(I hope it's OK to post this on the forum. I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes here).
I've never bought from Krale Air Guns before, but I know a lot of you have. Thinking about making such a purchase from overseas raised a couple of very-important questions. I'm talking about these guys:
https://www.krale-schietsport.nl/en/guns/air-rifles.html
I sure wouldn't want to get a gun that was shipped from across the Atlantic only to find damage on the item that obviously wasn't caused by the shipper, but was there before they shipped it and they didn't even bother to check. And, I sure wouldn't want to buy an air gun from over there that from the very-first time I attempted to try it out, made grinding noises while cocking, wouldn't cock at all, or fire either, for that matter. That would show no operational testing at all had ever been done by them.
I'm 99.9% sure they offer a warranty, but ESPECIALLY when it comes to dealing with someone with whom you'd need to make a trans-Atlantic return, I'm going to repeat one of my own personal favorite sayings, "The best warranty is the one you never have to use" (I usually apply it to springer scopes). It's not just the cost of overseas return shipping (which is something I think you have to factor-in when making such purchases), but 'the hassle factor' and any waiting time in-transit that would be involved.
So, getting to the questions:
Has anyone ever opened a box of a purchase from Krale and found quite-obvious pre-shipping damage? I mean, even one of you--because that's one too-many in the situation I'm describing! Or, has anyone ever found that their new air gun didn't cock, fire, set the safety correctly, etc?
I know of at least one well-reputed stateside dealer who says they thoroughly test every air gun before they ship it, so there are no ugly surprises. That's obviously a real plus. So, if that matters in the USA, it SURE matters when we talk about someone whose operation is a couple of thousand miles away.
Any feedback is appreciated. And, BTW, if any of you found definite-evidence that a pre-ship inspection and test WERE performed, I'd love to hear about that, too.
Thanks!
I have gotten better customer service from Krale than any of the domestic dealers and I have bought from them several times. The only issue I have had was on a Steyr rifle I bought. It was a gun that was no longer in regular production but Garret w/Krale said he could still get it but I would have to wait for it to be built. They had it drop shipped directly from Steyr and it came setup for left hand use. Since a Steyr is easily changed to right hand and the only part needed is a different cocking handle I chose to change it myself and they sent the proper handle but they were willing to pay the round trip shipping if I couldn't fix it. All my orders have come in less that 5 days from order and in the case of the Steyr at about 60% the cost of buying it here. If you have any questions about their service use the contact info on their web site and ask them. They are good to respond and english is no problem.
I recently purchased a Walther LGV from Krale. It arrived promptly and in excellent shape - BUT - it's twangier than an un-tuned R9. Not performing as advertised - but it's costing me $85.00 American just to send it back. Guess my case wasn't made.
So do read the info on their website re: returns
I have ordered 4. A HW97, 98, two 85's. All were the best HW's I have ever seen, and perfect in everyway. I cannot say that for the amount of junk I have seen from two large vendors stateside. Which ranges from extremely drooped barrels, scratches on blueing, some which were very deep, and bad lock ups. In addition, some smeared with grease, unknown sticky splatter, hand and finger prints.
Now I am sure someone has maybe gotten a lemon from Krale? One concern, is the people at customs, I had one of the four checked and opened. No damage, but I could tell and had the customs tape. Also, my CC has always went thru no different than buying gas here at a local station.
The prices at Krale have risen, but some deals can still be had. Look at the euro beech HW35. What a deal.
Here is a good example of a R9 I just took in. I will not mention the dealer, but we know who carrys Beeman. It looks like the receiver has been squeezed in a vice. Just behind the pivot bolt on both sides. Pretty sad really. I have sent it back, and so far they have been very civilized about it. It makes me wonder, if these new HW's are being etched stateside with such logos as Air venturi Ohio on the side. Regardless many OEM manufactures have went to paint before assembly for cost. Weihrauch could be doing the same taking off the stampings. But it does pose risk to scratches in blueing etching, stencil, silk screen, whatever the method by holding the workpiece.
Long winded, but yes I like my Krale experience. Oh and ask by email, they are willing to take pictures of your rifle and send them to you. They have done that for me. Especially with wood tones.
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Prairie Farmer
Here is a good example of a R9 I just took in. I will not mention the dealer, but we know who carrys Beeman. It looks like the receiver has been squeezed in a vice. Just behind the pivot bolt on both sides. Pretty sad really. I have sent it back, and so far they have been very civilized about it. It makes me wonder, if these new HW's are being etched stateside with such logos as Air venturi Ohio on the side. Regardless many OEM manufactures have went to paint before assembly for cost. Weihrauch could be doing the same taking off the stampings. But it does pose risk to scratches in blueing etching, stencil, silk screen, whatever the method by holding the workpiece.
