I flat out love the original Baikal 60/61 guns. I've owned several over the years, and currently own a steel receiver 61 repeater. (Still seeking a steel receiver single shot 60.) The later plastic-receiver 60/61 guns are actually just as good.
I understand that this new offer is a Chi-clone, but I'm still excited to see this fantastic platform back on the market. If you've never had the pleasure of shooting one of these, you have missed something special. They are diminutive low-powered spring rifles, but PERFECT for short-range basement target work.
Thinking HARD about pre-ordering one of these. Talk me out of it, please!
I’m totally with you Jim! I’m excited about this rifle. I have always wanted one of the IZH but just never did go in. Different interests that pulled me towards other air rifles I guess.
Now I at a different place with my airgun hobby and I think that I could really appreciate this new offering especially thinking about my youngest son (6) Sean. I think this would be a good fit for him to be able to operate it by himself. The 25# cocking effort might give him trouble? Not sure on that but there is one sure fire way to find out....
PRE-ORDER!!!
Im going to give it a day to sink in but I think this will be my next airgun purchase. Thanks so much for posting this. I’ll jump in. $130 isn’t chump change but it’s not the end of the world for me either should the platform be a dud. I am willing to risk it for the moment.....
I could really appreciate this new offering especially thinking about my youngest son (6) Sean. I think this would be a good fit for him to be able to operate it by himself. The 25# cocking effort might give him trouble? Not sure on that but there is one sure fire way to find out....
PRE-ORDER!!!
Perfect gun for a youngster. A few years ago my neighbor's kid was around 6-7, and he asked me what would be a good gun for his kid. I loaned him my 61. Cocking effort is not a problem, due to the long arc. GREAT gun for a learner!
I read about these in the PA blog a couple days ago. Like Brett, I missed out on the IZH60/61 when they were available. And for pretty much the same reason, too many other airguns that caught my eye at the time, lol. So I'm glad to see something like this become available.
Sounds like the trigger may have some good adjustment possibilities. And the adjustable butt pad is a nice addition. So is the accessory rail on the bottom of the forearm. And according to the PA blog, it's supposed to come with a muzzle piece that has a dovetail for use with a target style front sight. So overall, it may be a better, upgraded, version of the IZH61. But I do wish it was available in a single shot version like the IZH60.
I'll be keeping an eye on this one. And I do have an old Daisy diopter sight waiting for something to come along ?. But I don't like being a "beta tester" so I'll patiently wait and see what others (like you & Brett, lol) have to say after they've played with one.
Now that is really interesting. I wouldn't have thought that Russia and China would have a product exchange program of any sort (if that's what one would call it), unless this is a direct reverse engineering thing by the Chinese.
I love my Baikals!! I have two polymer reciever MP60's, one steel MP60 and a polymer MP61. They all shoot great!! I also have in my Baikal collection a 46M, MP532, MP514K, 651K, and two 53M's.
Personally, I think I'll hold off on this new offering until I see some reviews on it. Did you click on the puke green option?
Wonder if they'll have a single shot version as well.
Here's one of my totally pimped out MP60's (there's a laser in the front sight hood)
Aren't they wonderful? Folks just don't know. I did pre-order... just to find out if these things are really still available. Like I said, I've owned quite a few of the Russian-built originals, so we will see.
I have had a couple of those over the years and they are great guns. One nice sunny day a few years ago I was setting on the front porch shooting at those pesky bore bees with my 60, when my good friend Joe in WV, pulled up and sat down with me. A bore bee was hovering around and I said watch this and shot the bee out of the air. The trick is wait till they stop. Joe could't believe it though and told that story for years. Sadly Joe passed away a few years ago, but this post brought back good memories for me.
This is why I'm never letting go of any of mine. Seeing the progression of changes, Baikal is going cheaper and cheaper. Even my buddies in Russia that I buy parts from agree.
Thanks for that link on the piston mod. Did you glue the nickel on, or just toss it in there? What glue, if so?
It goes inside the #11 piston cylinder followed by (Sandwich betteen) #12. mainspring guide to just add weight to the piston cylinder, added mass to increase forward momentum. The added thickness of the nickel also add a bit more compressed force to the mainsprings inertia.
