.
Maybe one day he will do for Theoben what he did for Air Arms: https://www.airarmsanorak.co.uk
At one time Rotherham Owl did have one for Theoben on his airarmsanorak site. For some reason he took it down. I asked him about that and I think he said it was something about capacity or limits...but I may be wrong. Memory is not as good as it used to be.
This does not start at the beginning but you can flip forwards or back to see articles. Sometimes it doesn't load properly. Enjoy
Thank you kindly. That's exactly what I was looking for!
You can also check the Theoben Gas Ram Owners group on FB. They have a lot of the original documentation available. It is a members only group.
Thank you all! Good stuff unearthed indeed ?
Now I have to figure out which scope to use. From the horse's mouth I now know that the Dampa mount on this was designed for 3-9 & 4-12 scopes, max. I'd like to have the 4-12 but I think only the Beeman BR 68R fits that bill at 15.2oz. I have Lupy's 3-9 EFR's @ 12.1oz. The Lupy VX-3i 6.5-20x40 weighs 17.8oz. I'd love to have at least one of those higher power Luepold's but from what I understand, it may quickly wear out the rubber bushings in the Dampa mount. The 68R would be a difficult scope to find so what to do? The Luepold optics have spoiled me LOL The BR scopes are pretty good looking through too.
At one time Rotherham Owl did have one for Theoben on his airarmsanorak site. For some reason he took it down. I asked him about that and I think he said it was something about capacity or limits...but I may be wrong. Memory is not as good as it used to be.
This does not start at the beginning but you can flip forwards or back to see articles. Sometimes it doesn't load properly. Enjoy
I can't get it to load anymore. ?
Slade is the first person that I have ever heard say the parachute seal is better in these rifles.
As opposed to the O-rings some models used?
Straitflite. want to let you know I now have your .20 Eliminator from 2005. I do believe it has a Hyedua stock because of the holographic appearance and you are right it is stiff to cock.
Awesome Frank!
Actually, that one is walnut with very nice lines! ? Originally bought it from Straight Shooters and IIRC amongst the last to be imported. Not sure when the export ban on Hyedua began. Maybe it was during the MK III period?
Given the way Sonny takes care of things, it is no doubt still as new.
Yes, in my experience the only issue that I've seen with the "O" ring system is they can get hard over time. The power of these rifles are capable of, the parachute/Zepher seals are prone to burn.
Easy repair to the "O" ring models, and I have the replacement "O" rings for these since I bought several the last time I rebuilt one.
@jim-bentley
I honestly don’t know which seal type is best. We do know that too many were overcharging with the pump; because of that changes were made, or at least that’s my take.
I’ve learned enough from dealing with the former Beeman gunsmith/Theoben importer to believe him when he says that the parachute seal has a better shot cycle. Been 15 years since I’ve shot the mk4 that Frank now owns so I don’t remember. What Dave did tell me was that if I leave the power where it is, He & I will no longer be around before a reseal will be needed. That’s not to say that I’ll run 20000 rounds through it. I may reduce power at some point but for now, I’m leaving it be.
I can only fathom that Dave has seen his share.