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Prairie Farmer
Ouch! That sux. Are they going to replace it or did you just ask for a refund?
I have a thought on what may have caused that. If they put the receiver tube in some kind of jig when they attach the stock bracket to the bottom of the tube it may not have been padded like it should have been. Whatever the cause, I'm surprised that it got thru quality control like that.
Jim,
You are probably correct. It is either happening at Weihrauch, or in Ohio. Air Venturi may be etching there name and warning on there, and may be in some sort of vice when they do it. That R9 stock does look and feel good. I am swapping it out for a AA hunter carbine, I have wanted one for awhile. And it is a complete shot in the dark ordering HW's from stateside vendors. I will just order from Krale again if I need any more, as long as this option lasts. I won't order from the place out west after a bad deal on a defective rifle. You would think places would take 30 seconds to look something over.
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Jason Garvin
Jim,
You are probably correct. It is either happening at Weihrauch, or in Ohio. Air Venturi may be etching there name and warning on there, and may be in some sort of vice when they do it. That R9 stock does look and feel good. I am swapping it out for a AA hunter carbine, I have wanted one for awhile. And it is a complete shot in the dark ordering HW's from stateside vendors. I will just order from Krale again if I need any more, as long as this option lasts. I won't order from the place out west after a bad deal on a defective rifle. You would think places would take 30 seconds to look something over.
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Jason Garvin
I totally agree. It wouldn't cost them a thing to check a product before sending it out. In some cases it could even save them money by way of not having to do a return on something defective that never should have been shipped to begin with.
In regard to the etching/stamping, I have a feeling that may be done at the factory. I've read some reports on some of the British forums about the "safety warning" on some of the HWs and other brands available there as well. Wherever it's done, I wish they'd do it before the metal is blued, like the older stamped lettering was. At least that way it wouldn't stand out like a sore thumb.
Hope you have better luck with the AA Hunter Carbine. Look forward to your report on it.
I had a problem with a Walther LGV master pro I bought from them.
When I first got the gun the barrel was caked full of black debris, I spent an hour cleaning most but not all came out. Keep in mind this was a new gun I was chomping at the bit to shot, so I shot it and it shot very good. After a few more attempts to get the barrel clean and closer inspection I could see the rifling was very rough and looked pitted. It was so rough when pulling a patch through the barrel I could FEEL it. Now here's where the problem comes in, the dang thing shot lights out with few exceptions. I started to keep it based on how it shot, how many times have people ask that question after you say the barrel looks rough.
The bottom line is I could not live with a barrel that looks like it was unfinished. Walther just did not complete the process after cutting the rifling, Walther missed a few steps. Krale stepped up I have a new tested barrel that shoots as good as it looks, a bit better than the original. Keep in mind for me to ship the gun back FEDEX wanted to charge me $314.00.
I sent my barrel back for them to inspect and test, after it was determined to be defective they took a barrel off a gun they tested and sent it to me. This all started on 2-11-18 after 27 emails me taking pics of the barrel and shooting groups at 22 yards for them to see how it shot. This was a long process that worked out in the end to my satisfaction. I fully understand them wanting proof the barrel was defective but it was hard for me to jump through as many hoops as I did.
My experiences with them have been abysmal. When I received my HW100 there was a small scratch on the receiver and the fill probe was missing from the box. There is literally a cut out space within the box for the fill probe and it was empty. Took them more than six weeks to send me one. Had a new rifle and couldn't even fill it with air. My opinion is they don't even open the box before shipping. Factor in poor attention to detail and poor customer service when you are calculating your final cost.
They don’t inspect guns before they ship. They are way too big for that. They sell a ton of stuff. Alot of firearms. I had to return a cheap pistol once..it turned out ok. I have placed over 20 orders with them. Many of them over $1500 or even $2000+
I love that place! That’s probably where I will buy my Huben
its a great place to get rare guns...some not offered in the US. ...and sometimes you can save a lot on certain models. My last order was a Field Target Boss...super bad ass gun..and about $1000 less than they want for one in the US.
They don’t inspect guns before they ship. They are way too big for that. They sell a ton of stuff. Alot of firearms. I had to return a cheap pistol once..it turned out ok. I have placed over 20 orders with them. Many of them over $1500 or even $2000+
I'm definitely getting an impression here, and it's one I hoped I wouldn't get. To be clear, this isn't aimed only at your post. I've been following the entire thread and have been reading all the posts.
I was HOPING to hear that a company who shipped to consumers overseas would go the extra distance to assure a consumer wouldn't get something that needed shipped back to waaayyyyyyyyyy over there, with the time and expense involved to make it right. But, that doesn't seem to be the case. I've read of some good experiences, and some bad experiences. In other words, it appears to be 'a mixed bag', much like what someone gets who buys from 'vendor x' in this country or in the same town. It's not reassuring to me at all.