I bought a bunch of steel receiver IZH 60 guns that had been returned to Big Bear (I think that was the importer) back about 20 years ago. They were in a big wooden crate from Russia. I took them apart, found what pieces were broken, and made as many complete guns as I could. I sold a few to friends and sold the rest on the Yellow. I kept two for my girls to learn to shoot with. I landed up selling those too. I recently had the opportunity to buy one back from one of my friends so I have one again. They are fun shooting little guns. They are the best spring gun I know of to teach kids how to shoot with. The cocking and loading are separated so that no fingers get smashed. The pellets are loaded into a little bolt action receiver after the gun is cocked. I tried all kinds of sight arrangements with my kids. I tried a scope, a red dot, open sights, aperture rear and post and apertures front and back. Apertures front and back was the one that clicked with my two girls. With that sighting system they immediately starting rolling cans.
Well, after pre-ordering back in January, my AirVenturi TR5 arrived today. Aside from the stock, there are some functional differences from my steel-receiver 61. First off, there is a safety, but it doesn't set automatically. Next, the cocking lever doesn't have a release. It appears to be a friction fit of the plastic handle over a mushroom stud. Not sure how this bodes for longevity. [edit: its actually steel on steel. You release the lever by pulling up slightly. My bad for not reading the manual.] Also, you cannot release the bolt with the cocking handle closed, meaning you cannot remove an empty magazine without recocking. Also, it has an anti-beartrap of some sort. Once you open the cocking handle, you can't close it unless you go full swing. It looks like the magazines (it comes with two) are slightly different from the 61. They are slightly longer, and have two tabs on the bottom, where the 61 has only 1. The magazine spring is a larger diameter, the full width of the magazine slot, not like the 61, which has a small spring only at the rear of the magazine slot. Using a 61 magazine in a TR5 may load the spring eccentrically, and might cause jamming. I'm not gonna try.
The trigger appears to be a multi-lever affair, adjustable for sear engagement, pull weight, and plastic blade position on the steel trigger post. Nice!
Functionally, it feels a lot like my 61. Too early to tell about accuracy. If I get a chance, I'll post some comparison pictures tomorrow.
Well, after pre-ordering back in January, my AirVenturi TR5 arrived today. Aside from the stock, there are some functional differences from my steel-receiver 61. First off, there is a safety, but it doesn't set automatically. Next, the cocking lever doesn't have a release. It appears to be a friction fit of the plastic handle over a mushroom stud. Not sure how this bodes for longevity. [edit: its actually steel on steel. You release the lever by pulling up slightly. My bad for not reading the manual.] Also, you cannot release the bolt with the cocking handle closed, meaning you cannot remove an empty magazine without recocking. Also, it has an anti-beartrap of some sort. Once you open the cocking handle, you can't close it unless you go full swing. It looks like the magazines (it comes with two) are slightly different from the 61. They are slightly longer, and have two tabs on the bottom, where the 61 has only 1. The magazine spring is a larger diameter, the full width of the magazine slot, not like the 61, which has a small spring only at the rear of the magazine slot. Using a 61 magazine in a TR5 may load the spring eccentrically, and might cause jamming. I'm not gonna try.
The trigger appears to be a multi-lever affair, adjustable for sear engagement, pull weight, and plastic blade position on the steel trigger post. Nice!
Functionally, it feels a lot like my 61. Too early to tell about accuracy. If I get a chance, I'll post some comparison pictures tomorrow.
What timing!!!
Just this morning I was going to check and see if those were in stock, and here you hand me a first look!!
As for the anti bear trap, the MP60/61's can not be cocked even one click without going to full cock.
Now that I've read your first impression, I think I'll hold off on ordering one. I already have a steel 60, two 2nd gen 60's and a 3rd gen 61 (with the "lift-off" cocking handle).
In fact, I'm thinking of selling my MP651K and MP514.
Hey Jim, any time to get some groupings from your new plinker?
I held off off on pretty ordering but I have been watching the availability. Now that you have one in hand, do you feel it’s worth the $130? What is your take on it being a good “youth” shooter?
Ill have ave to check on the availability of extra clips for it before I buy... I bought one of the SIG Sauer M17 CO2 pistols and there are no extra magazines available from the vendor. I WON’T be making that mistake again.
Thanks, and I look forward to hearing more on your experiences with this shooter!
First up would be accuracy, say out to 20 yards. How well is it grouping and with what pellets? I’m not expecting same hole accuracy (that would be nice) but inside an inch would be acceptable to me.
