Eight generations of an old favorite. Thanks to a generous friend, i just acquired the "Winchester 427" which was an important missing link, historically speaking.
Top to bottom:
+ Pre-war "Millita" style quarter-stocked model 27. This one from 1926. Guns like this were made from before WW1 to the 30's.
+ "DRP" 27, totally revised gun made in the Nazi era. Beautiful tapered barrel, walnut stock, has a fantastic striker-type 2-stage trigger that can be dry-fired.
+ Milbro 27, made after WW2 on pre-war German machinery that was purchased and moved to Lanarkshire, Scotland. Mechanically identical to pre-war gun, including the crazy good trigger, but not as well finished, and in a very English-looking beech stock. This one stamped 1952.
+ First-generation post-war German model 27, also from the 50's. Slab-sided, finger-groove beech stock, first-gen "ball-sear" trigger with nice solid alloy blade, still with simple pre-war-type fixed front and slider rear sights. This one with a "Hy-Score" medallion in the stock.
+ A transitional model. Re-designed, more rounded stock, tunnel-type front sight, plastic trigger blade, but retains finger grooves and slider rear sight. First one to add the scope/sight rail. Probably the rarest variation of my post-war 27's.
+ The 427...! Same basic gun as previous, but ditches finger grooves and adds the famous red rubber butt button. Stamped steel trigger blade, hugely improved click-adjusting metal/plastic rear sight. Typical production standard for late 60's/early 70's model 27's. ("Winchester" guns were made from about '68 to '75).
+ An RWS model 27 from 1980. Very similar to previous, but has gained a superb all-metal rear sight. This was the final production standard for the classic model 27, which went OOP in '83.
+ Model 27S. From the late 70's, both action and stock significantly re-styled (real butt pad at last!) to compete with the HW's of the day. Has a Walther-type auto safety blocking the trigger when the action is open, and a double-pivot cocking linkage. Really nice rifle but was too pricey...out-lived in the market by the previous version.
I agree, that's a beautiful collection. Very well cared for, museum grade condition. I have a model 26 that I purchased new in 1986. It's a sweet shooter and never been tuned or disassembled. I purchased a new spring and piston seal from Macari a year ago but I've yet to install it.
Mike,
Very nice anthology. I think I recognize the Milbro! I've had a few 27s over the years, and I'm a little ashamed to say I don't currently own one. My favorite version is the later butt-pimple with the 3-ball. IIRC, it had the ribbed rail for the match sight, but would also accept a scope of appropriate size and weight. As has been said before, these guns seem to hit the perfect balance between power, weight, cocking effort, and firing behavior.
If you've never shot one, you should! They are just about EXACTLY what a spring rifle should be.
Thank you. Really nice 27 display. It's hard to find them before they got beat up. They're from the American era when pellet guns were kid's guns. No urban sprawl yet You could shoot your .22RF anywhere and everywhere. The early forearms have a nice sleek profile. DRP, Milbro. I really like that. The 27S has a trigger guard like a 50 TO1. Not my favorite. I do like the stock on the 27S. Does not have the "different" style checkering as on the 45 and 50 TO1. The 50 TO1 wasn't the most popular either. I have one. Between the trigger guard, checkering, and the long and unattractive underlever. I think Diana made some styling errors.
My 27 is like your transitional model but does not have a plastic trigger. No scope rail. Only a few little marks on it. I don't get the chance to shoot it enough.
Lol! It's smallmouth bass fishing weather right now. Susquehanna R. bass fishing is awesome this year. Walleyes will be at the dam soon. Lasts into December
Mike, I got my .177 27 out and fiddled with it some. I never shot it much but thought the adjustable trigger should offer something better than it was providing. After removing the stock for the first time I realized one screw is a clever thread lock for the adjustment screw. The adjustment screw isn't readily obvious as to proper setting. After carefully studying it's actuation I realized it has to be adjusted just right to find it's sweet spot. Like some other two stage triggers. Like adjusting a Beeman P17 if you know how that trigger works. Also brings to mind the gold Gamo replacement triggers. The trigger spring is a little stiff but after correct adjustment the release is very crisp. Nice trigger. I can see how many owners would never know what the trigger is capable of. I'll try to get some pictures taken over the weekend for you to see it.