As for your comment that, "they don't inspect guns before they ship. They are way too big for that", I hope I never adopt that posture as my personal axiom in my humble air gun tuning business. I wouldn't be able to look at myself in the mirror--and that's literal.
Sure, mistakes happen. I've made some. But, I don't set myself up to make them by design or blatant oversight. They're the exception rather than the rule. And, I try to make them right if they occur. That's the way businesses used to be run, and I'm happy to say that I still run into some of them!
I want to give an example of a place where I see the opposite attitude displayed of what you mention, and believe me I don't get a nickel out of making these statements:
ARH/Air Rifle Headquarters/James Maccari sells A LOT of custom-made air gun tuning parts and other supplies (sometimes custom-made stocks, too). I've been buying those things from him for more than 20 years. Not once in all that time can I remember getting the wrong parts in the package, the wrong number of parts (as in a shortage, that is), or an occasion where he said something he sold would fit an air gun I was working on that didn't. He's never left me high and dry.
Maybe that's 'easy' when I buy big items, but sometimes I buy small screws or springs, and those are always in the package, too. As an example, if you buy one of his Apex muzzle brakes, it comes with two very-short, small-diameter (8-32) screws that would be easy to lose. That would be bad--they're not on the shelves of most small-town hardware stores. So, when I get one of those brakes, I've found that I can trust it will include the 2 tiny screws tied-up in a baggie, with the baggie taped to the brake so they won't get lost. Now, maybe I'm forgetting a time where something wasn't right, but that's OK. I say it that way because I know he runs the kind of outfit whereby he would immediately make it right, and on his dime.
I might still buy from Krale, or maybe not. I'm still mulling this whole thing over, and more posts will probably be made. I want to consider those too as part of the whole, accurate picture. I was posting my questions--not for myself--but for any 'might-become tuning customers of mine' who wonder if they're taking a chance if they buy from Krale, or, instead, would find it very-rare indeed for there to be a problem. Again, but saying it another way this time, I don't think the latter is the case. It sounds like it can happen there probably about as easily as it might happen at the next place.
My thanks to everyone for your replies. And, in no way do I mean to cause offense. I just put my conclusions--so far--into plain English so no one had to read between the lines of what it sounds like to me. Thanks again.
One thing that I did not mention about Krale. If you are not satisfied with your purchase, you can return it and they will pay the shipping back, in addition if you pay with your credit card, you can just tell your credit card company what happened and they will refund your money as well.
I would say that with all the great benefits of ordering a gun from Krale...rare models...and lower prices... it is worth the risk.
But that is just my opinion. I buy a lot of air guns, but someone who just has a few and wants to be a little more careful with their money, maybe you should think twice about ordering from overseas.
I sure wish I could get them to send me some firearms. They have some stuff that is so awesome and for even one third the price in America. .... one-time the guy offered to send me one, but when I mentioned FFL and all that he stopped emailing me back. My uncle is a big gun dealer, so I may try it again with his FFL someday.
https://www.krale-schietsport.nl/en/anschutz-msr-rx22-competition.html
And
https://www.krale-schietsport.nl/en/anschutz-1416d-hb-sh-color-thumbhole.html
Missed these but WOW!!!!
One thing that I did not mention about Krale. If you are not satisfied with your purchase, you can return it and they will pay the shipping back, in addition if you pay with your credit card, you can just tell your credit card company what happened and they will refund your money as well...
Thanks for posting the first part of that, regarding them paying for returns, because that wasn't obvious to me based on the posts I've read here so far.
As to a credit card company refunding my money if I'm not satisfied, I know they usually say that in their terms and conditions section, but in my experience so far, it's not necessarily a done deal. They usually say such refunds are based on what they determine 'after they've completed an investigation', and those don't always come out in a customer's favor. In other words, one such problem I had with a totally different type of purchase some years ago that required such an investigation was declined, and when I asked why, they didn't offer any real explanation. They just said my claim wasn't justified, and they didn't refund me anything. 'Caveat emptor' still seems to be the rule of the day.
I recently purchased a Walther LGV from Krale. It arrived promptly and in excellent shape - BUT - it's twangier than an un-tuned R9. Not performing as advertised - but it's costing me $85.00 American just to send it back. Guess my case wasn't made.
So do read the info on their website re: returns
if you have problems with a new LGV you would not be happy with any airgun
One thing that I did not mention about Krale. If you are not satisfied with your purchase, you can return it and they will pay the shipping back, in addition if you pay with your credit card, you can just tell your credit card company what happened and they will refund your money as well.
