Does "S" translate as special, super, spring, or heavy? The corresponding german words are speziale, super, feder, and schwere. If "S" implies heavy, is a Junior still a version of the 300S?
Google works really well!
https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2012/02/fwb-300s-vintage-target-air-rifle-part-1/
As the linked report explains, the 300S was just a revision of the previous model. FWB's springer match springer rifles were the models 150 (introduced 1963), 300 (1968), and 300S (1972).
The 300S was made for over 25 years and includes a lot of detail variations, especially in the stocks. It's by far the most common model you will find for sale today.
The 300S Junior (aka Mini) is the same as any other 300S except for a shorter barrel with no weight sleeve and a shorter beech stock. AFAIK there was no 150 or 300 Junior.
This link will take you to a visual overload of FWB match rifles...
https://forum.vintageairgunsgallery.com/feinwerkbau-rifles/
I'm still researching this question, and have a note into Feinwerkbau in Oberndorf (the one on the Neckar River in Baden) . I'm thinking that "S" may refer to schaft, or stock. The commonality of all 300S and the difference from the previous models is the new competition version stock (except the 300S Tyrolean, a special order item using the old version stock). "S" cannot possibly mean spring as I think the Pyramdydair article suggests, and all these guns are schwere, and special, super or sonderklasse would imply that the 300S is "better" than the 150 or 300 version: it's not better, but just a revision supplied with a more contemporary stock?
Google/Internet is often useless on these esoteric question, with everybody just quoting everyone else, or just making the "facts" up!
To me !! and I have been doing this airgun thing for a very long time. Any version of the 300 is very special in its own right. There were many differences over the years. That said any version in your hands is a real treasure to have and to shoot.
Personally I wish they still produced the rifle, but today it's cost would be high and today everyone is on the PCP bandwagon which is not a good thing. Any version of a 150-300 is a gem and one cannot have too many. Today objects like the 300 are a thing of the past. Today it's all about the bean counters and the Rifle is a thing of beauty and a real piece of art.. things like the FWBs should be treasured and remembered in a grand manner.
Since you seem to think my previous response was made up or plagiarized (?), I will add that I own a 300, 3 different 300S's, and pretty good stack of old catalogs and literature.
The diffs between the two are NOT only the stock. The S has a shorter barrel, reconfigured stock sleeve weight, different front sight, a shorter cocking arm with a different latch, significantly revised trigger mechanism, and other differences. It shares many parts, but is a different rifle.
And if you care to look at the link I posted, you will discover that the S wore more than one stock. The basic Match version got one major revision, there were 4 variations of a Running Boar stock, 3 iterations of a more adjustable Universal stock, 2 versions of the Junior stock, and the 300SL stock (intended to mimic FWB's rimfire rifles), in addition to the Tyro. All of these still have "300S" stamped on the action.
I don't know (or care, frankly) what the "S" is for. But for what it's worth, a similar set of revisions to Walther's LGV barrel-cocking match rifle of the mid-'60s resulted in the succeeding LGV "Spezial" model.
Great info as usual Mike, You too are a real treasure !
Here is a visual of my assorted FWB rifles, you can see not only is the stock different but the cocking arm, sights, as well as other features.
150T
300T
300S T, Universal v1, Match L, Running Target v1 & Running Target v4
Your's is a spectacular collection, but with the exception of the 300S T, all the 300"S" models you show share a commonality: a competition type stock by the standards of the day. The 150 and 300 do not. If the "S" descriptive is important or not is irrelevant. If the gun has a plastic or metal trigger, a barrel sleeve, a particular front sight, one or two springs, a thumbhole or not are details. Fact is the design of the gun evolves as does the type of competition stock and although I'm not certain yet, I suspect that FWB thought their new competition type stock was important enough to relabel the gun as a "S" or schaft model.
As to why there is no "sport" version 300, it may be that FWB thought that sport or hunting use was better served with a model 121, 124, or 127, which may likely be true?
