Living With My .177...
 
Notifications
Clear all

Living With My .177 Gauntlet & Hand-Pump ... The Retriever Kitty


Alejandro O. Martinez
(@aom22)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 167
Topic starter  

INTRODUCTION & BACKGROUND:
My first-buy was an Umarex Gauntlet in .177
Where to Find:  30mm Med-Height, Fully-Adj, Dovetail Scope Mounts

For sometime, I've been shooting my Gauntlet on a regular basis.
I must say, this rifle has performed reasonably well.
Powerful and displaying satisfactory accuracy with readily-available pellets.
The only major complaint, the sound-signature is not as quiet as I'd prefer.

The 3,000 psi, 13-cubic inch fill tank is not too-much-a-problem to-live-with using a hand-pump.
I have a Hill Mk4 hand-pump and it-takes between 150-to-200 strokes to fill ... depending how "empty" the tank is.
By the way, I never let the regulator "drop-off" ... the tank psi is always kept above 1.3K psi.
I generally refill the Gauntlet when the indicated tank pressure falls-to 1.5K psi.
About 16-strokes are required-to pressurize the compressed-air feed-line at approximately 1.5K psi.
Then, I count-off 20-to-30 strokes per fill-cycle with a 15-to-20 minute break between sessions.

Take note ... after reaching 2.0K psi, the pumping-effort increases noticeably.
As pressures above 2.5K psi are encountered, stroking the pump-handle becomes real-work.
Requiring ya-pay particular-attention that the pump-handle is pushed all-the-way-down.
And, to-be-certain the handle travels the complete-stroke-distance ... all-the-way UP and all-the-way DOWN ... follow-through.

I would question purchasing an airgun with fill-pressures above 3.0K.
The additional effort involved going beyond 3.0K psi would make hand-pumping very-unlikely for me.
Although, I do have a second/spare Hill/Air Venturi Mk4 pump rated at 300-bar/4500 psi.
I'm thinking, to routinely exceed 3.0K-psi, I'd have-to try-out a 4-stage FX hand-pump ... well, maybe - then.

I allow about 15-to-20 minutes between fill-sessions permitting for cool-off.
This intermission, I think, minimizes condensation from forming inside-the-tank as a result of heated-air cooling-off.
Normally, after every full-clip I refill ... this makes for expending a reasonable amount of effort per-tank-fill easy.
That's just what I like to-do to keep my shooting sessions uncomplicated and relaxed.

Now keep-in-mind, I don't put-many-rounds downrange with my Gauntlet on a daily basis.
I'm not plinking ... pest control is my Gauntlet's dedicated task.
And, shooting sparrows is something I usually leave-to a less-powerful air gun.

Under these circumstances, a hand-pump is not a major disadvantage ... just an inconvenience.
However, if I were to employ my Gauntlet for frequent and extended plinking.
The hand-pump certainly would-have to-be a more-negative-factor I would have-to contend-with.
in fact, I have two Hill-hand-pumps and several rebuild kits on-hand.
Such is my commitment to avoid purchasing an electric-air-pump.

However I must say, I dabbled-with the idea of acquiring a good-quality high-volume air-pump and a couple of air tanks.
Considering Crosman has gotten into-the-fray of home-use PCP air-pumps.
Crosman's well-known good-customer-service and reputation of honoring warrantees would be the determining factor.
Be that as it may, the high-initial-cost of an electric air-pump and the associated complexity are serious impediments to ownership.
This includes the necessary and routine maintenance along-with the it inevitable rebuild requirement. 

That being said, during the last couple of weeks, I've noticed the Gauntlet has not been maintaining it charge.
After some troubleshooting (wishing I had an electric-pump and tank), I found the foster-fitting was the culprit.
I disassembled the air charge fitting ... I was surprised by what I found.
There was only a tiny check-ball and a small conical-shaped spring holding the synthetic-sphere in-place against the sealing-seat.

I cleaned the foster-fitting steel-body, the synthetic check-ball, the check-ball seating-area and the retention spring.
After cleaning, I lubed the check-ball, the spring & seating area of the foster-fitting with some silicone-grease used-on my Hill air-pump.
In short order, I installed the foster-fitting and aired-up the rifle to 3K psi.
The majority of the air-leak was corrected ... now, there is only a slight-seepage of air.
I can live-with-this until I find a better foster-fitting replacement.

This has been the full-extent of any problems directly related-to the Gauntlet that I've encountered so-far.
Take note:  my Gauntlet is a pre-OEM barrel-band model.
I must take-care not to bump or touch the barrel ... changes the POI for a short duration.
It is a nagging inconvenience ... having-to gingerly take-care ... the barrel makes no-contact with anything.



bf1956 thanked
Quote
Topic Tags
Alejandro O. Martinez
(@aom22)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 167
Topic starter  

Today, I experienced the best-shot I've ever performed with my Gauntlet.
While baby-sitting some of our cats outside in the backyard, I spotted a collared-Eurasian-dove on a telephone pole some distance away.
I rushed inside my home to retrieve the nearby Gauntlet and quickly readied the rifle for a shot.

