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Breeze
(@breeze)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 29
August 10, 2020 17:18:19  

I bought a DonnyFL Koi in .177/.22  is it odd that it works perfectly on a Huntsman Regal .22 But not on a brand new .177 Revere.

 


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Breeze
(@breeze)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 29
August 10, 2020 18:19:42  

Is like using a .25 ldc on a .22! 

On the .177 to much air escapes in the .22 hole, so I don't see how it will make it quiet . 


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Gratewhitehuntr
(@gratewhitehuntr)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 884
August 11, 2020 08:37:03  

Wow that Revere is a fancy gun! Very nice!

EDIT, the replies following mine suggest that I'm COMPLETELY off base, and I deleted most of this post.

 

On CO2 , I've found that adjusting the pressure changed performance. Oddly enough, more pressure made the unit quieter, maybe to to turbulence?

Using slip-fit units to investigate ideal distance from muzzle to blast baffle, adjusting distance from the end of the barrel to the "blast baffle" was a factor, but threaded units are without that ability.

 

I'm very interested to learn from anyone who has a better answer, since this topic is a bit trade-secret, black magic, and taboo.


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pluric
(@pluric)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 749
August 11, 2020 08:49:33  

That is odd. They even recommend using the next caliber size up on a moderator. I've had to drill two Donny moderators out when matching the same caliber due to clipping. On my 10 meter guns I'm using a .25 moderator on a .177 gun with excellent results in noise reduction. 


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Dave Cole
(@airgunsoftulsa)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 82
August 11, 2020 08:49:55  

@breeze

That's odd.

I have a NC moderator in .25 that is meant for my Taipan and I'm using on my .177 FX WC. The only noise I hear when firing my WC is the hammer and spring mechanical noise though the gun was never loud to begin with. 

If it's the noise of the pellet discharge through the moderator, have someone stand off to the side of the gun when firing both with and without the moderator. The noise you hear when firing the gun is always different that what is heard when not behind the muzzle. 

 


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Gratewhitehuntr
(@gratewhitehuntr)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 884
August 11, 2020 09:02:11  
Posted by: @pluric

They even recommend using the next caliber size up on a moderator.

Wow, this is what I find odd.

Well, if there is something useful in my post, so be it. If not, whatever (nevermind, deleted)

I was throwing stuff out there based on wins and fails, and proper application of  the fail.

Making these for airguns is an interesting way to examine the behavior of different designs, and get experience, then destroy it before falling into the dreaded grey area. Sorry, no pics!

Speaking of grey area,  are we allowed to talk about this now? Pretty sure I saw a Donnie FL advert on the page (this is the only airgun forum I frequent)

 

Posted by: @airgunsoftulsa

ator in .25 that is meant for my Taipan and I'm using on my .177 FX WC.

That is impressive. Who is NC again? Is that a model, a maker?


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Dave Cole
(@airgunsoftulsa)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 82
August 11, 2020 10:55:21  

@gratewhitehuntr

Neil Clague


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Gratewhitehuntr
(@gratewhitehuntr)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 884
August 11, 2020 11:01:03  
Posted by: @airgunsoftulsa

@gratewhitehuntr

Neil Clague

Oh, I have one of those. Everyone who's ever shot the .22 PCP wearing it, gets the impression that there was a misfire.

I'm not keen on looking at the guts of other people's designs, but I did, and the internal construction is COMPLETELY different, when compared to a monocore aka monobaffle.

FWIW, I've not copied the design, but it would be easier.

Another one I purchased has the perforated tube surrounded by packing, again, a different design from monocore.

Those are the only 2 I have, which were made by someone else, and the NC is better by far.

 

Edit for clarity, to make sure it looks like monocore and monobaffle are the same.

SECOND EDIT, I have a 3rd made by someone else which came with the rifle, but it looks like a cross between a candle, a donkey dong, and wasted delrin.


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marflow
(@marflow)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 944
August 11, 2020 16:11:58  

so how fast are you shooting the Daystates in .177 at 

it could be the FPS is over powering the LDC's ability to quiet the rifle or the pellet is making the noise after exit 


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Gratewhitehuntr
(@gratewhitehuntr)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 884
August 14, 2020 08:30:50  

I thought about this at some length (while running the leaf blower)  WHY would a maker suggest going up one size over bore diameter?

