Hey guys. I'm in the process of putting 500 rounds through the Fortitude .22 to hopefully "settle the regulator" and tighten up those 35 yard groups. Has anyone done this yet? and did it work?
Also kinda wierd: This is my friend's group yesterday at 50 yards. (video on the way). He did all those shots in the 50 cent ring…then decided to hit each "end of the cross-hair" …so he did do that..pretty awesome for a 65 year old guy who can't see and was shaking because he missed his meds that morning. He also had numb fingers. (your good friend may be a super shooter and you didn't even know it)!
Please let me know anything you found out ….Thanks -Nate M
Got a Fortitude group? Post it here:
with Wal-Mart $5.92 for 500 tin of Crosman Dome Hollow Points 14.5gr
Shooting a new gun to break it in is a very common thing to do. It works for most people, but I'm too impatient.
I believe the Fortitude is a prime candidate for a full tune. I know the internals of it's predecessors very well and from what I've heard it is a combination of those. There are a few things that will not get better and have to be addressed to improve the design.
The reg most likely isn't the sole reason for inaccuracy or even a large extreme spread. A few mods I do to these style guns really help the shot to shot consistency and accuracy. These aren't perfect out of the box, and require tuning to be efficient and consistent.
Cameron
I would love to explore that. I will try and get ahold of you maybe we can talk about it. Thanks for the info! Now I don't have to be surprised when I get another 250 pellets through it and it still shooting like that. That's a fun gun though, one that you can make better and do improvements on. That's actually something people will love about the fortitude I predict. So far I know that there is a $30 trigger from Baker airguns that must be ordered. I'm going to order one today if I can remember
Hi new to this forum and that groups look like you shot it out of a Wildfire.
I would recomment running it over a chrony to see if the regulator is defective.
May I be bold as to suggest not to mess with it until you have at least tried a huge variety of different pellets first? I wouldn't do anything to void the warranty.
If it were me, if it doesn't work out accuracy wise, I would have it WARRANTIED since they carry a FIVE YEAR warranty BEFORE doing any modding to it.
Perhaps you may be able to do an exchange from your vendor if their policy allows because if you don't get significant improvement out of that gun, its a LEMON.
And A LEMON which is all dried up which you can't even make LEMONADE.
Void the warranty ONLY AFTER its shooting good. Such a shame to void a FIVE YEAR WARRANTY....................................................................................................
I would expect at least nickle sized groups at 50 yards after finding the best ammo for it.
HA
Forgot to mention the magic pellets as a suggestion go and get yourself some H&N FTT in these head sizes 5.53 5.54 5.55 and if neither of these shoot accurately in your Fortitude in question then send it for a return/exchange or warranty.
Do your research to find out if changing out the trigger will void your warranty before ordering it.
Remember these are "MAGIC PELLETS"...
You MUST keep at least a tin of each size at all times just in case...
HA
Forgot to mention the magic pellets as a suggestion go and get yourself some H&N FTT in these head sizes 5.53 5.54 5.55 and if neither of these shoot accurately in your Fortitude in question then send it for a return/exchange or warranty.
Do your research to find out if changing out the trigger will void your warranty before ordering it.
Remember these are "MAGIC PELLETS"...
You MUST keep at least a tin of each size at all times just in case...
HA
What he said^^^^^^^
The HN FTT 5.55mm has been my Magic pellet for some of my crosman barrels.
Try higher quality pellets, and make sure you add the HN FTT 5.53, 5.54, and 5.55 to your arsenal.
If your chrony numbers are resonable and none of the high quality pellets work out it would be a candidate for a warranty claim.
If it shows promise you could refine it to make it even better with a full tune.
I started watching your 50 yd testing video, but gave up on it when you brought out the PBA ammo, and mentioned that you were getting your pellets at Walmart. Most of the pellets that you showed (including the PBA) are really pretty poor pellets, and I'm not surprised that they didn't work well. You have been at this long enough , and spent enough money on guns, that you should realize that about pellets. If you really want to test for optimum accuracy, limit your pellets to the ones that are winning Field Target matches, or are being used for FT competition.
I have the final solution for you. Since you purchased from Airgun Depot, WATCH THEIR VIDEOS then CALL THEM FIRST then ask a manager if you follow their video on modding the trigger will they honor a return or warranty if the gun does not live up to your expectation?