It sounds like it has an adjustable trigger? Is it a light pull and does it have a clean break? At least a predictable break?
I'm thinking of this for my 6 year old son. How is it to cock and load?
Also, what about the overall feel of the gun? Does it feel like a plastic fantastic or does it have a more sturdy/quality feel?
I know that’s kind of vague but I don’t want to end up purchasing a “disposable” gun. I’m looking for something to last for $130 not just make it through a couple seasons and end up on the bench or as a parts gun. I know we can’t predict how well it will hold up over time but a lot of times we can get a good impression if something will last or not.
Anything else that you think of or notice (good or bad) would be appreciated.
I'm just out of unboxing. But it feels sturdy. The extendable stock has some slop in it, but not bad and it feels strong. It is meant as a replacement for an Umarex embark SAR rifle for my 8 year old.
The trigger is adjustable. I actually just took out the grub screw for trigger weight and turned in the sear engagement a turn. Going to let that settle for a bit.
Working on getting a scope mounted. Tons of droop and no room for a droop mount. So going to shim one and see.
Also before I look at any accuracy I'll tear it down and clean it and relube with krytox, because why not. It's got a fairly harsh shot cycle out of the box, but what Springer doesn't?
You touched on something I thought about afterwards.... mounting a scope.
Ill be be curious to see how the rifle is after the new owners have time with them and tweak them. I hope that it works well for you and your 8 year old .
If you are getting 1/2" at 20 yards I would say that is great for that gun and I wouldn't expect it to have the accuracy of the Russian counterpart which wasn't the greatest for precision target shooting either but good for all day plinking and fun.
I would suggest trying JSB and Air Arms Falcon counterparts in 7.33gr, 7.89gr and 8.44gr.
RWS R10 and Meisterkugelns should do well too.
Crosman brand pellets don't shoot consistently well enough in all guns but only some if you are lucky or have a Lothar Walther or Weihrauch or BSA or CZ or Feinwerkbau or Steyr barrels or in perhaps fifty fifty cases, Crosman barrels.
1/2 inch then 2 inch. I've tried bipod, Caldwell tack driver, babying with an atrtilary hold...all of them I can get 1/2" at 20 yds, then it opens up to 2". I stopped changing pellets, going to burn through 500 jsb and see where we are then.
Even the cheap Beeman Chinese Hollow Points may shoot well may be worth a try and the Gamo Match wadcutters were surprisingly accurate in some of my "no hope" cheap guns I had before.
All good. There is something I'm missing. The last real variable is the scope. And the barrel is 18". I think i should take it down to 10 or so, just so it pokes out of the plastic. I'm just going to pump pellets through it and see if anything happens.
Fwiw, the Piston seal was perfect, and lubed lightly from the factory. I cleaned and polished all metal and reinstalled with a couple shims and washers.
I've tried boxed CPL and cph, jsb, av wadcutters, rws wadcutters, crosman hollow points, and some crow mags. The CPL and jsb are close but get this - the 7.9 CPL goes at 480, the jsb 8.44 is 508. The bright side is speed is super repeatable. +- 2 fps. So that's why I'm thinking just shoot for a bit and see what happens.
Uhhh....I wouldn't go cutting the barrel down. Why would you, in a day when people are putting longer barrels on their 13xx's to GAIN fps? Also, parts are not yet available (as far as we know) so there's no going back. All shortening will do is lessen your fps and there goes the accuracy (such as it is) as well.
I'd give it some time to settle in. At least a tin's worth of pellets. And remember, the MP60/61's were only meant to be 10m rifles anyway.
GAs guns benefit from longer barrels cuz it give the gas charge more time to act on the pellet
springers give one huge thump to the pellet to start it moving, after that, unnecesary barrel length just adds drag to the pellet and slows it down......
I've tried boxed CPL and cph, jsb, av wadcutters, rws wadcutters, crosman hollow points, and some crow mags. The CPL and jsb are close but get this - the 7.9 CPL goes at 480, the jsb 8.44 is 508. The bright side is speed is super repeatable. +- 2 fps. So that's why I'm thinking just shoot for a bit and see what happens.
That's my plan as well, just shoot the thing for a while at suspended beercans before putting it over a chrony or shooting paper for groups.
