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Diana 430 L is stateside

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Mike_Ellingsworth
(@mike_ellingsworth)
Montana
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 247
Topic starter  

Just noticed the Diana 430 L  is  now  at the vendor we don't mention, not a bad price either, mine came from Krale  it was the last  one , 

https://www.airgunsofarizona.com/spring-piston/diana-model-430l-combo-.177/


   
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straitflite
(@straitflite)
Ohio
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 764
 

vendor we don't mention

Genuinely curious; Why not? I'm just getting back in the game and I have noticed very good pricing on several Weihrachs at XXX vs. PA's pricing. I don't intend to bash but how else can we get input on buying these expensive toys? Are they grey market (Krale included)? Is the dealer questionable? Always looking for knowledge on where best to buy. We should have each others back here. Thanks in advance!


   
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(@hector_j_medina_g)
Maryland
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And if you consider that it includes a ZR Mount, then it's quite the offer.

Scope may be "disposable" if you are into substantially better optics, but the mount will surely help anyone.

😉

 

 

HM


   
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(@jim_in_pgh)
Pennsylvania
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 1015
 

Hector, what do you know about the Diana 280?  Looks to me like a sweetheart 12ftlb gun that MIGHT sell well in the US market, given the fact that power guys are all going pcp, and springer guys seem to be gravitating to HW 30's and 50's.

Can you tell me if the current 280 has the same diameter compression tube as the 34?  I used to own a narrow-tube Diana 28, which was one of the best spring rifles I've ever shot.  I know that the 28 was re-released as a de-stroked version of the 34 powerplant.  Not a bad gun, but not as sweet as the small-bore 26/28 powerplant.

I have a brother who lives in Europe, so I possibly could buy a current  Euro-market Diana.


   
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(@hector_j_medina_g)
Maryland
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Dear Jim:

Perhaps it would be wise to start with what it is NOT, LOL!

The 280 is NOT in the same power level as the HW30. For that you would have to go to the 240.

The 280 is about 3" shorter than the 340, so, about 3/4''s the compression chamber.

The older slim compression chamber guns were good, but they definitely cannot reach the stability of MV's at different temperatures and altitudes that a larger compression chamber can. Now, not everyone NEEDS that. Hopefully, in a few (2-3) years, we will be able to specify as customers what we want in our airguns, but until that day comes (if the system is successful), we're better off having models that are more "universal" in appeal, than having that ONE PERFECT model that only a few buy and gets discontinued.

In a very GENERAL way, you could say that the performance of the HW50 and the 280 are about on par for the weight. So, if you are looking for a light gun to shoot all day, go for it. Just be aware that the gun is light. Even at 12 ft-lbs, you WILL need to be in your best form to get the most out of it.

If you are looking for a gun for a youngster, you may be better off going to the 240.

The BULK of the US market is made of occasional shooters, so importing a bunch of 280's or 240's might not be in the best interest of the importer. Not that it cannot be done. It just takes a small group buy.

The 280 sells in Europe for about €300, the 240 for about half that.

The OAL of the 280 is 1090 mm's (43"), weight is 3.5 kg (7.7 #)

The OAL of the 240 is 1060mm's (41 3/4"), weight is 2.7 kg (5.9 #)

The 280 will TOP at around 6 ft-lbs, the 280 will top at around 12 ft-lbs.

There is a good video review from Herr Hoffer (AirGhandi) here:

 

I am sure your brother knows about Waffen Frankonia, but IF there is interest (at least 10), we might be able to import a case if all the guns are "spoken" for in advance.

Now, trying to return this thread to its original intent, I have purchased a 430L from AoA as a "common user"

¿Why?  because it's the only way I can ensure that the gun I get will not be "specially selected". We'll see how the "shooting in" goes and then I'll try to make a blog entry.

I have high hopes about the 430L, I know the people that drummed it up, and they are good technicians with plenty of REAL ON HANDS experience; having put together and tested hundreds, if not thousands, of guns. No engineering degrees there, no fancy "Herr Doktor" titles, just plain, hard-working, common sense, persons.

Yes, it is going to be an interesting experience.

😉

Keep well  and shoot straight!

 

 

 

 

HM


   
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JohnL
(@johnl)
California
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 92
 

So-Mike,

How do you like your 430? I have to admit that deal has my attention. I'd love some feedback from an owner. Is the weight comparable to the high-powered 460 or is it (I hope) a bit lighter? 

Thanks,

John


   
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(@hector_j_medina_g)
Maryland
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Joined: 7 years ago
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An "unboxing" / short look into the Diana 430L:

https://www.ctcustomairguns.com/hectors-airgun-blog/the-diana-430l

Hope you enjoy!

 

 

HM


   
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(@jim_in_pgh)
Pennsylvania
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 1015
 

Nice report Hector.  I must admit I am intrigued with this gun.  The AoA price is EXTREMELY tempting.  I used to own a 25mm full-length HW77, and I kick myself every time I remember I sold it.  Looking forward to more reports!


   
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Mike_Ellingsworth
(@mike_ellingsworth)
Montana
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 247
Topic starter  

Well Hector did a fantastic job  of continuing  on  with the interest of the rifle.