As to why the stock changed from 150/300 to 300S, this may relate to affluence and social issues: more Deutsch Mark to spend on more sophisticated versions of essentially similar airguns?
These guns were designed to be legal powered 10 competition guns. They never intended then to be used for anything else. During their time of manufacture spring powered rifles ruled the sport. The FWB guns were the ones to shoot if you wanted to be competitive. They made higher powered, lighter weight rifles for sport.
Both the 150 and 300 models most certainly came with other than what is shown above and what I think you mean sporter stock. Those (sporter) are by far the most common as they are with all the 150, 300 and 300S models. As mentioned the differences between the three models mentioned goes well beyond the style of stock.
Of all the guns I have sold, my only regret is the FWB 300.
I've said many times, never sell= no regrets ?
The 150 and 300 were not designed as "sporter" stocks. They are full-race 10-meter match rifles, with shallower fore ends fully conforming to the design norms of THEIR (slightly earlier) day, and are not as trim and light as you think
Take a look at contemporaries like the Weihrauch HW 55; Walther LG 55, LGV, LGV Special; Anschutz 220 and early 250; and Diana 60, 65, etc.
That's a truly spectacular example of a 300! Here'a view you usually don't see that helps you to compare the four: 150, 300, 300ST and first type 300S Universal. Wrong diopter on the 150.
@mdriskill I was taking sporter to mean "standard" vs the more exotic Universal, RT and so on. Check your inbox
@mdriskill I was taking sporter to mean "standard" vs the more exotic Universal, RT and so on. Check your inbox
Thanks Mike - understood! "Sporter" has become a generic term, which collectors use to describe the shallower fore end of the earlier FWB models 150 and 300.
My point is that anybody who buys an FWB "sporter" stock, thinking they are getting a slender, light, whippy-handling field rifle, is in for a major disappointment! They are heavy, 10+ pound, full-race, 600 FPS, 10-meter match guns, just as much as the later 300S.
An additional note on FWB Tyrolean stocks. The UIT banned Tyros from high-level competition in the early 1970's. Demand for them from German match shooters thus ended just as the 300S came out! The few factory Tyro stocks seen on 300S actions were just using up the suddenly obsolete NOS ones in the warehouse, originally made for the 300.
Dave Slade, head mechanic at Beeman's for many years, told me that many US-market 300S Tyros were actually created in Beeman's shop, after the Doc had bought up a bunch of stocks (and the hard-to-find different trigger guards) from FWB. Again, not an attempt at a "sporter" version - he simply understood that many American shooters would be attracted to the Tyro's aesthetics.
Your's is a spectacular collection, but with the exception of the 300S T, all the 300"S" models you show share a commonality: a competition type stock by the standards of the day. The 150 and 300 do not. If the "S" descriptive is important or not is irrelevant. If the gun has a plastic or metal trigger, a barrel sleeve, a particular front sight, one or two springs, a thumbhole or not are details. Fact is the design of the gun evolves as does the type of competition stock and although I'm not certain yet, I suspect that FWB thought their new competition type stock was important enough to relabel the gun as a "S" or schaft model.
As to why there is no "sport" version 300, it may be that FWB thought that sport or hunting use was better served with a model 121, 124, or 127, which may likely be true?
As to why the stock changed from 150/300 to 300S, this may relate to affluence and social issues: more Deutsch Mark to spend on more sophisticated versions of essentially similar airguns?
I believe what you are seeing with the FWB stock change, is not some earth-shaking change in function, so much as a simple change in fashion.
The match air rifle game is extremely competitive in Germany, with a constant marketing "arms race" to have the latest-and-greatest features and "look." Just look at today's hyper-adjustable metal-stocked PCP 10-meter rifles, to see how that has continued over the years.
Shallower, parallel-sided fore end wood was the "competition standard" of the 50's and 60's. But deeper, more angular match rifle fore ends became all the rage in the 70's, and lots of guns - not just the FWB's - made this change.
Examples (every one of the deep fore end models was introduced in the 1970's):
+ FWB models 150 and 300 shallow; 300S deep.