So far, I like it a lot. I've figured out how to remove a spent clip without fully cocking, but it takes a little fiddling with the bolt follower and cocking arm.
It doesn't have quite the same solid feel as my well-worn steel-breech IZH61, but it does seem to be a pretty close approximation, and in my opinion, well worth the price. As many have said, this platform is a perfect learner gun for youngsters, and overall I'm glad that someone is making them again.
Spent a little time tonight shooting my new TF-5 along side my well-worn steel-breech IZH61. They are the same, but they are very different. The Izzy cocks like winding a watch, while the TF-5 cocks like a roller coaster on the up-grade. But they both feel pretty much the same in firing behavior, which I find a little puzzling, since one is brand new and the other is probably 30 years old.
I found that the trigger seems to be an exact copy of the early IZH multi-lever, and I was able to get my TF-5 to a very predictable light release, almost as good as the izzy. ALMOST.
That's the thing about this gun. Its almost as good as the one it cloned. But for someone who never had one of the originals, they would never know. It really is that close to the original.
If you are one of those folks who missed the boat on the "real" IZH 61, this gun is as close as you'll get. And, they're cheap! As an avowed disciple of all things IZH, I can say this gun is a good buy.
I'm getting 510fps with a CPL 7.9. haven't tested accuracy yet.
Attached is how I mounted the scope, a bugbuster with an offset mount. Shimmed the rear .015" to get it on paper at 10yds.
Also a nice surprise. Look what is under the factory front sight!
THAT is very interesting. Based on your picture of front-end dovetails, I just ordered a globe sight from PA. (I have a few 10M rear sights to play with.) Let's see what this baby can do with match sights!
Some chrony numbers from "My little Combro," RWS Basic 7.0g - 550 fps ave. RWS Meister 8.2g - 505 ave. I too have experienced remarkable shot-to-shot consistency, with variations around 2-5 fps, which is quite unexpected from a brand-new gun.
I took off the factory sights and put a Diana hooded tapered post on the front dovetails, and a Hungarian(?) polymer rear match sight. Looks and shoots great. Still too early in the run-in to test for accuracy*, but it hits where I aim in the basement at 7 yds.
*I've found than with a new gun, it takes at least a full tin of pellets for two important things to happen: 1, the gun wears in and settles down, and equally important 2, I as the shooter become familiar enough with the gun to know exactly what to expect when I pull the trigger. Both of these take time and patience.
Question; are the magazines for the clone compatible with the izzy 61? If so, I might want to pick up a couple of spares.
12 year old grandson loves the IZH 61. But I'm afraid he may lose the magazine somehow.
No, they are not. I tried it, and had to push a pellet back with an 1/8" brass rod. DON'T try this! I haven't tried the backwards compatibility using the TR-5 mag in the 61, but based on my initial experiment, I am unlikely to make an attempt.
With my 61, I have marked my magazines with fluorescent nail polish so that I can see when there are no more shots to take, when the magazine shows orange, time to reload. It prevents the possibility of a dry fire.
I did the same thing with the new TR-5, but I used fluorescent green nail polish, (It helps sometimes when you have daughters!) To make sure I don't confuse clips and guns, I put a small green dot sticker on the TR-5, and a small orange dot sticker on the Izzy.
Question; are the magazines for the clone compatible with the izzy 61? If so, I might want to pick up a couple of spares.
12 year old grandson loves the IZH 61. But I'm afraid he may lose the magazine somehow.
No, they are not. I tried it, and had to push a pellet back with an 1/8" brass rod. DON'T try this! I haven't tried the backwards compatibility using the TR-5 mag in the 61, but based on my initial experiment, I am unlikely to make an attempt.
With my 61, I have marked my magazines with fluorescent nail polish so that I can see when there are no more shots to take, when the magazine shows orange, time to reload. It prevents the possibility of a dry fire.
I did the same thing with the new TR-5, but I used fluorescent green nail polish, (It helps sometimes when you have daughters!) To make sure I don't confuse clips and guns, I put a small green dot sticker on the TR-5, and a small orange dot sticker on the Izzy.
Standard 61 mags will jam in the TR5. That is correct. Removing a very small amount of material from the bottom of the 61 mags will allow them to operate in the TR5 without issue and still run in the 61. PA should have mags that will work in the TR5, in stock soon.