VERY IMPORTANT to get the name of the person who OK'd you to do the trigger mod as shown on Air Gun Depot video. Write it down and write the date and time you called, DOCUMENT IT.
I believe the terrible heavy creepy out of the box non adjustable Maximus trigger is the problem with your not being able to get good groups and your overly hyperness.
You really have to be a CALM, SERIOUS, well disciplined and extraordinarily good shot in order to shoot any gun with a bad trigger accurately.
AGD video shows the guy modding one that had a trigger pull of more than 7 pounds and got it down to just over a pound with mods that would literally cost you next to nothing. Nevermind the custom trigger from Baker for now until you know you will keep the gun.
I am willing to bet that the trigger mod and you slowing things down and taking things a lot more seriously and calm down and focus will solve your problem.
And whatever you are on I need some of that $hit. Especially first thing in the morning. SERIOUSLY.
CA
Well said Doug. Are you one of the testers from Hard Air Magazine?
I really want to know why only 10 yards or meters? test targets?
I like reading HAM reviews but till today can't figure out why only
such short distance for accuracy testing.
Some I have seen posted at 25 yards but that is all.
Would there be any possibility of 50 yard test targets in the near future?
I believe I speak for countless inquiring minds as well.
HA
Yes, I am a tester for Hard Air Magazine. I mostly do pistols, pellets, and assorted other things like BC testing.
The reason for 10 yard testing is mostly logistics. We live in western NY, and most of us have other things that we do during the days, and do the testing during our spare time, evenings and weekends. We can all do 10 yd. indoor ranges in our homes, but nobody can do 20 yds, let alone 50 yds. We have dark, cold, snowy winters up here, so in order to be able to have consistent conditions(temp and wind), and be able to do it year round, we are really limited to the 10 yds indoors. There have been a couple of guns that have been able to be tested at longer distances, outdoors. The feeling is that consistent testing is important for comparison purposes, and 10 yds does give an indication of potential. There's also the matter of trying to keep a consistent group of pellet types for the testing.
Someone is going to ask why we don't test pellets for accuracy. The simple answer is that pellet accuracy varies from gun to gun, and it's not practical to test each type of pellet in a bunch of guns
Hey, so the trigger mod needs to Be done. That could be effecting groups. I do see a lot of pellets fly off sideways....to many. But I just got 550 pellets through the fortitude. Groups may be tightening a smidge....time to try new pellets. Waiting right now on 4 different HNs.
Doesnt seem the regulator is working yet. More testing including chrono on the way. Still getting giant groups at 35 yards.
10 shot groups pictured here...my last 200 shots
Now begins the quest for the magic pellet.
I dont think the regulator could Be working if it’s getting groups like that at 35 yards. How would an unregulated gun outshoot it?
The going theory right now is that the regulator needs to be broken in for the gun to shoot right. 500 shots later, the fortitude is still in the dog house.
I’ll get it on the crony but if this guns velocity is not all over the place. I’ll swallow the regulator whole.
Also people are trying to blame my scope mounts and the trigger. Cmon guys! Neither of those are the reason for the horrible accuracy of the so called regulated fortitude. Although I appreciate that the trigger would help and should be upgrade. Thanks for the tips on that! -Nate
I think it is a bit premature to say "regulator not working yet" without a chrony.
If I had to guess I really think the regulator is working fine.
I really don't want to say that YOU SUCK at shooting so I will put it this way instead because I am a nice guy who only wants to help you become a better shooter and more importantly a better reviewer for everyone to enjoy watching so people can take you more seriously rather than laugh (in a sarcastic way), scold or ridicule you as they do now. You want to get more people taking you seriously and watch your channel then LISTEN...
If you are shooting the same Crosman Premier HP at 35 yards and getting those groups then your buddy who shot it at 50 yards is a better shot than you.
Nickel sized groups at 50 yards out of the Discovery Maximus platform is acceptable and I would say better than average. Be happy with quarter size (25 cents) at that distance from it. I have a couple of Discos so I know. Couldn't get good groups before modding the triggers. Not as bad as yours though.
