Looking for 0.25 Ca...
 

Looking for 0.25 Caliber Springer. Recommendations? Why did manufacturers stop producing 0.25 Springers?  

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MASSHOLE_AIRGUN_MILITIA
(@masshole_airgun_militia)
Joined: 2 months ago
Posts: 16
2019-11-12 23:43:28  

Looking for 0.25 Caliber Springer.

1) Recommendations for a 0.25 Springer? Any 0.25 Springers to avoid. I am looking for good/great trigger, accuracy, power, and etc.

2) Why did manufacturers stop producing 0.25 Springers? (i.e. Gamo Socom, etc.)

 


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ribbonstone
(@ribbonstone)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 267
2019-11-20 20:53:26  

The Webley Xocert, Stingray,etc. are long gone.  So are the BSA Supersport/lightening (more recently gone)...were even some RWS 48's in .25...and likely a ship-pot of other 15-20 foot pounds .25 springers.

 

Just didn't have the traction to stay in the market. 15-16foot pounds in .177 wasn't bad (lets say 8.4gr. at near 900fps) wasn't hard to achieve...but the same energy with a 25gr. pellet at  520fps wasn't really producing a feeding frenzy for .25 versions.

 

THINGS I WONDER ABOUT:

 

1. MOST (if not all) of the ,25 springers NOT FOR SALE rely on a gas-spring. Nothing against that system, other than once it finally craps out, will be much more of a PIA to replace.

 

 


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JiminPGH
(@jiminpgh)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 409
2019-11-20 21:01:19  
Posted by: @bobbitchin

@masshole_airgun_militia

Hi, I am new to this forum so please bare with me. The gun that you were talking about, what does something like that cost and is it available online? 

If you are asking me about the original spring piston Webley Eclipse, then no.  Not available on line, and in fact VERY rarely available on the used market.  Low volume, high quality underlever spring rifle, mostly made in .177, and to a lesser extent in .22.  Factory .25 cal versions were rare when they were made, and are even more so now.

The original Webley Eclipse rifle was somewhat unique in that it had an aluminum  compression tube, which gave the gun a very nice nose-heavy balance.

Good luck in your quest.


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ekmeister
(@ekmeister)
Member of Trade
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 555
2019-11-20 22:05:41  

@ribbonstone

I tuned a .25 caliber RWS 48 or 52, can't remember which, years ago, using the Maccari Monolith Kit that he made at the time. I remember like it was yesterday that I got right at 700 fps. out of it with a 20 grain H&N FTT pellet. (It may have been called the FTS or the Diana Dome pellet back then). Anyway, that's just a little over 21.5 FPE. That's very respectable. You can definitely do small game hunting with that.

I want to add that while it did have a springer shot cycle, it was not a harsh springer shot cycle. A decent quality springer scope would have stood up to it, and it wasn't harder than most other good guns in that energy category to shoot accurately. Some people don't like the weight of those two particular side-lever guns, but the weight adds stability and smoothness to the shot cycle. Good accuracy will always be the payoff there.

Knowing what I do now, if the gun was a good specimen, I feel sure that I could get more like 720 or so out of it. That may not sound like a lot of difference, but with a 20 grain pellet, that's another 1.5 FPE.  The ARH ZRT kit could probably do that much in the right gun, assuming it was installed correctly. 'Always check your piston and breech seals' is part of what I'm referring to in that last comment.

In fact, just the other day I read a post here on the forum somewhere--it could even be in this thread--that someone had a .25 cal. RWS 52 that was also shooting right around that velocity IIRC. I don't think you can get them in .25 caliber as a brand new gun anymore. But, they are still available in 22 caliber. And at 850 fps. in a good gun, with a with a mid-weight pellet, that still has you coming in at just a tad over 23 FPE.

Some people will look at that energy number, and say my pre-charged gun can shoot a lot harder than that. And in many cases, of course, they'd be absolutely right.

But the pre-charged levels have gotten so high, that they tend to make high springer power levels look a lot weaker than they really are.  It wasn't all that many years ago we were pretty proud of a spring gun that could put out 12 FPE. Many is the squirrel that did not live to tell the tale (tail??) after meeting one of those. I like mine deep-fried, or after a few hours over charcoal in a smoker-grill.

I haven't hunted in years, but if I had a backyard full of the critters like I used to, it would sure be tempting. Nowadays I just can't help but remember a little joke of a phrase I saw on a bumper sticker one time, many years ago. I'll adjust the saying a little so it applies to what I'm talking about here from a squirrel's point of view: " What a beautiful day! Now watch some (jerk) come along with an air gun".

Safe and Happy Shooting!

Ed, the Airgun TuneMeister

https://www.airguntunemeister.com/


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ribbonstone
(@ribbonstone)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 267
2019-11-20 23:04:38  

Power really isn't the issue,,.it's a game that .25 springers can't play very well outside of a springer to springer comparison.

I'd not sweat the energy of a .25 springer.  Odd as it as it seems, there really is a noticeably difference  a .177 10.3@ 935fps. and a .25 28gr. @ 575fps, even though the energy is about the same.


