Hello!
I wanted to see if I can get some feedback before I drop some coin on another rifle. A little background - I had placed an order with AirForce for a new RAW HM1000x LRT .25 last month. Up until this morning, they stated the in stock ETA was showing to be 3/31/2019. Last Friday, I got an email late in the afternoon from them saying my rifle would be ready to ship in 3-4 WEEKS, asking if I still wanted to keep my FedEx overnight shipping.
They didn't state anything on the site to the fact that they were building them to order (like I read from their PR guy on agn in an announcement earlier today), and I'm not one to drop $2200 for a rifle that isn't built (no offense to those who do). I'm cancelling my order and looking for a comparable powered .25.
My joy in shooting is longer range. Anything over 100y is good, 200+ is great. I definitely want to stick with .25, regulated and quality being the biggest factors. The one that is drawing the most attention to me right now is the Daystate Wolverine 2 HP. The only downsides that I'm seeing are:
- Dovetail up top
- No rail nor sling swivel
I'd be doing 98% of my shooting prone or from a bench / tables, so I'd have to drill into it. I'm not afraid of that prospect, as long as there's enough meat in the fore-grip area (without jeopardizing the strength over longer term).
Beyond this rifle and the RAW, I'm not real stoked about too many others in the category. Aside from cost, does anyone have anything negative to say about the Wolverine 2's?
Thanks!
RAWS historically require a long wait time FYI...
HA
They definitely tricked me.
What are your thoughts on the details of the Daystate being inferior to the RAW? Build quality or functional issues? I've been hearing a lot about harmonics being problematic for the RAWs when they're turned up for power, along with blowback issues and lesser important gripes. I haven't found much in the way of critique of the Wolverine 2's..
I am the type of hard headed airgunner who will eventually try everything out there if it bothers me when deciding between a selection of multiple brand of similar class guns. If you have the resources to spare I suggest you buy them both then either keep both like I do whenever I try things out (I just buy but don't sell my guns even if I don't like them because I feel it was my fault for buying it) or you can sell it then at least you have tried it for yourself and can sleep easier like I do then buy couple more of that same guns in different calibers and different stocks.
I lose a lot of sleep wondering if such and such is a better gun etc... so I just say what the heck buy them all and sleep easier.
The ones I don't like are still in like NIB condition. My favorites have some signs of use.
HA
I'm definitely more of a single loader vs. magazine kind of shooter. At the same time, I'm a minimalist - but I don't have any budget constraints, so right now I'm trying to fill a niche in my new collection (I got back into airgunning ~6 months ago from a ~30yr hiatus).
Ultimately, I can't shoot in my backyard - living in the city. I drive out an hour and a half to shoot every weekend. I was disappointed with the Impact X that I had, so I unloaded it (it didn't have enough muscle for .30 nor .22 slugs, and the experiences I had from acquisition onward left a sour taste). I wasn't prepared to wait Indefinitely for ER's high power kit, and the fun was just uncomfortable to shoot.
Right now, I'm just plinking with a Leshiy (Huma reg, Power tuned). I have stretched it out to 200y, but the groups are fugly, so my PB rifle has been standing in until I acquire something capable of shooting the stack of 32.80 & 33gr Varmint Knockers that I have hoarded. Eventually, I'll sell a bit more of my soul to the hobby and dive into swaging, just because I'm a hands on (and an engineer by trade and passion).
I think the new Wolverine has just enough power to challenge me enough at longer ranges, without the gun giving itself a hernia. At least on paper!
What caliber(s) and type of ammo are you shooting mostly?
IMHO the Daystates and Brococks in general are around 25% higher priced than they should be but they are fine guns and I really like them and still buy Daystate guns.
The RAW is at a higher level than the Wolverine IMHO.
If you have the resources I would highly recommend a Red Wolf HP in 22 or 25 if you are deciding between a Daystate and a RAW. I started with a 177 RW and I liked it so much I bought a 22 HP version the next month. If you want the best accuracy then single load it or if you need to use a magazine fed gun buy the RAW.