+ Walther models LG 53, LG 55, LGV, and early LGV Special shallow; late LGV Special deep.
+ Anschutz models 220 and early 250 shallow; late 250 deep.
+ Diana models 60 and 65 shallow; models 66 and 75 deep.
+ Weihrauch model HW 55M shallow; HW 55CM deep (pic below).
You can have fun looking all these up on Danny Garvin's awesome "Vintage Airguns Gallery" site: https://forum.vintageairgunsgallery.com
My hunch is the FWB "S" is nothing more than a marketing guy's way of saying, "Hey look, we improved the gun!," and does not refer to any specific feature. I also think the changes to the 300S action - which lasted for many years and saw many different stocks - were more important than the initial new Match stock.
But...I've been wrong before! There is always something new to learn in the old-airgun game, and I will be interested to see FWB's response to your inquiry.
I've received a communication from Volker Muller from FWB GmbH who writes "The first 300 series was equipped with a symmetrical, hunting style stock. With the 300S model, the system and especially the stock were further developed to meet the sporting demands of sport shooters. Accordingly, the S in the 300S stands for "sport"...
I had thought S might mean speziale, schaft, schwerer, or sonderklasse...but there is always something new to learn!
So - YOU WERE RIGHT ALL ALONG! The note you received makes pretty clear the "S" indicates stock changes, to make it a better target rifle. So much for me, LOL...! ?
I don't speak German, so this is just a hunch based on all the airgun stuff I've looked at over the years. In English the word "sport" has a connotation of referring to hunting, etc.; but in German, "sport" rifles are for target shooting - a more popular thing there than here, at all levels from amateur to world class.
(In defense of my previous verbosity, I still note that many competitors' guns made similar changes at about the same time; and that the earlier 300 was no less a "serious" 10-meter rifle in its day than the 300S. Taller fore ends were as much about fashion and marketing, as competition.)
All very interesting, thanks for the follow-up!
@mdriskill I'm curious, Is there a book about the development and history of the 150/300? I'd like to see one along the lines of the R1 book.
@john-f Not that I know of!
Closest thing I might suggest is the various editions of John Walter's "The Airgun Book," published in the 1980's, especially the first or second (very little diff between them); and revised third; editions. Fairly easy to find - and really very valuable for any springer fan.
The third (red cover) edition was a major factor in my current addiction...bought it new on a visit to London about '85 and pretty much had it memorized before I got home, LOL!
Old catalogs (Air Rifle Headquarters, Beeman etc.) and advertising literature are very useful too of course.
Good day all, glad to see this place up and running again.
John F,
I would suggest purchasing MDriskill's book on Vintage Airguns, only one problem.....he hasn't written it yet!
Come on Mike, alot of us are waiting. LOL.
PS. John in that family of airguns, 150/300 there is also the little known model 110, which is basically a 150 with the different model #. My little tid bit of history. ?
BE WELL, STAY SAFE GUYS
@hooligan I'm aware of it. I think some one actually had one at the old Benton Ark. show years ago. It wold be interesting to see what FWB had in R&D to help their top shooters.
The FWB 110 was a 150 without the recoilless bits - the action was fixed in the stock and did not move when fired. They were introduced at the same time I think. The idea was to have a simpler and cheaper version of the design, I suppose, but it didn't catch on and not too many were made.
Tom Gaylord has one, and has done several nice blog entries on it.
https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2021/10/fwb-110-recoiling-target-rifle-part-4/
MDriskil,
Thanks for sharing Tom's 4 part blog. I had no idea he had purchased a model 110 of his own. I new of the prior write up regarding Tommy,s 110 so this was a surprise to me and a good read, looking forward to part 5. Oh and thanks for mentioning the 110 as being a coiling springer as I had not mentioned that verses 150 recoilless.
Here's a You Tube link showing the 110 vs 150.