Go ask that friend to watch you shoot especially how you pull the trigger and see if he can coach you to be a better shot. Ask him "what am I doing wrong?" while you pull the trigger when shooting.
WATCH AEAC how he shoots. His concentration, breathing, form, calmness, especially watch how he manages the trigger, watch really carefully.
Don't jump too quickly to conclusions that the gun is no good as of yet.
Don't end up having everyone think its because you are a bad shot.
These are supposed to have the new improved Crosman barrels and I don't think Crosman would put a FIVE YEAR WARRANTY on a gun that is no good from the start.
I stand by my last statement starting with I have the final solution for you.
And really want to know what you are on because I REALLY need some of that especially first thing in the morning.
HA
BTW get your enema ready because I think you will be swalling something whole.
The deal breaker in this case is your friend shooting it at 50 yards ON VIDEO. Now THAT is a really LONG DISTANCE to shoot for an 18fpe gun. EVEN OUTDOORS TOO.
Really hope I'm not wasting my time here.
I really want to help you out because I really care. I would like to donate some maturity to you but I don't know how.
HA
Cool, thank you for all the good advice. Here's one thing though. Shooting a PCP rifle with no kick is super easy. So I can take a Hatsan flash or a brocock compatto, and put 10 shots through a ragged hole, and then I can do that a hundred times in a row. And then I take the fortitude and cannot get a half inch group if my life depended on it.
I will put scope cam footage in my next review. You will see that my Crosshair stay on the target before, during, and after the trigger pull. Almost like I am a robot.
Then I watch the pellets fly this way in that. What is funny is that out of a 10 shot group there will be three holes. The pellets like to fly into one of three directions consistently.
So even with a crappy trigger. I'm basically shooting like a human gun vise. You're just going to have to trust me on that.
The reason I don't think the regulator is working, is if this gun shoots that bad, Compared to the unregulated guns that I have been shooting, then I don't ever want a gun with a regulator. All these companies are putting Regulators in their guns. Why would they do that if it makes no difference or if indeed it makes your gun shoot worse.
I'm just getting more confused by the second. I'm going to see if I can get the regulator removed from my red wolf. I have not shot it yet but I know I don't want a regulator in that gun, I can't believe they put a regulator in a $3,000 gun! Freakin idiots! I'm so pissed right now.
Damn it! I have to go!!!
The reason for a regulator is to keep the shot to shot consistency at a good level and to eliminate the "shot curve". It is a good thing to have a regulator. It helps make the gun more accurate without the user having to fill to a predetermined fill then count their shots or monitor their manometer on the guns all the time. I wouldn't remove it unless it is defective. I wouldn't attempt to fiddle with removing a regulator in such an expensive gun as a Daystate Red Wolf or any gun for that matter. Don't void any of your warranties! I believe Daystate has a 3 year warranty IDK maybe longer? But you cant mess with it if you want to expect the vendor to honor the warranty.
The only down side of regulators is they will eventually require servicing. It is another part of the gun that can and will go bad.
Overall regulators are a good thing to have as long as it is not on a high dollar complicated adjustable gun unless you know what you are doing.
Do not bash regulators, others who read your comments will want to donate
some maturity to you too if they care. You want to keep all who care on your side.
HA
Okay, I'll try to get that all in one video. Yeah my friend made me look like a bad shooter. He did really good.
I guess I am about to order the Baker airguns trigger for $30. I had a bunch of h&n pellets in my cart tonight, and then I'm thinking, I'm never going to buy another Crosman probably or need those pellets for any other thing, so I'm blowing 60 bucks on pellets I'll never use again.
I think I should just give up on the fortitude and save my $60. With the trigger upgrade I would be $100 more into the fortitude.
Should I donate $100 for science knowing I'll get nothing out of it? Basically just to make a video? Now I'm getting all cheap. I've come this far, I guess I'll just spend the money. Hopefully one of you guys can buy those pellets off me. I'm getting three tins of h&n ftt in head size 5.3, a 5.4, and 5.5. 500 rounds each
I was joking about the regulator removal. I got you!
Here is what sums up everything about the regulated fortitude that I am mad about. It was supposed to be a regulated PCP. So I expected it to shoot better or at least as good as the other $300 pcps. When it did not I was very disappointed and surprised. So I guess I'm not dealing with that in a very mature way.