HA
If you want an affordable long distance rifle sized gun then I would recommend a 25 Edgun Morana which I have (but not for sale) and it is a tack driver out to 100 yards MOA capable if you are up to the part. I think Talon Tunes has it on sale right now for $1300.00. Now that is priced A LOT LESS than what I think it is worth!
HA
I tried Neilson 27gr slugs in my 22 Red Wolf HP so far it is about an inch average at 100 yards a little less if it is calm.
I have not tried any slugs in any of my HMX1000s 25 and 30 caliber. I only shot JSB pellets through them. My 30 HMX is more consistently accurate at 100 yards than my 25 no matter what JSB I tried but they are SUB MOA but the 30 shoots consistently tighter groups off a bench at 100 yards with 44.75gr JSBs. Haven't shot either in a long time now. Too many other toys to try out.
I have a 30 Daystate Renegade HP that gets MOA with 44.75gr JSBs as well but only15 dead on shots and a bit ackward to shoot off of a rest but a good hunting bullpup.
I have 2 30 FX Boss (with different stock on each) and shoot sub MOA at 100 with both no difference in accuracy with their ST "solid" barrels using JSB 44.75gr.
One of my FX Impacts in 25 that is currently leaking is MOA capable at 100 yards but not always and can't consistently get perfect groups all the time.
If you are into bullpups then the Taipan Veteran in 25 is SUB MOA capable with JSB 25gr and Polymags (at least in mine) too.
IMHO it is the best priced 100 yard SUB MOA capable airgun money can buy straight out of the box.
I have yet to buy a $299 25 Umarex Gauntlet and that one may be capable too.
HA
The best triggers if you are a trigger snob in a MOA capable 100 yard PCP are the ones from RAW, Taipan, FX (BOSS), Kaliburgun (Cricket) and Daystate (all electronic trigger guns) by far the BEST.
Only quirk with the Daystate Red Wolf is the breech O ring periodically needs replacing and the magazine system is in question but single loaded it is just perfect with the best trigger by far in any airgun I have ever shot. The lock time is the quickest too so less chance of pulling your shot.
I would not recommend the Air Wolf because of your high power needs for 100 yard shooting because the Air Wolfs I have are just normal powered 22 PCPs compared to the 50+fpe RW HP.
HA
If you want an affordable long distance rifle sized gun then I would recommend a 25 Edgun Morana which I have (but not for sale) and it is a tack driver out to 100 yards MOA capable if you are up to the part. I think Talon Tunes has it on sale right now for $1300.00. Now that is priced A LOT LESS than what I think it is worth!
HA
Amazing, I reached out to Talon earlier today about a Morana! The form factor spoke to me if you will. I have a high degree of respect for Ed's simplicity too.
I don't mind spending the money. If this plan doesn't follow through, I'm probably going to have a Beaumont built. I just wanted to avoid the import, the .22 is 116ft lbs.
I'm not opposed to bullpups in general, but it's tough finding one that can group within reason at 150-200. The Priest 2 has my attention, but I don't know if there's enough data out there yet to sell me on it.
I personally wouldn't consider a Beaumont due to the fact there is no guarantee the gun you get will shoot slug brand X or Y or Z perfectly until there is hard data available from enough satisfied customers. I would prefer to buy my slug making press and dies if that were the case so I could make my own perfect ammo all the time but no guarantees that particular die will shoot good in your gun.
HA
Yeah, the stock Beaumont barrels do not seem to be very universal. I was chatting with a guy that just let go of his 50fpe .177 and he was getting mixed results all around.
I have a line on a new Wolverine 2 .25 shooting 910fps with room to turn it up, I'm going to get it sent out to me today and see what happens. If it isn't up to par, plan B will be a new HMx .25, it's too bad they did what they did though.
I'm probably also going to order a Morana when I get back in town. @hotair, did you put a bipod rail on yours and if so, did you have to drill the foregrip?
Have you checked with SPAW by chance? I know that he sometimes has a RAW or two in stock. It'd be worth a shot...
Have you checked with SPAW by chance? I know that he sometimes has a RAW or two in stock. It'd be worth a shot...
Yeah, he just had a .30 with a BR stock.