I was  surprised  by the weight  because I thought it was  going  to be lighter  than the 460 and the 460 always felt remarkably light  for a underlever. I have  nothing more to contribute, I work five days a week and I am tied down to a ton  of air gun related things I am in the middle of, including a shop renovation, 

So to see the thread carry  on in such a beautiful fashion is awesome, I dont know how  some  guys do it  but  for 299. with scope goodies I could not hold  myself back from buying one, I am a buy it to find it out myself guy I  dont hesitate much, but  thats me, also to many gun and no time  to shoot comes  with the territory, I have , no regrets it is what it is. I like  the gun power level & looks & feel alone are really nice

Mine will need to be gone over, it  will have to wait its turn though. take  note on what hector mentioned on the shooting and cleaning procedure , can't wait till continued post come up Its  very enjoyable ? 


   
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(@functor)
North Carolina
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 63
 

I will add a bit to Hector's excellent report. I too ordered the 430 L on the sale. Received it yesterday and shot about 200 times but no group test ( too dark to shoot at my 35 yards range). 

1. Surprisingly I did not get the model with the muzzlebrake that Hector got, and indeed what was pictured on the AOA site-- I got one with plastic open sights, though thankfully not the ghastly fibre optic sights. I like open sights on rifles, so I actually like this, but AOA should make it clear they have two different models.

2. The cocking effort is unbelievably stiff. There is a last stage to cocking and that is so stiff I have to use both hands. I don't lift weights, but I am six feet tall and fairly strong, and I can cock my HW77 ( 12 fpe) and my full power R1 with my left hand.  Hector wrote it wasn't meant to be an all day plinking gun but I am not sure why should a 12 fpe gun take so much effort to cock, and what is the intended role of a 12 fpe spring gun. 

3. The gun is supplied with a a very complicated-- and very sophisticated!-- looking spring loaded mount and a  scope which is a cousin of the Leapers/ UTG 3-9X 32 and decent for its class. 

BUT, whoever decided to put the scope on that mount on that gun omitted to notice that the stock is very strictly designed for iron sights, and to worsen the problem the scope mount is unusually tall making a cheek weld anatomically impossible and even a chin weld quite a questionable proposition. 

4. I promptly took off the sci fi mount and scope and proceeded to shoot standing with the open sights indoors. Had a proper cheekweld. The trigger has definite travel in the second stage, sort of a rolling release. It is not creep in the sense it's unpredictable, but it's not a very crisp trigger. 

However I did shoot some very nice clusters. I think to do justice to the true potential of the gun I need to shoot at least 500 rounds and get used to the trigger release. 

The 430(without the scope and mount) balances 4.5" ahead of the trigger guard, so it's got the typical underlever spring gun balance( my HW77 with a Clearidge 3-9 balances also 4.5-5 " ahead of the trigger guard)  which I think aids in shooting standing. The stock is slimmer than the HW77, everything is a bit more svelte. 

Jim, don't get the 430 if you want something to replace a 25mm HW77. It simply does not compare. Not the cocking effort, nor the finish ( the 430 has typical Diana functionality with a unfinished marks in the inside of the stock, a very agricultural lever catch etc.), and certainly not the trigger-- I don't know whether it's TO6, but it's not comparable to a Rekord. (BTW, I think you were the one who recommended that I buy a 25mm HW77 in the old Yellow in response to a question I posed, and I am eternally grateful to you for that suggestion!) 

Over all am I happy with the purchase? I suppose for the price I am. I got a $60 space age mount that fascinates me but I am not sure I have use for it, and I got a decent $50 scope, which means I got the gun, with open sights, for $200 and for that price it's absolutely worth it. But it is not in the same league as the HW77 and if it is priced even comparable to the 77/ 97 then the 430 is a very distant second. 

In conclusion, the things I like,

a) relatively lighter than HW77/97. Has a handier feel. Not the best for target shooting, but certainly more maneuverable.

b) Fairly nice shot cycle, and easy to shoot. It does make a strange honking noise-- if that makes sense-- but otherwise very nice, quick shot cycle. There's a little vibration but not unmanageable. 

c) The open sights! I really wanted to keep a simple springer very similar to what I grew up with. I wish they were iron sights quite literally, but the plastic sights are good and the adjustments repeatable. 

d) The trigger, though a bit mushy, is predictable. That's a good start and actually it's quite usable.

Does anyone know how I can adjust the travel out of the second stage? The manual shows only one screw and that apparently controls the length of the first stage travel. 

I think the biggest shortcoming of this otherwise quite utilitarian underlever, is that for the power it has an unbelievably stout cocking effort. That is not a very good design and unless one relishes a workout-- and there are better ways of getting that-- the pleasure of shooting a 12 fpe springer is seriously compromised by that cocking effort. 


   
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Limbshaker
(@limbshaker)
Alabama
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 228
 

I've been out of the airgun news circle fora little while, and this is the first I have seen of this. Thanks for the great review! Sounds like it could be a real nice rifle with a little bit of exploratory tinkering. 