As I remember, the gentleman I bought the 27 from mentioned that it doesn't have the original trigger. Perhaps it had the alloy trigger originally. Now it's a stamped version?. No scope mount yet it does have a dovetail front sight. I'll get around to taking some pictures. Posting pictures is a little laborious for me I don't use the phone/camera for going online. My fingers are too big and the screen is too small.
I use my phone for phone calls! If a phone won't fit in my shirt pocket I don't want it. All my work/fun shirts have button pockets.
KWK, you are correct. The trigger adjustment on the famous Diana "ball-sear" trigger - used for many years on the models 25D, 27, 35, and 50 - serves only to locate the transition point between the first and second stages (the end of the screw contacts the underside of the trigger assembly, and this acts as a secondary fulcrum point that adds weight to the second stage of the pull). You cannot adjust the pull weight per se. In other words, if the second stage feels short and crisp...stop fooling with it, LOL.
You are also correct about the locking screw - its only function is to keep the true adjuster from working loose. Interestingly, the guns that used plastic triggers in the '60's omitted the locking screw; the friction of the adjuster screw against the plastic rendered it superfluous.
To me this trigger is an ingenious design, constructed from simple, non hand-fitted parts, but giving an excellent pull.
For anyone who is interested...this old post of mine shows some additional details of these classic little rifles (note, this shows a different example of the "Winchester 427" that I no longer own, and some of the guns shown above had not been found yet!).
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/americanvintageairguns/diana-27-s-talking-to-the-dolls-t4916.html
This is a long thread that has some my pics trashed by Photobucket, but also a lot of great photos posted by other folks.
Mike, here is my 27 .177 cal. If I remember correctly it does not have the original trigger blade. Perhaps it was a plastic one? Only light scratches on it. Easy one to refinish when I get to it. The blue is very good. I can't really shoot it well I need a scope now. I might epoxy on a little dovetail to enable me to mount a sport aperture sight. I got the trigger adjusted soo nice. You just have to take your time and "find it". Same as an FWB 124, P17, gold Gamo triggers, and some others. Neat little rifle but unfortunately doesn't fit me well as my ape hands are far too big for the little pistol grip. Sweet shooter
KWK, thanks for posting! A very interesting example.
I would guess that the original trigger was a plastic one that gave up the ghost! But yours has the first post-war slab-sided stock, so the alloy trigger is also possible.
One thing I should have mentioned in my original post was the change in breech design. Guns that look like this (little flats on top of the breech jaws and breech bolt with two recesses) have a stout wedge detent lock. Your gun is like this I think.
And guns that look like this (breech block flush with jaws, and more adjustable bolt with ten recesses) have a ball-bearing detent.
Which I mention because I've never seen a 27 that combines: early-style stock, breech assembly, no scope rail, and stamped rear sight; with the late-style tunnel front sight and trigger like yours! Truly the variations in these nifty little rifles are endless, LOL.
If we assume a linear evolution of these details (by no means certain; I suspect there were production batches where Diana simply used up older parts)...I would guess that time-wise, it fits between the fourth and fifth guns - counting down from the top - in my photo above.
One curious detail of the post-war German model 27, is how close the trigger is to the grip. The early post-war stock design closely follows the profile shape of the pre-war stock (which dictated the grip location), and they may have actually used pre-war receiver tubes to start. But the ball-sear trigger blade sits much farther aft than the pre-war striker-type one, which creates this odd feature. As you noted, this can be an issue for folks with big hands, but my scrawny paws can work this out thanks to the nice rounded grip, LOL...