I didn't install a bipod on it. I think you are going to be very happy with a Morana, I think it is worth $1700.00-$1800.00 new IMHO for the level of gun you get. Also a 30 HMX out of the box is SUB MOA capable FYI... 44.75gr JSBs...
HA
That is impressive for 44gr's, my Impact X would sling them pretty well with the 700mm STX, but more like 1.25" at 100.
I'm wondering about the he Huma reg for the Morana, whether or not it would provide any additional power increases. The other thing I'm concerned with is single loading - I'd definitely need a tray from the looks of how tight it is. Do you or have you single loaded without a tray or just stuck with magazine feeding with it?
BTW, I was shopping around for a new Taipan Long today - can't find a new one to save my life, I also never realized how much power the .25's produced!
I only use the magazines for the Edgun Morana and all of my magazine fed Edguns for that matter since they don't seem to negatively affect accuracy.
There is a 25 Wolverine HP Huma on AA classifeds keeps on popping up all the time listed for seems like forever (Probably for good reasons as I had already stated) the seller doesn't seem to be able to find a buyer for it and doesn't seem to budge on the asking price. It could just as well be you waiting for our buyer for it when it is your turn to sell a Wolverine. If it were a RAW HMX it would have been snatched up a long time ago and that alone should tell you something.
HA
I only use the magazines for the Edgun Morana and all of my magazine fed Edguns for that matter since they don't seem to negatively affect accuracy.
There is a 25 Wolverine HP Huma on AA classifeds keeps on popping up all the time listed for seems like forever (Probably for good reasons as I had already stated) the seller doesn't seem to be able to find a buyer for it and doesn't seem to budge on the asking price. It could just as well be you waiting for our buyer for it when it is your turn to sell a Wolverine. If it were a RAW HMX it would have been snatched up a long time ago and that alone should tell you something.
HA
The MK2's are 70ft lbs, only seen a few of them listed. I wouldn't be worried too much about having to sell it, it'd be less of a hassle to give it to my daughter when she outgrows her .22 P-rod than go through the effort of selling / shipping.
@hotair - I decided not to get the Wolverine 2. It looks good on paper power-wise, but I'm too set on adjustable cheek rests lol. I almost bought a RW HP as well, but I'm not super excited about the electronics in general, plus I'm a bipod guy - I'd have not been excited about drilling into either of those two Daystates and thus having to constantly worry about the fore grips splitting.
I got off the phone a few minutes ago with a vendor who called me to see if I wanted one of the three .25 RAW HMx LRTs they were getting in. I paid over the phone and will have it on 4/11 or 4/12. I'm back in town tomorrow if all goes well and will get a new Morana in my hands for the weekend.
Per your recommendation, I actually started looking into the Taipan Veterans... WOW! I never realized how much power they produce, nor how many people have reported not seeing fliers. All that seems to be available right now are a couple of used standards and a new short for .25's! No one has them, I'm going to have to keep my eyes out for them to come back in stock, I just wish that I had looked into them MICH earlier.
Thanks again for all of your feedback and insight! Hoping that both of these will be keepers.
Daystates have a five year warranty for added piece of mind if you are worried about the electronics but I have to tell you that my Daystates with electronic triggers are the best I have used from the Air Wolfs, Red Wolfs, Pulsars, and Renegades (mechanical action with electronic trigger).
You are going to be so happy with your RAW HMX LRT in 25! Congrats!
Post some pictures when you get it in.
When you get the Taipan Veteran, you will be pleased as well and their triggers are fantastic too.
You got three sub MOA capable guns here if you do your part when mother nature is calm.
HA
You can have Tony at TalonTunes insrall a rail on the fore end of your Morana for an Atlas bipod before he sends it out.
I had him install one on mine and he did a top notch job.
My Morana likes the MK2 heavies, so you may want to give them a try in yours as well. The rifle came to me running at about 1000 FPS with the 25Gr pellets, so it was right on the money at 900ish for the heavies.
The trigger takes a little getting used to, but a little fettling and you should come to terms with it in short order.
Congrats on the Morana!
