Gents,
I’m at a crossroad here. I’m considering an HW90 which has presented itself in .20 but I’ll have to act quickly before it’s gone.
I also have a couple of resources looking for a MK4 Eliminator in .20.
I’m leaning toward the Eliminator. I recently picked up an HW90 in .22 at the Columbus show. I haven’t even cocked or fired it yet. Given the .20 caliber, which is a better choice? Is the ram in the 90 an HE design?
I’m wanting something that can reach out there…..
Which is a better gun?
Sonny? Jim Bentley? Dual mag Mike?…Anybody?
The Eliminator. However, you are talking $400 (HW90) vs. $1,000 (Theoben) in the used market. I could go through all the details, but today's market has now separated the two product lines with price by a wide margin. Regarding performance, you are looking at a 5-7FPE difference. The HW-90 has a better trigger. Fit and finish goes to the Theoben.
Thanks Sonny. Part of me is wondering if the .177 90 would be best. I see your praise for it. I figure it to be a flatter shooter but not sure if it would be any better out past 50yds. Just trying to figure out this last gun to round out my arsenal and call it complete.
You are pushing the limits of both those guns past 50 yards. I'd pick whatever caliber you have the least of. I'm sure it's the .20. If you want practical go for the HW. If you want more of a looker get the Theoben.
Both are great rifles. Like Sonny said the Eliminator is tops in fit and finish but long and heavy. The HW90 is an excellent gun in either .22 or .20. I wasn’t impressed with mine in .177 it was a harsh shooter. You can shoot an HW at full power way easier than an Eliminator at full power. I find that around 27 ftlbs to be right for the Eliminator.
@straitflite Whatever, sounds to me you are in DENIAL (no not the river in the far east), ask me how I know?
No exp with the Eli, but Ive had two RX/HW90 rifles and loved them both. There are fantastic rifles but mistaken be not, they are built like a tank and weigh about as much as one. Smooth cocking and pleasant shot cycle when set up for an appropriate weight pellet, but did i mention they are heavy?!?! Why Weihrauch has never offered a smaller package with the HE power plant system is beyond me. While all the competition is leaning to the nitro strut system, they could have been ahead of the curve with an HW30/HW50 sized offering using the HE system which gives the shooter endless possibilities to adjust the power output to their own personal tastes. Theoben did make a rifle named the Fenmen which I have heard about which is smaller and lower powered, but you’d be hard pressed to find one without shelling out a pretty penny. The HW90 is a great rifle and the ‘Elite’ trigger is pretty dang good too.
That's why I bought the Theoben Sirocco Deluxe. I wanted a rifle. Not an anchor. Never had any desire to own one of the heavy ones. More rare than a Fenman. And a Fenman is pretty rare in the US. The Sirocco D is a keeper. Better trigger than all the later Theobens. Had it about 35 years. Never hold sensitive. Nice size to carry around too
Although the Sirocco is nice, it is not realistic to compare that gun to the others since it is so rare to acquire. Believe I have one, but they were rare as hen's teeth even 20 years ago. Remember that the FAC version is around 20FPE in .22.
If I could compare the three triggers, they would be in this order:
1. Rekord
2. Webley
3. Evolution
I distinctly remember the Webley had a ton of travel in it.
Looking back now, the Eliminator and HW90's are a fantastic training rifles for today's big bore slug guns. Once you've mastered the magnum gas ram guns, you can shoot anything.
i think it's the Sirocco Classic makes 20. And rare as rocking horse dung in the US. The Deluxe I believe tops out at 17. I had the conversation with Davis from ARS recently.
But yeah, you wont find any available anyway
Are you referring to the Webley Omega based trigger in all the early Theoben rammers? Eliminator included? Excepting the of course the earliest Countryman and Siroccos that had BSA Meteor triggers. It's nearly on par with the Rekords and the Webley trigger in my Tomahawks. An excellent trigger
Sorry if I'm taking the thread in another direction. My earlier point was regarding the heft of the 90 and Eli's. I just don't care for hefty guns that much. Even though at 61 I am in far better condition and strength than most 1/2 my age. Bench shooting is only 1/2 the fun.
Yes, the omega webley based triggers. I have a couple on two early eliminators too. They are better than the evolution triggers, that is for sure.
Had a countryman for a while. Sold because the front sight was a one piece and interfered with the scope. That was basically a 17FPE R-9. Do not remember the trigger pull.
I never had an issue with the weight, but I know that for most people, a gun that weighs nearly 10lbs. with a scope is not comfortable to carry in the field all day. Out of the Theobens, I think the dual magnum weighs the heaviest - about 10.5lbs. with a B&L 4200 6-24x40mm scope.
If you want your marksmanship skills to stay current, have a HW90 & eliminator in your hunting gun rotation. It is quite the experience going from a PCP - even shocking - if you haven't shot the gas ram in a while.
You're correct that the 90 is a big springer. I have several lighter ones when it gets too heavy LOL I did have a MK4 Eliminator that I sold many years ago which is why I appreciate Sonny and Jim's no nonsense opinion between the 2. The 2 biggest deciding factors were the better trigger & the 90 is also a very long and current running production model, so parts/kits are easily obtained. I'm confident that I could work on an Eliminator however, now that Sonny has unlocked its secrets.
The .22 I mentioned above chronied out at:
Created: 07/25/21 04:37 PM
Description: HW 90 .22
Notes 1: Crosman Premier 14.3 gn
Notes 2:
Distance to Chrono(FT): 1.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.022
Bullet Weight(gr): 14.30
Temp: 86 °F
BP: 1013.10 inHg
Altitude: 833.00
# FPS FT-LBS PF
10 788 19.72 11.27
9 790 19.82 11.30
8 788 19.72 11.27
7 790 19.82 11.30
6 788 19.72 11.27
5 781 19.37 11.17
4 792 19.92 11.33
3 793 19.97 11.34
2 787 19.67 11.25
1 786 19.62 11.24
Average: 788.3 FPS
SD: 3.4 FPS
Min: 781 FPS
Max: 793 FPS
Spread: 12 FPS
Shot/sec: 0.1
True MV: 791 FPS
Group Size (in): 0.00
I have around 35 different pellet types in .22 so it would take forever to try them all. The Crosman Premier tin can 14.3 gns look pretty good though. The previous owner may have let some air out but it cocks slightly easier than the UK Kodiak I also bought at the show. The .20 90 will be here next week. Not sure if it will be any more beneficial than the .22 given similar pellet weights, unless it likes the FTT's. That set up would shoot pretty flat. I bought the pump kit. I like the idea that the gage is inline as you pump with this one rather than losing spurts of air with the stand alone gage. Otherwise I would have simply went with the pump and chrony method. Price for kit wasn't bad at all but got raped on the shipping and didn't even get a kiss.
Mike Abernethy had 5 Sirroco's at the Columbus airgun show. You can see one of them in this pic next to the stock I bought from him
I think the Fenman would be harder to find and seems to command a higher price than the Evolution. I saw neither here or at Findlay. Never shot a 12 fpe ram before. From all that I've read, the SLR88 would be my holy grail of Theobens. Try to find that one LOL
As far as weight goes, I think the standard carbine Beeman R10 that I built will be a nice carry arounder'. It shoots pretty tight at 16 fpe.
As for a 12 fpe gun, I have 2 50's. the .177 will probably be favored over the .20 though both perform quite well.
They both have 3x9 EFR's on them now.
Still wouldn't mind shooting a Theoben Evo though ?
