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Dieseling.


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(@blowgun)
Joined: 2 months ago
Posts: 38
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Can dieseling damage the barrel of an air rifle? I can't help it but the concept of dieseling gives me an idea, that I probably shouldn't go through with.


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(@marflow)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 1127
 

no but it could break the spring and don't even think about doing it, you won't like the outcome


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(@blowgun)
Joined: 2 months ago
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@marflow.  Marflow, that makes me twice as curious! What actually is the outcome that I'll so greatly dislike?


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Doug Wall
(@doug-wall)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 186
 

It can blow out piston seals, break springs, and in severe cases, I've heard of it actually blowing the end plug out of the compression tube. Don't do it!

 


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Gratewhitehuntr
(@gratewhitehuntr)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 1121
 

Ruin't a seal with the quickness.

Based on the necropsy, I'm not sure there is any acceptable level of dieseling with polymer seals.

https://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/George-Costanza-Yelling-I-Was-in-the-Pool-Seinfeld.gif

 

Why I didn't think to sacrifice this seal at the altar of the chronograph? No idea.

Hmm... now I'm thinking... which fuel is hottest? Which gun is easiest to change seals?

We're gonna need a volunteer from the audience...


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(@blowgun)
Joined: 2 months ago
Posts: 38
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My dreams of taking a cape buffalo with my springer are dashed lol.


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Frank in Fairfield
(@frank-in-fairfield)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 182
 

Every, repeat, every springer needs a little dieseling.

What you do not want is combustion.

There are stories (you don’t want to know) about young boys pouring a can of three-in-one oil into the barrel of the Daisy rifles.

For about 4-5 shots the outcome achieved the intended purpose:

More noise and some speed.

But, those pressed metal and plastic rifles could only take so much.

The last time....BOOM!

Pieces everywhere, including some stuck in the arms of the shooter.

Modern springers require very little oil in the combustion chamber and my rifles received 1-2 drops every 500 shots. Period. 

Yes the first shot might be a little smokey and a might louder than normal. After that shot the noise will go away and the smoke will lessen.

The smoke from the dieseling is very apparent when shooting indoors.

Remember 1-2 drops in the chamber after 500 shots..

And spread it around by cocking and un-cocking the arm withe the rifle held in various positions..

Stay safe


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Gratewhitehuntr
(@gratewhitehuntr)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 1121
 

Diesel (Noun)

A type of internal-combustion engine that burns fuel oil: the ignition is brought about by heat resulting from air compression, instead of by an electric spark as in a gasoline engine.

Diesel (Verb)

To ignite a substance by using the heat generated by compression


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Doug Wall
(@doug-wall)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 186
 
Posted by: @frank-in-fairfield

Every, repeat, every springer needs a little dieseling.

What you do not want is combustion.

There are stories (you don’t want to know) about young boys pouring a can of three-in-one oil into the barrel of the Daisy rifles.

For about 4-5 shots the outcome achieved the intended purpose:

More noise and some speed.

But, those pressed metal and plastic rifles could only take so much.

The last time....BOOM!

Pieces everywhere, including some stuck in the arms of the shooter.

Modern springers require very little oil in the combustion chamber and my rifles received 1-2 drops every 500 shots. Period. 

Yes the first shot might be a little smokey and a might louder than normal. After that shot the noise will go away and the smoke will lessen.

The smoke from the dieseling is very apparent when shooting indoors.

Remember 1-2 drops in the chamber after 500 shots..

And spread it around by cocking and un-cocking the arm withe the rifle held in various positions..

Stay safe

Frank,

You've got it backwards. Combustion is the quiet consumption of lubricant. Dieseling is the detonation part of it. Diesel engines don't do what they do quietly! As far as putting oil in the COMPRESSION  (not combustion) cylinder goes, I haven't put any in since I converted my last leather sealed gun to a synthetic seal, about 25 years ago. Properly lubricated modern guns don't need any oil in the cylinder!

 


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Gratewhitehuntr
(@gratewhitehuntr)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 1121
 

Cunningham's Law has entered the chat...


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Frank in Fairfield
(@frank-in-fairfield)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 182
 

So “Properly Lubricated” does not mean oil?

Oh, yeah you are right.

Use Vaseline or KY3!


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straitflite
(@straitflite)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 464
 

 

2 cycle would be the best of both worlds....


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Doug Wall
(@doug-wall)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 186
 
Posted by: @frank-in-fairfield

So “Properly Lubricated” does not mean oil?

Oh, yeah you are right.

Use Vaseline or KY3!

That would depend on where you are planning on putting your guns.

In the springer world, properly lubricated means a thin film of a moly grease, or Krytox around the sides of the piston seal. It lasts for thousands of shots, with no dieseling, or any need for any oil in the compression tube.

 


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Gratewhitehuntr
(@gratewhitehuntr)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 1121
 

I once put KY in a suppressor.

It worked well enough, wetness wise, but caused some rust on the gun.


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(@hector-j-medina-g)
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Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 598
 

MANY years ago, with the help of a great chemist, and an excellent airgunner, we conducted some controlled tests to see if the shortcomings of the Barakuda design could be overcome.

So, we took a very robust Mendoza 800 action, created a bronze faced piston, and loaded the pellet skirts with "soaps"

For those that are not familiar with how soap is made, it is basically a grease/fat that has been made to react with a strong alkali.

In the same way you can make soaps out of olive oil, or almond oil, or jojoba oil, for "beauty" purposes, you can make soaps out of any hydrocarbon.
The very common in the old days "lithium grease" was, in reality, a soap.

So, we conducted controlled tests with different bases and different "oxigenants".

We got VERY mixed results, from the exteremely violent piston bounce that even re-cocked the action, to the more subtle "addition of energy" to an already powerful airgun.

We DID NOT achieve anything that had not been achieved before in the Daisy V/L system and we concluded that the small gain achieved in the region where the controllability and accuracy were still usable, meritted the action, cost, reduced life of components, and effort.

From those same experiments, we concluded what was the RANGE of pressures and temperatures that existed at the moment of ignition in the compression chamber, numbers that have been validated recently by calculation from the energy balance side, as well as from chemical kinetics.

BEYOND the experimental phases, the truth is that there was a strong reason for the V/L system to die.

PERHAPS now a days, with better materials, tolerances, and technologies it could be better implemented, but with the current prices of stuff, I would not see the advantage.

We now have the knowledge to make AIR guns yield 23-24 ft-lbs without any "dieseling", simply by using basic physics.

So,IMHO,  there is no NEED for it.

You can use it, at the expense of reduced life in the spring and seals.

As usual, it's up to each one to decide what they want to do with THEIR stuff.

HTH, keep well and shoot straight!

 

 

 

 

 

HM

 


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Gratewhitehuntr
(@gratewhitehuntr)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 1121
 

Best soap I ever made was bacon/ham grease with pumice. Omit pumice for use on hair 😉

Don't put the pernil fat, that goes mineral spirits, for the lathe.

I don't understand the current obsession with superfatted (greasy) soaps. You're not clean, tub/shower is a mess, bad for the septic.

Gimme a bar of Zote.

 

Use of lithium in batteries has raised the price, as a result, lithium in grease has largely been replaced by calcium sulfonate.


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