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ekmeister
(@ekmeister)
Member of Trade
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 555
2019-11-20 23:40:15  

Yeah, I know.  This could go round and round in circles, like it often does. I'm not trying to do that here.

I was just trying to say that at 700 feet per second or more, that one particular power plant and .25 caliber rifle makes for a nice springer, with enough energy to hunt, as well as plink. It's not terribly loopy.

I really wasn't talking about 575 fps. in .25 caliber. That would be a lot more loopy.

I would also choose .177 caliber in a 12 FPE gun. And, my tuned RWS 34 Panther in .22 caliber is very-nice at a little over 17 FPE. The shot cycle is quite docile, although I did add a little weight to the hollow synthetic stock to make it more that way. Had it been a wooden stock, I wouldn't have needed the extra weight.

For maximum power at basically zero recoil, buy a PCP everyday, and twice on Sunday. A bunch of those have multiple shot capability with their multi-shot magazines. You can buy a cheaper scope, too.

It may surprise some folks to know that from time to time, to this day I still get some calls from people who really still like springers, own more than a dozen, and want to get yet another one tuned.

This whole situation tends to remind me of the recurve bow vs. the compound bow situation. In fact, there are more than a few parallels. Even so, some people still like and shoot their recurve bows, although they may also own and shoot one or more compound bows.

Like we people of the sixties used to say, peace out, LOL.

Safe and Happy Shooting!

Ed, the Airgun TuneMeister

https://www.airguntunemeister.com/


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Alejandro O. Martinez
(@aom22)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 56
2019-11-22 09:56:00  

Consider Sweep Volume ... Consider Hatsan 135

I own a Hatsan 125 Sniper in .25 ... quality is an issue.
As such, I had Mike Ellingsworth  tune my 125 Sniper.
In hindsight, I should have bought a 125 in .22 caliber.
And, a 135 in .25 caliber.
However, the version of the 135 I was looking-for was not available in the U.S.

HATSAN MOD 135 XRD

 

https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=26322.0

W. Edwards Deming ... Quality: It is not enough to do-your-best; you must know what-to-do, and ... then ... do-your-best.
Ever-Onward ... Through the Fog ---- Fort Stockton TX 79735


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JiminPGH
(@jiminpgh)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 409
2019-11-22 13:06:20  

Very interesting and useful charts. Thanks for that. I used to have one of the IZH MP513 monsters. I was able to tune it down to useful range, using a JM R1 12 ftlb spring. I'd still love to get my hands on one of the early Gamo 1250's, and try to tune it down to 12-13 ftlb. High cc volume low power makes for a VERY sweet shooter.


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CarlosMendez
(@carlos-hombre)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 81
2019-11-22 16:34:19  
Posted by: @masshole_airgun_militia

Looking for 0.25 Caliber Springer.

1) Recommendations for a 0.25 Springer? Any 0.25 Springers to avoid. I am looking for good/great trigger, accuracy, power, and etc.

2) Why did manufacturers stop producing 0.25 Springers? (i.e. Gamo Socom, etc.)

 

 

I had a RWS 48 in 25.  Trajectory was like pitching a big rock.


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straitflite
(@straitflite)
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 92
2019-11-22 16:45:51  

https://www.straightshooters.com/ourtake/ourtakeeliminator.html    (Eliminator/Crow Magnum)

https://www.straightshooters.com/ourtake/ourtakepatriot.html    (AKA Beeman Kodiak)

https://www.straightshooters.com/ourtake/ourtakehw90.html (AKA Beeman RX2)

Of course none of these are in current production.

Another thing that I noticed is that I cannot find a single source for .25 wadcutter pellets. At shorter ranges those can be pretty devastating.

EDITED: I misspoke  about the HW90, of course it is still in production.

 

Bo


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Septicdeath
(@septicdeath)
Joined: 3 months ago
Posts: 74
2019-11-23 15:41:40  

@straitflite

Hatsan 125 vortex .25 caliber

Mine is accurate powerhouse.  Averaging 770fps. Above 

Also pictured is the Hatsan 130QE .30 caliber. I have never had a problem with it it's a great hunting rifle at 50 yards of less. Most that bought this gun probably shot it a couple of times and put it in the closet not even giving it a chance to break in. Averaging 570fps

Either of these are my go to pellet rifles for hunting small to medium game.

IMG 20191118 134918

I've considered buying a PCP but can't justify the initial expenses when these break barrels suit my hunting needs.

 


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ribbonstone
(@ribbonstone)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 267
2019-11-23 17:04:46  

Nope...can't easily find current production WC's...which really don't normally do very well at higher speeds anyway (at least they never did for me).    The various HP type pellets really need a certain velocity to act like a HP, which they can do if close enough  for velocity to still be reasonably high...but at least at long range they have some kind of "flat".


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Septicdeath
(@septicdeath)
Joined: 3 months ago
Posts: 74
2019-11-24 01:20:28  

I would like to say something about Hatsan. Everyone is always down on this company. I myself own multiple rifles from them. All have performed perfect. Hatsan USA is very helpful and responsive. They are better than a lot of big box stores guns which most are made in China. And I won't mention names. Hatsan offers well made products for a good price point. 

