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Crosman 1720T Field Target Pistol with Iron-Sights ... Crossed the Rubicon - Again: My Second PCP Pistol  

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Alejandro O. Martinez
(@aom22)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 89
July 24, 2020 10:03:44  

Well ... after having seen ribbostone's 1700 with iron-sights - I wanted something like-that for myself.
But, not with the 1701P as the platform.
The longer sight-radius of the 1720T, shrouded-barrel and greater velocity/FPE was preferable to me. 
As-such, it wasn't long before I was to become the owner of a 1720T.

But, not after some considerable thought.
The more powerful 1720 does not come with provisions for a front-sight.
But, I'm getting ahead of myself ... the 1720T is intended for scope-use.
Well, that's all-good-and-fine considering its a dedicated design for field target competition.
But, call-me a traditionalist ... I wanted a pistol with iron-sights.

Iron-sights for the 1720T set-me-off on a convoluted journey.
Initially, John Swenson of New England Airguns provided an off-the-shelf solution.


"AR-style open-sights or iron-sights on your favorite PCP rifle or pistol"

However, the over-all sight-radius was only 12-inches long.
Falling much-shorter than the potential sight-radius the barrel of the 1720 could provide - that was unacceptable for me.
After a considerable amount of searching, I came across a rail system that would work for me.


Lion Gears BridgeMount Rail Tactical Picatinny Cantilever BM3405EXBT
.5" Riser, 13.78" Long, 34 Slots, Steel-Nut and Thumb-Bolt

My last concern was the rear-sight ... I wasn't sure about the peep-aperture was gonna be workable at extended arms length.
From prior knowledge, a ghost-ring peep was the better application.
Unfortunately, there was no off-the-shelf AR-15 style ghost-ring for a pictinney rail.
As-such, I had my misgivings and sought a notched rear-sight answer.


CSAT Rear - AR Mil-Spec

With all-of-this in-mind, I ordered the necessary parts required to put my iron-sighted 1720T together.
I already had the 1720 on-hand.
But, I hadn't committed to scoping this pistol.
At least ... not yet.  
I intend to do-so with a 1720T ... later-on.

 

 


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Alejandro O. Martinez
(@aom22)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 89
July 24, 2020 10:25:13  

First impression, this is not an elegant/sophisticated appearing sight/pistol combination.
Ungainly instantly comes to-mind ... but, function is my highest priority.
This hand-gun configuration is a reasonably-serviceable-solution for an iron-sighted 1720T.

And YES, the line-of-sight is high ... higher than I would prefer.
Unfortunately, this is the minimum-height I could achieve using G.I. rifle equipment.
However, this set-up has resulted in a 16-inch sight radius.
The 1/2-inch pictinney-riser-rail is the lowest rail-height available.
The M16/AR-15 rifle sights are by-design tall ... can't be helped.
If I can find a set of lower-sights that are pictinney-rail compatible ... I'll plan-on trying them-out.
 
All-considered, I thought the elevated-sights might present problems with a close-range aim-point.
But, that hasn't been the case as G.I.-style AR-15 rifle sights contain a considerable range-of-adjustment.

With the front-sight turned all-the-way "IN/DOWN" that's CW ... then, backed-off one-full-turn.
And, the rear-sight one-full-turn "UP" from the uniform "6/3" elevation setting.
I was able to hit small pecans with a "pumpkin on the post" sight picture at 8-yards with ease.

As-is, my 1720 is "box-stock" ... right-out of the shipping container.
Did absolutely-nothing to the pistol ... other than, installing the rails and sights.
(By-the-way, anyone notice what's wrong with the following photo?)


1720T with Leapers AR-15 Peep-Sights on Pictinney Rails
Front sight rail 13.78-inches, Rear sight rail 1.45-inches

These are a few-shots I took while walking-on the sights on-target.
However, prior to printing-on-paper.
I was shooting at some smallish pecans that littered-the-ground at about 8-yards.
The pecans established my rough sight-in.


Standing, Off-hand, 10-meters, CPHP 7.9gr
The “black marks” at the POIs indicate successive groups ... so I could keep track of additional impacts sites.

Nonetheless, I was surprised at the group-tightness at 10-meters.
And, didn’t see the need for more shot-strings on the same target.
So, I got-cocky and took-aim further-down-range at an old target that was slightly weathered.
But, had no prior POIs.

I took-my-time and fired-off three very careful shots.
I must confess, for this last group, I cheated a bit ... braced my off-hand arm.

Standing, Off-hand Arm Braced Against Window Sill, 15-yards 

I must admit, I didn't expect the results I got.
Didn't think the G.I. rifle peep-sights would be this effective on a hand-gun.
I am very-surprised ... actually, shocked at my 3-shot-group at 15-yards ... and equally-pleased.

Incidentally, I have another 1701P on-order plus a 1720T.
I already have accessory shoulder-stocks for both second pistols.
If ya have the impression,  I like the 1701/1720 pistols -  you're right.