I have my model 27 trigger dialed in pretty well. Light first stage and a short 2nd stage just like its supposed to be. My model 35 is a diff story. I cannot seem to get it to behave like a 2 stage. The trigger is much like the 2nd stage of my D27 meaning no first stage all through the adjustment range. Any ideas?
Should adjust same as your 27. Tom Gaylord's explanation is here https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2017/09/the-diana-27-part-2/
This post is Mike's https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/yellow/diana-mod-50-how-to-adjust-trigger-t187601.html
I adjusted my 27's trigger a few weeks ago and am very impressed by it. There is a 2 stage sweet spot in there. You have to be patient to find it. You likely adjusted right past it. 1/4 turn increments until you get in the ballpark. A full turn at a time could likely skip over it. You're not adjusting sear engagement. It's more like tuning to the point that the springs in the mechanism work together. Balance point. That's why trying to install lighter springs isn't helpful. The rear spring is pretty stiff and some might be tempted to exchange it for a lighter one. Don't. Adjusting the FWB 124 is similar. All the way in is no good and all the way out isn't either. Both ways give you a creepy trigger. That balance point is somewhere in betweenst
Good luck, I hope it works for you
KWK's description and my old post linked just above describe it fairly well. The thing you adjust, is where the end of the adjustment screw contacts the underside of the receiver; when this happens it forms a new fulcrum point that creates the heavier second stage pull.
The adjuster screw has such a large range of adjustment, though, that it's possible to defeat the system on either end! If it's turned out too far, the trigger will release before it contacts the receiver - I.e. no second stage. if it's turned in too far, you start out with it touching the receiver - I.e. all second stage.
From your description, I'd start by turning the screw out in small increments and see what happens...
Bringing back an old thread. I didn't think my question really warrants a new thread.
Anyway, I recently inherited a Mod 27 (.177) with a rear sight like the one in the photo above. The gun was shooting low and to the right. Turns out the the long flat part of the sight was bent. I removed it and flattened it out. That should correct my shooting low. Shooting to the right (about 4-5" @ about 20-25 yds) is another matter. Turns out the sight is set in the barrel offset a bit to the right in the dovetail.
Looking over what I could see, I couldn't find a simple way to correct this. I could try to tap it with a brass hammer, but before doing anything like that I wanted to ask how this is supposed to be adjusted. Being mounted offset to the right would certainly account for shooting right. I'd just like to fix this without doing something stupid that I shouldn't be trying.
Thanks for any help.
George Roffe
Willis, Texas
PS: if there is another thread I should reference, please let me know. I did some searching on the Internet this thread seemed the most promising.
Yes, those sights are a bit fragile. The thin metal unit on top of a heavy-ish gun is asking for trouble, you often see them bent up as you described.
The dovetail itself is stout enough though. Clamp it up and hit it directly with a brass punch or similar, of course - don't whack the sheet metal bits.
I have one of these that I use for fine-tuning lateral dovetail sights. With a little leather padding in the right places, it works really well, better than a hammer.
https://www.harborfreight.com/heavy-duty-chain-breaker-66488.html
Very nice Mike.
Can't say I have had the honors of shooting the model 27, but that Pre-war "Millita" style 27 sure does raise my eyebrow. Looks like the old BSA, both of which are beautiful rifles. Look forward to shooting / owning such a specimen one day. Happy for you Mike!
Cheers
Sorry for the slow response here. Was fighting Omicron (now negative). Anyway, here is an obligatory pic. I soaked the dovetail with Aerokroil and was able to make some adjustments with a small plastic tipped hammer, tapping directly on the sight base. I should have taken a pic of the target. Anyway, I went from being low and to the right by 4-6" to within 2" at 25 yds. I have to practice a bit more now that I'm healthy and it's warmer.
I'm going out of town for a week, but when I get back I'll have to post a pic of the target. It looks like the pellets are tumbling horizontally. They are consistent though. The pellets I have right now are flat tipped, and perhaps that is affecting things.
Thanks for all the help.
George