Here are the two, the 110 from 1966, the 150 1968. Almost exactly the same in all respects except for beech or walnut, sled or not, and less sophisticated shoulder pad on the 110. I suspect these models were made contemporaneously. As the FWB note implied, the 110 might be a good hunting airgun? Note incorrect rear sight on 150, original finish stained beech on 110.
Thanks for the video link, it's GREAT! Very enjoyable indeed. The note on production numbers at the end is a revelation. Only 180 model 110's were made, wow!
I've often thought the 110 action would have been a natural for a high-end sporter, wouldn't that be exquisite? But I guess the timing was off...if these guns had come along a few years later (i.e. after the 1970 German law effectively limiting sporters to match gun power), maybe it woulda happened.
While we are on the subject, what is the difference between the rear FWB300s Diopter Match sight vs the regular Diopter rear sight?
The rear sights used on the 150, 300, and 300S are basically all the same, but during 300S production the design was modified to have a quick-release lever on the clamping screw. Either version will fit any FWB rifle.
Early "type 1" sight - clamping knob on the right. To slide the sight off, the knob must first be turned out as far as it will go.
Late "type 2" sight - clamping knob on the left, release lever on the right. To remove the sight, just loosen the knob and flip the lever forward.
@MDriskill, thank you for the tutorial on the diff between "match" and standard sights. Other than the quick release, are they virtually the same??
It's not a question of "standard" and "match." The OEM match sight simply got slightly modified at one point. The 150/300/300S were manufactured for over 35 years and lots of small changes happened over that time.
Either sight fits any of these guns, as well as the 120-series sporters.
I just bought an old 300S which has been used as a basic shooting trainer by Finnish Defence Forces (the engraved tower logo shown in the picture).
I just can’t understand how the rear sight should be tightened properly to the gun. If I align the pivot with a notch on top of the rail, the sight will be loose. If I align it between the notches it will leave a mark in the gun.
Which is the proper way to attach and tighten the rear sight?
I just bought an old 300S which has been used as a basic shooting trainer by Finnish Defence Forces (the engraved tower logo shown in the picture).
I just can’t understand how the rear sight should be tightened properly to the gun. If I align the pivot with a notch on top of the rail, the sight will be loose. If I align it between the notches it will leave a mark in the gun.
Which is the proper way to attach and tighten the rear sight?
You will see that cross bolt has a flat, when loosened it will turn and allow clearance to slide the sight off. Find a cross slot when installing and turn the knob allowing the cross bolt to turn and find center if that slot. Once dead center tighten down. You will need the FWB tool or find a washer or coin that fits those slots on the knob. That sight still needs to squeeze the dovetail.
A little oil doesn’t hurt on the moving parts either,
Jason
I can't add to Jason's excellent explanation, but do note that the fine lines on top of the receiver act as alignment marks - when the front of the sight body hits one of these, the big cross-bolt sits at one of the securing grooves.
This is more critical for the "Type 1" sight (where a mis-aligned, or not fully retracted, bolt can damage the receiver finish) but handy on the later "Type 2" quick-release version as well.
They should have mentioned this to those army cadets! 😁
Mike,
I have a question I have not answered for myself yet on the rear sight and maybe you would know. I am down to 2 minis and 2 late model match rifles. I sold both of my early 70’s models. All four of my rear sights are the late models but one is dramatically shorter than the others. Do you recall a smaller sight coming on the junior models?
Jason
Hi Jason
I'm not aware of a shorter sight being used on an FWB air rifle, but their older model 2600 rimfire target rifle had this one...
Mike,
I might run through all my paperwork again tomorrow when I get done shooting and see if I can find some clues. The shorter sight has no window for the windage, also I noticed the finish is just rougher. On the bottom you can see four circle indentations left from casting. Also on the right side you can see parting lines running parallel in the base, and the same parting lines vertical on the elevation sled.
Now, I took a glance at my other two mounted on my shooters. So they are both different. One has a window for the windage lines, one does not. And the one that does not, it is rougher in finish also, however it is the same longer length as the other two. It appears that the stops on the actuator are different also.