 

The answer had been presented while reading comments last week about shotgun Poly Choke devices.

Some of the Poly Chokes were PC installs (send the barrel off) and others were local gunsmith, or ANYONE with a lathe.

There was some chatter about shortening the barrel, and reinstalling. It never fails that there's a guy (that guy) who doesn't understand how small deviations from the line of bore will have large effects downrange.

" YoU CoUlD jUsT uSe A DiE oN ThE bArReL!"

Well that sounds fine, if you'd like to change your POI by a foot or more, in any random direction. THAT is what got Poly Chokes a bad name.

 

Then I remembered my own complaints about the way a parting tool was employed on a Benji Titan, closing the bore substantially, and requiring the end to be lopped off and a new crown made.

Who says that the average airgun barrel had the muzzle device threads produced concentric to the bore? The maker has no way to be sure, without inspecting each and every barrel, and it's safer and easier for everyone if the customer orders a LDC one size larger than the bore.

 

I could be wrong, but that's what I came up with.

Has anyone been running a monocore type one size over bore? How does it perform?

If enough people answer, I suspect we'll build a consensus that packed varieties do better when oversized, than monocore.


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Arkmaker
(@arkmaker)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 105
August 14, 2020 22:10:02  

@gratewhitehuntr

Sorry for off target.... But

I think I might have that Titan and I got it from you a few years back! It's killer accurate with RWS Super H Points of all things.... Not the highest quality but one of my favorites. A keeper that I almost sold at one point. 

I tried my hand at making moderators for a while. Just to much room for error and not the right equipment. Then there was the competition! You guys did a great job while mine were not so great. I can make a pretty good muzzle break though. Or could before I sold my machines.


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Gratewhitehuntr
(@gratewhitehuntr)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 884
August 15, 2020 03:52:46  
Posted by: @arkmaker

@gratewhitehuntr

Sorry for off target.... But and...

As much as I'd appreciate your compliments if they were accurate, they are in fact misplaced. Thank you anyway 😉

That Titan is still in my possession, and I've never sold, or even shared, a single LDC, because... reasons... all with threaded muzzles.

Hopefully the PA blog post written by Tom Gaylord is permissible https://www.pyramydair.com/article/Airgun_silencers_What_s_the_big_deal_August_2006/32

Granted, this is 14 years old, and action by the ATF lacking, but firearm law has not changed sufficiently to satiate my perception of risk. They have been known to reverse positions without warning, at he same time, they are remiss to drag every example into court, fearing dissent. (Cali mag ban overturn anyone?)

Posted by: @arkmaker

I can make a pretty good muzzle break though.

Therein lies the problem. I was just working on a aluminum brake (not break) for my <7Lbs AR10 project, and it's a short path to "... or could be modified to fit..." particularly when you're starting with stock, and inside threading. Yes yes, anyone with a set of taps... but lathes and mills change the dynamic, as does my intent to apply for a Type 7 FFL sometime in 2021.

Posted by: @arkmaker

I tried my hand at making moderators for a while. Just to much room for error and not the right equipment. Then there was the competition! You guys did a great job while mine were not so great.

I had the idea to shorten springer barrels, and sleeve them with a shroud of sorts, modifying the OD only slightly, while being strong enough to cock without damage. I never liked the fart can on the muzzle, or increase in OAL, and my device was called the "DLC, or Down Low Contraption" taking from the urban slang "keep it on the down low" as in secret.  You steal my name, I will find you!

 

epic redaction, because, reasons

 


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Arkmaker
(@arkmaker)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 105
August 15, 2020 06:27:41  

@gratewhitehuntr

Looking at my post again, I should have said Crosman Titan GP.. This one shoots about 650 fps with 14.3 grain pellets. Smooth shooter and yes I bought it from you. Probably just not be the one your talking about. 

Anyway, my point was Thank you. It was a great deal and I've enjoyed it emensly over the years. ( and no, just the stock break, no idc 😉

Thanks again. No offense meant by my post.

