Findlay adoptees

Nice additions to your collection. Neat little BSA Light pattern you picked up. Funny thing, the term "Standard" meant about 5 (or more) different things over the course of BSA prewar production. Around 1908 it first referred to the 43 1/2 as the standard length rifle as opposed to the shorter lady (later referred to as light) and the longer Sporting pattern .22. Then around 1916 it was light etched on the 45 inch Sporting Pattern .22's.  43 1/2 inch .177's were no longer produced. Post WW1 Standards came in all sizes and calibers.  Can't make out the serial#.  Cast trigger guard means 1919 or 20. Some are cast and some are stamped. Some stocks have cut checkers and some are stamped. Yours looks cut. They assembled the guns with the parts on hand as they came in from the suppliers. By 1924 the checkered area on the pistol grip says "BSA" within. And all are now stamped checkers. Thousands of the 1919-20 Light 39 1/2"177 and Standard length 45" .22 (Long Tom) guns were imported. The most common post WW1 BSA's you'll see. And there are still  quite a few around in very good condition.  Production ended 1939. The manufacturing facility leveled during the Battle of Britain. They were producing Enfields under contract.  The BSA 21a sight is not exceptionally rare, but you don't see the 21b very often. (I don't have one) There's also a slightly later #22 version. The darn turret rear sight tends to obscure your vision when using the folding leaf sight. That's the way they are....  Interesting guns to show and shoot.

   BSA did not resume airgun manufacture until 1948 when they released the beautiful Mk1 Airsporters.

Thanks!

Serial is L8318. It has the cast "pegged" trigger guard, and stamped checkering.

That makes it 1920. The guard would be dovetailed. Pegged guards had a different trigger block with a direct sear and an adjustment screw. They were small pin up until late 1907 BSA Air Rifles, and Improved Model B. A few early Improved Model D's in 1908  and then large pin up to I think about 1916. Only Pre WW1 guns including all Lincoln Jeffries after the 2nd batch. 

BSA #22 sight. I made the knurled adjustment screw. Was missing.

Two pictures of really nice light etching. 1924 Club Standard and 1920 Light Pattern

Rare 1912 Juvenile Pattern with large pin trigger guard

Lincoln Jeffries  (H the Lincoln) second batch cast trigger guard with long tang inletted into the stock. 1906 . Very few Lincoln Jeffries in the States. I'm happy to own this one even though it's a little rough. Shoots well.

@kwk Very nice guns! Would love to see your collection one day, and I appreciate your sharing your considerable knowledge of these uber-classics.

Please excuse any improper terminology on my part; I am but a novice in the Royal and Ancient Order of the BSA Air Rifle. My main reference is Mr. Mislewski's new book - which I've owned for all of one day longer than the rifle! (Right or wrong, he does use the term "pegged" to describe this type of "Standard No. 1, First Series" trigger guard; see p. 115. "Dovetailed" sounds rather more impressive!).

Posted by: @mdriskill

I am but a novice in the Royal and Ancient Order of the BSA Air Rifle.

Perhaps you're versed enough to help me out?

Is there some BSA, or other, which has the look of what KWK has posted above, but is less desirable? (read, cheap)

I love the styling, but not keen on using collectables for general plinking.

Stated differently, what sort of base prices should one expect in this style/vintage of rifle?

Are they more common in 177 or 22? More desirable in 177 or 22?

This is an open question, not specific to Mr. Driskill. Anyone, any info, I know nothing of this niche.

@gratewhitehuntr 

The BSA underlevers were made between the turn of the century and WW2, and most have the same basic quarter-stock architecture. I would guess .22 is more common than .177, and newer models generally more common than older, but could be wrong about that.

Both calibers were designed to shoot around 600 FPS. So .22's are bigger than .177's; the receiver tube, barrel, and cocking lever are all significantly longer.

This photo from the excellent new Milewski book shows the difference, and an interesting exception - the CS (Club Standard) that had a long .177 action.

The few I've seen offered at airgun shows tend to be .22's with noticeable wear, with asking prices in the $400 to $600 range.

And I will leave further notes to the actual experts.

@mdriskill 

Thanks. That's a pretty good summary already, compared to what I knew. 😳 177 it shall be!