So three of my sights are longer than that one. I believe it come on one if my minis, but since these are not serialized we would never know how these were swapped around over the years.
Jason
I can't add to Jason's excellent explanation, but do note that the fine lines on top of the receiver act as alignment marks - when the front of the sight body hits one of these, the big cross-bolt sits at one of the securing grooves.
This is more critical for the "Type 1" sight (where a mis-aligned, or not fully retracted, bolt can damage the receiver finish) but handy on the later "Type 2" quick-release version as well.
They should have mentioned this to those army cadets! 😁
Thanks for the tip!
Yeah, it seems that the normal army way has been used: if it doesn’t fit, use more power 🤪
Actually there were around 30 of these former FDF 300S in the surplus shop for sale. They had just got new patch that day and this one was clearly in the best condition. Some of the rifles seemed that they have had their share of bad treatment during the years.
When I was doing my obligatory military service, each company had one these air rifles and conscripts were allowed to freely practice with it in the garrison’s basement.
It seems that nowdays simulator training has replaced the air rifle training. And therefore FDF is selling the air rifles.
Well this is very interesting! I've never seen a sight like your short one. Perhaps it was to clear the flip-up loading port on the early 600-series SSP / CO2 guns?
I have two of the "Type 1" sights (full-width bolt), on a 1970 300, and a 1974 300S, plus another incomplete beater one. As far as I can tell all three are identical, and have the view window.
I have two of the "Type 2" sights (quick-release bolt), on a 1980 Universal, and a 1991 Junior. They are slightly shorter than the Type 1's. The U has the window, the Junior does not, but they are otherwise identical in size and detail.
As far as I know all four diopters are the correct OEM ones, which if true hints the little window was a late cost-cutting casualty.
I dug my paperwork out today and could not come up with anything conclusive on the shorter rear sight. I have a 1980 and 1991 FWB 300s junior, and both my full size rifles are a 1980 and 1986.
I suspect that sight come off my 1991. Reading through my paperwork the sights all have the windage window in the description. I too think it may have been a cost cut towards the end, hard to say for sure.
I have an un-dated Feinwerkbau colored flyer that must towards the end if the 300s production run, it has the 300s series, 600’s and the CO2 listed. Looking closely the sight on the 300s junior in the ad looks identical from the right side to the one I have in question. The SSP and CO2 have different sights.
In the end of all this ramblin, I say it is safe to say I have seen three different type2 FWB rear sights. And it appears the earlier ones had a better fit and finish.
Jason
Most of my 10m shooting takes place during the cold season here, as I have a little more time than during the mowing season.
All of my rifles have replacement but pad assemblies from FWB. The last several years I have been experiencing failures of the plastic portion right above the lower bolt. I have been through probably half a dozen. It is not from rough handling either, or over torque of the two mounting screws. The only thing I can think of us the vertical storage in my gun cabinet and the weight of the rifle. My juniors have been fine.
As a result I went out on a limb and ordered aftermarket Gehmann Universal Buttpads. And I am glad I did. These are heavy Aluminum and Rubber, and are very solid, much more robust than the FWB.
So both of my heavy shooters are wearing the Gehman’s and I find them comfortable to shoot. The FWB were leaving a hot spot on the lower side towards my armpit with the slight hook shape.
Jason
I have been doing some other tinkering trying to improve my scores lol. I had been shooting the FWB clear inserts, but they are getting scarce to find in different sizes. I have a bunch if the steel inserts, however only one of the clear. The inserts also sit loose in the aperture holder for those who are familiar.
I went on a limb and ordered the Anschutz M18 clamping disc, and several sizes of clear, yellow and smoke inserts. The clamping disc is nice as it actually clamps onto the step on those inserts.
I have also found, the step and OD of the Anschutz inserts to be around 1mm larger, as a result more light.
Today I tried the yellow tinted insert in 4.2, and I like it.