Rich


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Arkmaker
(@arkmaker)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 105
August 15, 2020 06:38:43  

@gratewhitehuntr

I'm sorry. It was not you I bought it from, but rather NC. For some reason, I was thinking you were him? I'm straight now and apologize for the confusion.

Looking at my post again, I should have said Crosman Titan GP.. This one shoots about 650 fps with 14.3 grain pellets. Smooth shooter and yes I bought it NC, NOT the same Titan your talking about. 

Anyway, my point was Thank you to NC who I thought was you for some reason. It was a great deal and I've enjoyed it emensly over the years. ( and no, just the stock break, no idc 😉

Thanks again. No offense was meant by my post. I hope this post straightens it out.

Rich


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Gratewhitehuntr
(@gratewhitehuntr)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 884
August 15, 2020 06:42:00  

I thought the only gas rams I'd sold were BSA Lightning GTs.

Don't worry, I'm hard to offend, 0fg, and was just gonna politely let you be wrong. Who would it hurt? Meh...

There is a delete button you know... for the consecutive posts...

 

I did go find some pics of DonnyFL's stuff disassembled, they are packed (I'm probably the only one who didn't know this) and I don't see any reason why it shouldn't work other than the density of packing materials. You might try putting something less dense inside to allow more gas to penetrate, just a guess.

Also, my guess about bore alignment and oversized LDC bores appears to have been correct, again, I'm probably the only one who didn't know that.


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csitas
(@csitas)
Joined: 8 months ago
Posts: 16
August 15, 2020 12:50:37  

Gratewhitehunter, just reading your posts here, I have a question. What is your thoughts on the barrle cutting and tapping tools that are on the market? the ones with the pilots.


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Gratewhitehuntr
(@gratewhitehuntr)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 884
August 15, 2020 13:32:05  
Posted by: @csitas

Gratewhitehunter, just reading your posts here, I have a question. What is your thoughts on the barrle cutting and tapping tools that are on the market? the ones with the pilots.

First let's start by saying that I'm only an amateur, and anyone who feels a need to correct me is strongly encouraged.

My general thought is, pilots are good, assuming they are sized correctly, and that they can be used without degrading the bore. Starting a die STRAIGHT is not always an easy thing, and any help you can get is great.

An important point of note on the use of dies, it is necessary to reverse rotation in order to break off the chips, particularly on small ID dies.

https://image.slidesharecdn.com/cuttingexternalthreads-161206041229/95/cutting-external-threads-4-638.jpg?cb=1480997593

 

I'm sure some others would be interested to see examples (links) to whichever specific tooling you had in mind, unless I'm once again the only person unaware of the models in question.

Part of the reason I ask for links, "tapping" means inside threading, whereas outside threads are cut with a die. (of course we're assuming that a person asking this question does not have access to a lathe)

Which were you hoping to accomplish? Inside or outside? (honestly, I can't see the answer being inside, but I can't know)


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csitas
(@csitas)
Joined: 8 months ago
Posts: 16
August 15, 2020 13:48:40  

I have purchased and used the tools for less than 100 bucks. They allow you to cut an oversize barrle  down to the proper size for the die , All operations are done with a pilot. They are for firearms ,so I just assumed they'd surely good enough for an air rifle.


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Gratewhitehuntr
(@gratewhitehuntr)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 884
August 15, 2020 14:02:12  

I don't thing airgun barrels are any different from firearm barrels, except possibly being a lower grade of steel in some cases, and generally having a thicker wall to bore ratio.

Could you provide links, since we're talking about airgun work, it should be ok. Not that I'm in charge, but this seems like a general interest topic.


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csitas
(@csitas)
Joined: 8 months ago
Posts: 16
August 15, 2020 15:17:47  

I'm green on any link stuff.Just google carolinashooters, barrel  threading tools. They also sell an annular cutter for resizing for the proper thread size.  All done with pilots.  Price has gone up since I bought. Have plenty of rifles but presently I'm liking  our bb guns. Fun for an old man to make cr--  and shoot it.


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