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Alejandro O. Martinez
(@aom22)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 89
July 24, 2020 14:06:51  

The "fly in the ointment" ... did anyone notice what was wrong with my first photo of the 1720T?
Here's a hint:

I had the front-sight on backward.
In this image the sight orientation has been corrected.

After I reviewed the posted photo ... I realized what I had done wrong.
Oh-well, the time spent sighting-in the 1720 was wasted ... or, so I thought.
When I utilize dovetail-to-weaver/pictinney adapters, I've always wondered what-side of the adapter should be oriented towards the fixed-jaw of the pictinney mount.

I try to be consistent, in-this-case I placed the smaller-side of the adapter towards the fixed-jaw of the pictinney-mount.
Once I realized, the front-sight needed to be reversed.
I detached the the front-sight-assembly and turned-it completely around ... I intentionally did not reorient the adapter-base.

I made a single-sight-adjustment, I reduced the elevation on the front-sight ... that is all.
Then, I took a couple-of-shots to see how-far off-zero this little exercise would place my sight alignment.

Note the two unblackened POIs in the black diamond
These were the check-zero impacts after the front-sight was reoriented. 

To my astonishment, there was no discernible change-in the POI ... other than the down-shift in elevation I dialed-in.
I was very impressed. 


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marflow
(@marflow)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 895
July 24, 2020 15:56:33  

so what i have done with the Diana Chaser is bridge the breech to the barrel band with a weaver picatinny rail, for a scope, as i put sight on the pistols 

one thing that happens is the base will have better support and will be lower 

the rear would still have to be addressed but one thing at a time

you can normally steal the set screw holes for front and back 

i just Google 12 inch weaver rails and they are under 20 bucks 

but that is just my first reaction but we all have of box of stuff that we bought and didn't work, i think i have several but those boxes are junk just stuff for the next time 

can that barrel band be moved back, if so add another one for support 

so should every mod look great, well maybe but if it works who cares 

but we are always looking to build that better mouse trap 

and a good imagination always helps and find those off the shelf parts 

mike


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Alejandro O. Martinez
(@aom22)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 89
July 24, 2020 16:56:30  

Another "fly in the ointment" ... how I must-hold my 1720T.

Because of the G.I. rifle peep-sights, I use a very unconventional hold.
I grasp the pistol in a closely clutched-in manner.
This hold places the peep-sight as-close to-my-eye as possible ... imagine holding a rifle that's missing the butt-stock section.
My arms are not extended ... rather they are held close-in.
And, both of my elbows are anchored against my lower-body above-the-waist.

The pistol is so-pulled-in ... the trailing-end of the rear-sight can lightly-touch my nose.
This slight-contact helps to stabilize the pistol-hold even-further.
And, the closeness of the peep-aperature helps replicate a rifle-like sight-picture.

From my own prior experience with ghost-ring sights on pistols and from reading professional shooter reviews of hand-guns with  ghost-ring or peep-like sights.
I was reasonably convinced a conventional extended-arm-hold was not gonna result in precise-accuracy.
The ghost-ring forte is rapid sight/target acquisition ... not exact-sight-alignment. 

The modern M16/AR-15 rifle peep-sight has two apertures.
A small-aperture for longer-range shooting and a larger ghost-ring-like aperture for close-in engagements.
I think it might-be possible the larger-aperature could-be-useful when shooting the 1720 in a more conventional manner - meaning, extended arms.
However, a notched rear-sight would be the better option.


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marflow
(@marflow)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 895
July 25, 2020 15:24:29  

for an old .45 acp competitive shooter that seem a bit unconventional   

but if it works it works 

but i had another idea get another barrel band and put it out front and use a M-LOK rail  maybe 2 barrel band and a 7 slot 

just an idea nothing more               


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Alejandro O. Martinez
(@aom22)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 89
July 25, 2020 17:10:11  

This sort-of pistol-silhouette-hold gave me the idea.
However, I do brace-my-arms against my body.
My off-hand supports the underside of the pistol-forearm.
And, considering I'm employing rifle peep-sights, I try to position the rear-sight accordingly.
For additional stability, my nose may intentionally make-slight-contact with the tail-end of the rear-sight.

The Basics

Shooting position is an unsupported standing position using two hands.
Currently most pistol silhouette shooters use what is called a “taco hold” where one hand supports the pistol grip and the other is holding the scope or over a hooded front metallic sight.
This may seem strange to people at first, but once a shooter becomes accustom to this seemingly unorthodox hold, their scores increase a fair amount. 

 


AirHead thanked
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ribbonstone
(@ribbonstone)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 314
July 26, 2020 12:11:29  

All I can add to this is: You made me trythe P-Rod as an iron sighted pistol-pistol again....it's the same weight/length as your 1720.
Found an old set of home-brew iron sights in a part's box and thought I'd give the P-Rod another go.