I just wanted to share for those looking for options.
https://www.champchoice.com/anschutz-18mm-clamping-disk-to-hold-apertures-016640
https://www.champchoice.com/anschutz-18mm-clear-aperture-9720
https://www.champchoice.com/anschutz-18mm-yellow-aperture-9721
https://www.champchoice.com/anschutz-18mm-smoke-aperture-9722
Jason
My other rifle I went with the adjustable Anschutz front aperture. The polished glass is nice. One thing I found was the black ring thickness is slightly larger than the clear inserts. Being adjustable is a nice feature.
When you thread this in, you can land the white dot on top, then use the included spanner wrench and tighten the locking ring.
I also started experimenting with eye blinders, and I am getting better with them.
Jason
Wow, that is a great bunch of accessories (and some VERY fine shooting)! Thanks much for letting us see 'em - I need to try some of those out.
An odd feature of FWB's front sights, which like Anschutz use the "M18" 18mm clamping sleeve thread, is that they use the same metal insert pattern as vintage Walther and Diana sights - which are the smaller "M17" thread. Your Anschutz clear inserts actually are a bit bigger.
The metal inserts' interchangability can be handy though...my fave plinking front sight insert for FWB's, is this beaded post that's a Diana part!
I looking buy the FWB MOD Sport
joe
I have mic’d the FWB branded clear inserts and the o.d is 16mm with a 14mm step. What I found originally is that the M18 Anschutz inserts would not drop into the FWB clamping sleeve because they measured 17mm o.d. which drops into the foresight tunnel fine, however the step down is 15mm.
One disadvantage to the FWB clear insert is they sit loosely in the clamping sleeve. To keep finger prints off the insert, I would use a q tip through the tunnel from the front holding pressure against the insert while threading in. The Anschutz clamping disc holds the M18 Anschutz inserts nice and snug.
One other slight disadvantage to the FWB inserts sitting loosely, is that the slop is enough, if you remove your insert and swap sizes, you loose your poi. I purchased two Anschutz clamping sleeves for different colors, and I have found the POI remains the same when changing.
So these are only minor things but some observations I have made.
Jason
What do these classic air rifle sell for used today in EX condition
joe
Any Ham operators in group
I’m on 21330 now for few hours
KA2ZSD Alaska
More sage observations - thanks!
A metal front sight insert typically fit into a recess that is slightly forward, and smaller in diameter, than the threads for its securing sleeve (over the years there have been three different standards for the sleeves (M17, M18, and M22). Sleeves thus interchange between same-size makes, but inserts are proprietary to each manufacturer (with some exceptions per above).
I have a set of those older Champion's Choice clear inserts without the stepped edge. They simply drop to the front of an M18 sleeve cylinder, and NOT into the step for the insert. So the good news is they fit any M18 sight, but the bad news - just as you describe for an undersized step - is the sloppy fit.
I've posted this before, but it points out the deltas between sleeve thread and insert diameters.
What do these classic air rifle sell for used today in EX condition
joe
Any Ham operators in group
I’m on 21330 now for few hours
KA2ZSD Alaska
Negatory Togo on the Ham. Prices are all over the board on these FWB recently, and not many are coming up for sale on the normal sites I check daily.
Base models/match I imagine $600-900.
Match L / Universals / Tyro $600-1100
Unicorn Running target / boar ?
Just estimates above,
Jason
I always wanted a like new or new Junior model, and passed one up probably 10-15 yrs ago NIB on an auction site and it went for $1200-1500. I ended up grabbing a couple of BEAT up club guns and with ALOT of time and effort / Hot blues, and rebuilds ended up with a couple of labor of loves. My favorite scoped air rifles of all time,
And the other, which this stock is not original just extra one I have. The original which is not pictured is also a stepped forend minus the bevels on the end. I don’t have any pictures of it other then when it was in process of being refinished.
Those are gorgeous! Thanks for the notes and pics.
I have a Junior as well, and my only complaint is that it makes me feel like the zillion other air rifles I have are kind of pointless! I have the OEM rather dinged-up stock, but it currently sits in a 300SL stock that I found cheap on the interwebs, but was rescued by Doug Phillips in Texas.