And I probably should have called a doctor before promising to swallow that regulator. Oh well. I'm pretty sure I won't have to at this point.
It also appears it's going to be up to me to find the magic pellet for this gun.... since it is obvious from this thread, that I'm the only one who owns a fortitude.
That means that at least you guys are not buying them....mission complete. At least I was the only victim, and Steve from AEAC, and the guy at Baker airguns. So, so far only three victims... we can thank God for that.
Ted is not considered a victim because he got his for free
Whats troubling is that you seem to be the only one with bad grouping results based on what I see on the net. I would suggest if you wanted to donate something to science is "round trip" postage to send it for a non biased second opinion on the gun AS IS before doing anything to it. It should be less than the $100 you suggested.
I would suggest you send it to Pluric and have him shoot it the way it is which will take out at least one important variable out of this equation. You guys already have a good relation so it should work out great. If HE says its NO GOOD then send it in or have him send it in for WARRANTY. My guess? He would get half inch groups to 5/8 at 50 yards with its favorite ammo AS IS.
No more stress for you after this.
At least not for THIS FORTITUDE.
HA
"I'm never going to buy another Crosman probably or need those pellets for any other thing, so I'm blowing 60 bucks on pellets I'll never use again."
You're kidding, right? You'll spend tons of money on guns, but you won't spend a few extra bucks on decent pellets, that will give you a much better chance of getting the best out of those guns. You should check out the pellet reviews in Hard Air Magazine, and look at the variability in head size and weight. We've(meaning me, since I do the testing) done the homework for you there, and you won't have to weigh (if you were willing to buy a decent balance) or size pellets. There is a HUGE difference in the quality of pellets!
HA, How funny you suggested sending it to Pluric. I had the same thought yesterday.
He sent me his Nova Freedom which is turned out to be my most watched video by 3-4X. (That's 135K views as compared to my next most watched at 40k views) . So I owe him big time but also I was thinking of his Nova Freedom original written review and it would be nice to see the same thing with the Fortitude. About my groups, seems most people won't shoot the Fortitude at over 25 yards which I didn't like, so they don't count..accept Tyler did the .177 at 45 yards.
Also, your prediction that my groups would tighten right up with the proper pellet is very encouraging! I'm going to spend the $ on ammo...for science!
...and Pluric will be getting this gun to check out..if he wants it. Thanks HA!
P.S. HA is the best Hard Core Airgun reviewer in my opinion. I ALWAYS check out HA before I review (or buy) a gun...and it's funny because HA ALWAYS has the gun I'm looking for no matter how new or old it is. ...my favorite. ...and AirGunGearShow is by far my favorite Youtube guy. (new videos just came out)!
People tell me sometimes to check out Steve at AEAC and Ted to learn how to make a proper video. Ted said "Don't copy other people, do your own thing"...but Giles here is the one I'm trying to emulate. No one ever mentions him.??? He's just plain hilarious! Check out this noise: https://www.instagram.com/airgungear/ if your a fan you will like this. I just discovered it about 5 minutes ago.
Sorry, It takes me some time to read all the posts. I'm going to put a new trigger in this and test some more pellets, then send it to Pluric, then pass it along to HA for a good price if they still want one. Looking forward to that $40 Gold trigger from Baker Airguns! I'll need another 3 weeks or so with it to get my pellets and shoot them. Thanks for all your help guys!
---on my way to check out that HA pellet info now.... -Nate
I know I'm too late, but you should check out Straight Shooters pellet samplers. Good variety without having to buy a bunch of tins you may never shoot again. Available in popular calibers. Just sayn'.
http://www.straightshooters.com/straight-shooters-full-pellet-sampler-.22.html
Also, please buy a trigger pull gauge. I'm sure others would be as curious as I would be the before and after differences on any trigger work you decide to do. Feel, smoothness and break are subjective but pull pressure can be documented. Something like this....
Thank you for all your efforts to let us know what's new and available. ?
Rick
Awesome. I'll order that trigger pull scale today. The pellet sampler I'll get soon for my collection.
I guess I collect pellets now. I won't let my pellet collecting get out of control though, like the air guns did.
Thanks for the links! -Nate
Baker Trigger is on the way to me. Hooray!