Just looking at your pic now, it's become apparent that the thumb groove over the wrist (called beavertail, on a pistol) really adds something.

The more stylized the stock, the better. 😍 

Is there an online resource for BSA, like an archive? The search only returns marketing wankery about Ye Ol' Heritage yada yada.

Again, collecting is not my goal. Anything pre-ww2 that still shoots, should last the rest of my lifetime 🤣. One and done!

@gratewhitehuntr 

On old air rifles (especially English ones maybe?), that's called a "monk's cowl" grip!

Here are some excellent discussion forums for collectible airguns:

https://www.airgunbbs.com/forumdisplay.php?22-Collectable-airguns

https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?board=124.0

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/americanvintageairguns/

And the FABULOUS "Vintage Airguns Gallery" (VAG) site run by Danny Garvin in the UK has an amazing cache of photos. Anyone with the slightest interest in vintage airguns needs to bookmark this:

https://forum.vintageairgunsgallery.com/bsa/

Note near the top of the VAG page, the "Vintage airguns discussion forums" - older message boards devoted to specific brands (including one for BSA) that Danny rolled into the site.

https://forum.vintageairgunsgallery.com/vintage-bsa-airguns-talk/

Excellent old-fashioned general interest books for vintage airguns include WHB Smith's 1957 "Gas, Air, and Spring Guns of the World;" Dennis Hiller's "Collector's Guide to Air Rifles;" and the first three editions of John Walter's "The Airgun Book."

Three great books devoted to specific makes include Gordon Bruce's "Webley Air Pistols," Chris Thrale's "Webley Air Rifles," and John Milewski's brand new "The Book of the BSA Air Rifle 1905 to 1939."

As usual, nice stuff Mike. It was nice to converse with you and to see that nice BSA also. Great show as always too.

You may find the Diana 430L to be “interesting “. I purchased a demo one from the pyramid folks three years ago for cheap 3 years ago with an interesting low powered spring in it. Reading the results of others and my experiences with Diana guns, I knew I didn’t want full power. The cocking geometry may be the main culprit for the bad rap. 

Tuning with a Vortek .118” spring and making a top hat got 10.75 fpe and all the cocking effort I would want. The HW under levers cock much easier. I wouldn’t want to try one with the standard Diana .128” spring. As an aside, the stroke on the 430 is about 78-80 mm (hard to measure) vs 87 mm for the barrel cocking guns.

Another caveat is the T06 trigger which can be very nice, but may need attention. Lots of info here as it has come up, and Hector helped me out. Overall kinda a frustrating gun unless massaged over a bit, but very accurate. Good luck on all your new purchases. I only came home with accessories as those Diana 28s weren’t quite the ones I was after.

Never heard of the term "monks cowl" to describe any BSA stock. Just saying. I do refer to that area as a "crested stock" at times but I think I coined that title myself. Not sure.

Milewski shows a Club standard the same length as a Long Tom 45" and says the CS is .177. Some of them were .22 as well. I have one in .22 in near mint condition. The Club Standards made in the '30's are to my knowledge all .177 but the length is shorter than a Long Tom (45") at 43 1/2" (same as the early "standard" BSA's and Lincoln Jeffries "H the Lincoln"). They also have the "saw handle" stock and an adjustment screw in the stamped trigger guard. I have one of these as well. Hard to find, they made fewer rifles in the '30's plus the fact it's a limited production anyway.

1930's style Saw handle stock and stamped trigger guard w/ adjustment screw on a pretty rare BSA Breakdown pattern .177.

@sd5782 

Thanks! Great to see you too - the fellowship is as much fun as the guns themselves at about any show!

The 430 is really a whole new class of gun for me, we'll see how it goes! I find the cocking effort tolerable...but yeah, it wouldn't be my first pick for a full afternoon of plinking, lol...

@kwk 

Well I'm not smart enough to have made up "monk's cowl" on my own, LOL, which sent me to my books. John Walter's The Airgun Book 3rd Edition (1984), uses it in a sidebar BSA article that John Knibbs helped with. Very descriptive I think.

BSA themselves used the terms "pistol hand" or "pistol grip" for that stock; and "straight hand" for the alternate simpler straight wrist design.