I would say that with all the great benefits of ordering a gun from Krale...rare models...and lower prices... it is worth the risk.
But that is just my opinion. I buy a lot of air guns, but someone who just has a few and wants to be a little more careful with their money, maybe you should think twice about ordering from overseas.
I sure wish I could get them to send me some firearms. They have some stuff that is so awesome and for even one third the price in America. .... one-time the guy offered to send me one, but when I mentioned FFL and all that he stopped emailing me back. My uncle is a big gun dealer, so I may try it again with his FFL someday.
https://www.krale-schietsport.nl/en/anschutz-msr-rx22-competition.html
And
https://www.krale-schietsport.nl/en/anschutz-1416d-hb-sh-color-thumbhole.html
Missed these but WOW!!!!
They didn't offer to pay my shipping back. I was sent a link to UPS and printed a $85.00 call tag. I'm sure that's a better deal than usual to ship to the EU - but that does have to be considered if you aren't happy with what you get. Not the same as free return shipping from a stateside dealer.
This is not about me ragging on Krale - if that rifle had performed as advertised and how I expected, I would be singing their praises for sure, as I did get the gun unbelievably fast.
As it states on there website, the customer is responsible for return shipping.
I recently purchased a Walther LGV from Krale. It arrived promptly and in excellent shape - BUT - it's twangier than an un-tuned R9. Not performing as advertised - but it's costing me $85.00 American just to send it back. Guess my case wasn't made.
So do read the info on their website re: returns
if you have problems with a new LGV you would not be happy with any airgun
Don't remember the last line being in my original reply, but let me be clear the gun was exceedingly twangy, I was expecting smoother out of the box, and I don't consider those unreasonable expectations. I don't return new guns willy nilly, but I don't like to except sub standard.
I just wish I'd received a good one.
I recently purchased a Walther LGV from Krale. It arrived promptly and in excellent shape - BUT - it's twangier than an un-tuned R9...
That's 'interesting' information about the twang in the LGV. In that case Krale can't be held accountable, since they only sell the rifles, they don't design and/or build them.
Here's what it says on the ***depot site about at least one model of the LGV:
"Smooth: You know what the other springers are like once you pull the trigger: twangy, buzzy vibrations run thru your arm and cheek. Those bad vibrations will be a distant memory when you shoot your LGV Challenger Ultra. That's right, you pull the trigger, and there's no twang or buzz going through you".
Is the Ultra version a different one that the standard model, so that's the reason for the twang? I haven't held or shot a Walther springer since I worked on an LG 55 some years ago. I don't remember much in the way of twang problems with that one, but maybe my memory is failing me.
It's not that unusual at all for a factory-built springer to have some substantial twang. It often takes installing some custom-made spring guides to take care of it.
To be fair, I need to add that the Krale site doesn't have that text about their being no twang in the rifle, at least not anywhere I could find. I found it listed on the vendor's site, as if it was an in-house review statement. Obtaining a Walther LGV isn't on my to-do list, so it really doesn't affect me. I just thought that you or someone else might be interested in reading what it said there.
I recently purchased a Walther LGV from Krale. It arrived promptly and in excellent shape - BUT - it's twangier than an un-tuned R9...
That's 'interesting' information about the twang in the LGV. In that case Krale can't be held accountable, since they only sell the rifles, they don't design and/or build them.
Here's what it says on the ***depot site about at least one model of the LGV:
"Smooth: You know what the other springers are like once you pull the trigger: twangy, buzzy vibrations run thru your arm and cheek. Those bad vibrations will be a distant memory when you shoot your LGV Challenger Ultra. That's right, you pull the trigger, and there's no twang or buzz going through you".
Is the Ultra version a different one that the standard model, so that's the reason for the twang? I haven't held or shot a Walther springer since I worked on an LG 55 some years ago. I don't remember much in the way of twang problems with that one, but maybe my memory is failing me.
It's not that unusual at all for a factory-built springer to have some substantial twang. It often takes installing some custom-made spring guides to take care of it.
To be fair, I need to add that the Krale site doesn't have that text about their being no twang in the rifle, at least not anywhere I could find. I found it listed on the vendor's site, as if it was an in-house review statement. Obtaining a Walther LGV isn't on my to-do list, so it really doesn't affect me. I just thought that you or someone else might be interested in reading what it said there.
You need to click on the READ MORE section on the website -
"Marksmen will discover totally new qualities in a break-barrel rifle: never has shooting been so quiet and free of vibrations, and increased accuracy is the reward."
Quotations by me.
Here's a link to the model I purchased. I've been intrigued about this model for awhile, as the piston is like the one in a TX, but no sliding compression tube -
https://www.krale-schietsport.nl/en/walther-lgv-challenger-9258.html
Apparently I purchased the last one in stock