I think there is definitely a place in the airgun world of a slightly lighter and smaller HW77K. If any funds get freed up I'd like to have one and see what I could make of it.  


   
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(@hector_j_medina_g)
Maryland
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@functor

Hello Functor!

Thanks for your kind words.

1.- I am sorry that you got a 430 and not a 430L as advertised. I am sure you can get it replaced if you call AoA.

Now, if you really like iron sights, and you are used to shooting with both eyes open, then you should probably think about this conversion:

 And for the rear sight:

BTW, if you wanted a ramp for the front sight in case you got a 430L, that can also be arranged, Williams makes nice ramps. And then a peep rear could complement it.

2.- The arab proverb is that it is the last straw the one that breaks the camel's back. Same thing with airguns, you can get used to cocking 37 #, going to 45# is a whole different world.

SOME of the cocking effort, as you rightly note, comes for actioning the sear/trigger to set. That will get smoother over time, you can also polish all the internals (from the cocking button on the piston stem to the trigger parts and you will lose a lb. or two of that last stretch.

3.- Yes, your stock was designed for iron sights, the 430L stock was designed for scope usage (mind you, it is never a good idea in a recoiling springer to design a stock for solid cheek welds, so there is some room there if you want use a cheekpad), mainly with medium-light scopes. It is definitely not designed for the 60 and 75 mm's objectives of a FT gun.

4.- All 430 and 430 L have the T-06 trigger.

The simplest way of adjusting that trigger is to back out the second screw (farthest from the muzzle) by 1/8  turns until the letoff is crisp. And believe me it can be made REAL crisp. In SOME rifles, you will note a "hump", where it seems like the trigger is going to letoff, but it doesn't, personally I like this "third stage" because it gives me one last chance of getting my sight picture and hold right before letting the shot fly, but not everyone likes it.

If that is your case, then you need to file and stone the "upper sear lever" till you get a smooth surface, then you can adjust to a more normal two stage trigger.

You can also change the spring but that requires a little bit more knowledge because some springs (pen springs, specially) can be unsafe.

So, you have the choice: Keep the old style 430, or request a change for the 430L

And yes, the MAIN difference between them is the extra 8# of cocking force.

Keep us posted!

 

 

 

 

HM


   
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(@functor)
North Carolina
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 63
 

@hector-j-medina-g

Hector, thank you for taking the time to write such a detailed response. I have always enjoyed reading your posts and your blog for valuable insights, and even though most of the technical reports you do are far beyond my mechanical skills, I enjoy the systematic scientific approach to analysis and solving that you follow. BTW, probably five or six years ago in response to some post, you advised me to take up pistol shooting to improve my trigger control--  it was one of the best bits of advice to polish my shooting technique. Also found out just how difficult, frustrating and ultimately rewarding spring pistol shooting can be. 

I think I will keep the 430L and get used to its cocking. I have no intention of mounting anything more than a 32mm scope on low mounts on this. In general I don't like scopes that have too large an objective for ergonomic reasons and on springers, I particularly dislike raising the centre of gravity too high. I will try to break the gun in with the open sights. I am travelling and don't have the gun for reference, but I am pretty sure the front sight doesn't have a dovetail, but rather is integral to the lever lock block much like old HW77s.

However that doesn't really detract much from the intended purpose of the gun-- I think it's very much a offhand shooter in the old fashioned way and can do with a simple fixed front sight post. However if I stay with irons, I will replace the rear sight with an aperture sight to have a longer sight radius and to help my eyes.

I will have to fiddle with the trigger as long as turning screws is all that's involved. I think I will stay away from stoning any sear surfaces-- that sort of thing should be left to people like you who know exactly what they're doing and capable of doing it right! 

Thanks for all the help. I will probably post again asking for guidance once I get used to the gun a bit more. 


   
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(@hector_j_medina_g)
Maryland
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Joined: 7 years ago
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Well, 

We are glad to be of assistance whenever the need arises. I am glad you took up pistol shooting, yes it is punishing (in a good way), and that is what makes it good training.

BTW, the 430 front sight shown in the picture is already modified. The "fat" front post was milled off and a dovetail cross cut to install a Williams Firesight  (REALLY small fiber optic).

Anyway, keep well and shoot straight!

 

 

HM


   
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(@hector_j_medina_g)
Maryland
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Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 1292
 

First shots with the 430L:

https://www.ctcustomairguns.com/hectors-airgun-blog/the-diana-430l-second-entry  

Hope you enjoy!

 

 

 

 

HM


   
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Mike_Ellingsworth
(@mike_ellingsworth)
Montana
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 247
Topic starter  

I am totally enjoying the follow up post & info  you been doing.

Mike E


   
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(@hector_j_medina_g)
Maryland
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Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 1292
 

Forgot to post this yesterday:

https://www.ctcustomairguns.com/hectors-airgun-blog/the-diana-430l-third-and-last-entry-of-an-oem-gun

Sorry!

😉

 

 

 

HM


   
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(@donc)
Illinois
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 442
 

Great stuff Hector. Thank You


   
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