Unless you have used their products extensively you shouldn't offer a opinion about them.

 


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Septicdeath
(@septicdeath)
Joined: 3 months ago
Posts: 74
2019-11-24 02:53:14  
Posted by: @ekmeister

@masshole_airgun_militia

I've wondered about the .30 caliber models, and now I know a little more based on your mini-review. Because, obviously, if .25 caliber is pushing it for a springer, 30 caliber seemed like it would be way out there, in my opinion.

I'd heard the term whistlepig before, but didn't know what it meant. I just Googled it. I quickly came up with one politician and one brand of Whiskey. LOL. But, Wikipedia straightened it out for me in a jiffy. We're talking about the groundhog. Like in Caddyshack. I know about those. I was born and raised up north, where they were common. I just never heard the term.

I'd be interested in any other comments you have to make about shooting that .30 caliber Hatsan springer.

Here is my comment on the Hatsan .30 caliber springer

20191009 204818~2

 


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Septicdeath
(@septicdeath)
Joined: 3 months ago
Posts: 74
2019-11-24 03:06:36  
Posted by: @ekmeister

@talldog

If you can find one in 25 caliber, please post a link for that too. They seem to be hard to find. Admittedly, maybe my eyes are playing tricks on me. That happens quite often.

The Webleys stopped being made in Great Britain quite a few years ago. Hatsan in Turkey bought the right to the name, but it's not the same gun in all respects. In most cases, the Turkish guns don't have quite as high a level in quality. At least, that was true when they first took over, and as of a few years ago.

I really stopped watching the Turkish brand when that happened, because of the lack of quality. Maybe they fixed it! That would be great news!

A few years ago this may have been true. I can say now if you haven't tried one you probably should. More gun for your money than most other companies.


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ekmeister
(@ekmeister)
Member of Trade
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 555
2019-11-24 03:23:07  

@septicdeath

A coyote, maybe? I'm no Wildlife expert. And I haven't seen them around here where I live. I think I'm too close to the suburbs, and that they prefer to be in less populated areas.  But, I seem to remember that they do have them in Texas, for sure.

If I was in Australia, or I thought you were, I might guess a dingo. But I've only seen them in the Quigley movie.

Safe and Happy Shooting!

Ed, the Airgun TuneMeister

https://www.airguntunemeister.com/


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Septicdeath
(@septicdeath)
Joined: 3 months ago
Posts: 74
2019-11-24 15:50:07  
Posted by: @ekmeister

@septicdeath

A coyote, maybe? I'm no Wildlife expert. And I haven't seen them around here where I live. I think I'm too close to the suburbs, and that they prefer to be in less populated areas.  But, I seem to remember that they do have them in Texas, for sure.

If I was in Australia, or I thought you were, I might guess a dingo. But I've only seen them in the Quigley movie.

Yes a yote in my pasture with my horse where he shouldn't have been.


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Septicdeath
(@septicdeath)
Joined: 3 months ago
Posts: 74
2019-11-25 01:21:14  

I shot my Hatsan 125 vortex today JSB 300 Match Diabolo Exact King MKII Heavy .25 Cal, 33.95 Grains, Domed

here are the results.

728,6   39.9 fpe
722,3.  39.3 fpe
723,5   39.4 fpe
723,3.  39.4 fpe
722,9.  39.4 fpe

I also shoot regularly

H&N 25 Cal 30.86 Grains Round Nose Baracuda

H&N Field Target Trophy Domed.25 Caliber 19.91 grains


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fenderguy
(@fenderguy)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 42
2019-12-05 21:15:39  

H&N makes a  Field Target Trophy .25 Cal, 20.06 gr - just slightly heavier than the JSB  18.44 gr  22 cal pellet - less loopy ballistic trajectory than 25  gr or heavier  25 cal pellets


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MASSHOLE_AIRGUN_MILITIA
(@masshole_airgun_militia)
Joined: 2 months ago
Posts: 16
2019-12-08 20:23:09  

I want to thank everyone for contribution. I appreciate all your knowledge and experience. It will take some time for me to assimilate all the information. 

Reasons I am fixated on BBSs: 1) Pass-Through, I have neighbors and my quarries aren't always mindful enough to stand in front of a stop. 2) Pass-Through, I have neighbors and quarries that are bouncing around after a shot doesn't get the vote of confidence. 

I would like to get into PCP someday but I am not in any rush. Plus, there is so much to learn in short range shooting that translates to long range shooting that it doesn't make sense to jump into a PCP without learning the fundamentals. If you want to be a great shooter start with a Springers/Gas Ram.


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MASSHOLE_AIRGUN_MILITIA
(@masshole_airgun_militia)
Joined: 2 months ago
Posts: 16
2019-12-08 20:29:04  

Does anyone have any experience with Remington 725 VTR?

Comments about quality? Trigger?


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Gratewhitehuntr
(@gratewhitehuntr)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 466
2019-12-10 10:09:13  

Pretty sure I called Crosman to order Remington parts.

That was 4-6 years ago, no idea how the supply chain is now.

There you have it, the world according to John.


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