Haven't really tired the P-Rod and 1701 head-to head in somthing like 8 years, Tossed in another handgun(a converted 2300) just becasue I could make it's simple sight a peep.

IF I had to,could have cut some plastic and just temp-glued it to the open bladesight. A dab of rubber cement would hold it for a test,but let me remove the peep-plastic and the glue residue.

1. If shooting like you pictured above,with the peep close to your eye, peep works. Not having mounted the sights high, really can't get my hand over the top like that and still see the sights.  

2. Shooting like that picture, length might be an advantage. Hands/arms are a bit less restricted.

 

3.  The height of your set up would promote the full "over hand" type hold.

 

The two smaller pistols (1701 and 2300) went back to open sight pistols....the P-rodback to being a carbine.

Flock of pictures:

PRod(same size as the 1720)
1701 (with shroud)

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2300 HiPac:

Sights (P-rod/1720): gray here:

Sorry...they are junk-box sights. 

Rear is from some random Chinese rifle.

Front sight is a split bit of steel tubing. An old Crosman 99 front sight was soldered to the tubing, along with one screw. Will slide over the shroud firm enough to stay put for testing. Would stay put for real use if set screwed/glued ...but every so often you need to take the shroud off and it's a PIA to get it back to perfectly vertical.


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Alejandro O. Martinez
(@aom22)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 89
July 26, 2020 13:40:27  
Posted by: @ribbonstone

Sorry...they are junk-box sights. 

Rear is from some random Chinese rifle.

Front sight is a split bit of steel tubing. An old Crosman 99 front sight was soldered to the tubing, along with one screw. Will slide over the shroud firm enough to stay put for testing. Would stay put for real use if set screwed/glued ...but every so often you need to take the shroud off and it's a PIA to get it back to perfectly vertical.

That’s a lot of improvising - impressive.
For myself, I like to utilize off-the-shelf as much as possible.
To-this-end, my 1720T has come-out OK ... for now.

In the near future, I foresee a notched rear-sight becoming a reality.


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ribbonstone
(@ribbonstone)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 314
July 26, 2020 14:26:42  

So long as I'm digging in the parts box and haven't scoped/sighted in the PRod....


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Alejandro O. Martinez
(@aom22)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 89
July 27, 2020 15:20:56  

Today, as I had done several times before, I took the 1720T out-with-me while I was tending-to-the-cats as-they-had their outside time.
I was plinking-around and shot a couple-of marauding-sparrows about 12-yards away intent-on raiding the bird feeders.
Also, took-out some green pecans that presented good-clear-targets at about 9-yards.

The local house finches have become accustomed to my shooting ... they don't fly away - they've learned, I'm not a threat.
While my plinking and keeps sparrows away from the feeders
After the cats had finished recreating themselves ... mostly, bird-watching house finches.
I put the kitties back in-the-house and continued to plink at some steel-spinning-targets.

After a while, I was getting bored.
When I spied a weathered but-still-clean-target on a spinner ... placed in a less conspicuous spot.
However, with no obvious POIs.
I braced my off-hand by the side of a trellis, supporting the roof of the patio, with two-fingers.
And, cradled-the-forearm of the 1720 with my remaining free-fingers.

I was establishing-a-hold on a sight-picture consisting of a two-inch orange "pumpkin-on-the-post."
I fired the shot with a 6-o’clock POA.
Didn't hear a "tink" - but, I heard the unmistakenable-tak of a pellet solidly-impacting a back-stop. 
I set-up for a second-shot with the some hold ... this time, I heard a clear-tink and saw the steel-spinning-target move.

If ya look at lower-right, the white-area, has a nick on-the-lower-side of the partially rolled-up target backing-paper ... that was the POI of my first-shot.
Just slightly to-the-left of 6-o'clock on-the-pumpkin ... you'll see the POI of my second-shot.
My confidence-check affirmed-my-hold and POA.
Moreover if ya look closely, you'll see the two-shots are delineated by-the-circle of a dime.


Standing Offhand, Forearm Supported by Offhand, 16-yards, 3-shots, CPHP 7.9gr

For my next shots, I elevated the front-sight-post to split-the-pumpkin and placed the black-diamond of the orange-target on-top of the post.
I steadied the rear-sight as-well as-I-could ... it was a challenge.
While the front-sight was well-anchored because the 1720 forearm was rested.

I patiently-and-carefully squeezed-off this shot ... to my satisfaction, the pellet impacted with a clear-tink.
While at-the-same-time, accompanied with an obvious movement of the spinning-target.
This process was repeated for a total of three-times.
The resultant POIs were just-scarcely within-a-dime.

Having completed another sub-dime three-shot-group this time at 16-yards.
Not from my usual shooting position ... so, to-be-sure of the range, I measured-off the distance.
Proving to myself, the initial sub-dime three-shot-group at 15-yards was not the fluke - I thought it was.


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