Right-away while composing the shot, I realized this was gonna-be the longest-shot I've ever attempted with this rifle.
Estimating pellet drop was gonna-be a problem ... I wasn't familiar with the trajectory beyond 30-yards.
So, I placed the crosshairs of the scope dead-center on-the-head of the dove.
I figured the projectile POI could only-be lower further downrange.

The Gauntlet is heavy and long ... as such, I had to brace my support-arm aside a patio-trellis with a couple of my fingers.
While the remaining-digits formed a small-cradle for the massive forend to lay-in.  
Setting-up for the shot made-me realize, this wasn't gonna be a rock-steady rest - but, it was gonna have to do.

I settled-in to compose the sight-picture ... cross hairs steady-on the head of the dove.
The bird was directly facing-me, presenting a full-frontal shot with the head at the 12-o'clock position.
As I started the shot-cycle ... coordinating all the basic elements of shooting ... breath-control, trigger-control, steady cross hairs ... had all my undivided attention.
In-short-order, the shot went-off ... slightly surprising me - perfect I thought.

Through the scope, I saw the bird tumble backward away from my line-of-sight.
All-the-while, flapping its wings, going no-where ... but, down.
I was surprised at the wing flapping.
Usually, after hearing the center-mass impact-slap of my Gauntlet launched pellet, most birds would-drop like a hacky-sack having lost momentum.

I put the rifle down and pulled my cell-phone camera from my pocket.
Ready to take a photo as soon as I reached the downed bird - had to out run the watchful alley cats.
I looked-for the POI ... to my surprise ... right on the head - inline with the beak.

image

On closer inspection, the POI was slightly above my POA.
Nevertheless, considering it was as standing-shot with my support-arm lightly-braced ... not an ideal shooting position.
With all this in-mind, I had a strong feeling-of-accomplishment in having made this shot.
I was impressed with the performance of the Gauntlet ... less-so with myself.
After coming-to the realization ... I was the weakest-link in this scenario.
Even more-so impressed, when I determined the shot-distance from my range-card.
My notes indicated over 37-yards ... but less-than 40-yards.

image

bf1956 thanked
ReplyQuote
Alejandro O. Martinez
(@aom22)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 167
Topic starter  

"You may ask yourself" ... what is happening-to the harvested collared-Eurasian-dove.
Well, they're being recycled by the ownerless/homeless neighborhood cats.
Any birds I shoot while defending the bird-feeders are picked-up and taken to a nearby-location adjacent-to some dumpsters.
Some of the cats feed out-of these trash receptacles.
I place the dead-birds next-to the bins for the cats to find and feed-on.

However, some collared Eurasian dove have gotten-wise to my activity.
They perch at a safe standoff-distance ... or, so they think.
The Gauntlet has extended the reach of the Crosman 2100's or Daisy 880's I normally used.

When I shoot-at Eurasian-dove beyond-the-fence-line. 
More-often than-not, I find cats that have been waiting ... for their meals to fall-from-the-sky.
If ya look at the photos below, you'll see my view of the fence-line.

image

There's a hole in the fence the cats traverse through.

image

If ya look closer, you'll see one-of the cats waiting for its meal to arrive.
Like manna from heaven.

image

bf1956 thanked
ReplyQuote
Alejandro O. Martinez
(@aom22)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 167
Topic starter  

One cat in-particular is always Johnny-on-the-spot when I start shooting collared-Eurasian-dove.
When I drop-a-dove beyond the fence-line.
At the sound of my air rifle discharging and hearing the pellet-slap impact.
This kitty will race-into-action to beat the other felines to the downed bird.
If she's first to her prey, this kitty will find & retrieve the fallen bird.

image

All-the-while, fending-off the gauntlet (pun-intended) of other cats.
Then, climb over my backyard fence with bird in-tow.

image

To present me with her prize ... in-exchange for some very-tasty kitty-treats.
That's the deal,  this ... for that.
And, she's very fastidious about enforcing the informal arrangement.

image

Although, She prefers some scrumptious-snacks instead-of eating a dirty-bird.
If I don't keep-up my-side of the bargain ... there's a penalty awaiting me.
When she's hungry-enough or I'm too-slow ... the fowl will become her meal.
There will be an accompanying-mess for me to clean-up.
And, heaven help-us ... both, if the wife sees kitty dining-on dead-bird.
Especially, when said "dead bird" is my handiwork with the Gauntlet.

By-the-way, this IS NOT our cat.
Of her own accord, she's taken-up residence in our backyard.
All-of-this, is enabled by the winged-bounty the Gauntlet provides.


bf1956 and TomR_here thanked
ReplyQuote
Avatar
(@harvey)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 148
 

Now that is a great story.  Thanks for the pics as well!


ReplyQuote
Doug Wall
(@doug-wall)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 186
 

Letting the pump cool off really does nothing to prevent condensation in the tank. Bleeding the feed line does help a little to get rid of condensation in the pump, but generally, if atmospheric air goes into a hand pump, it goes into the tank.


ReplyQuote
Avatar
(@ribbonstone)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 407
 

These are still my rules for pump filling...really haven't changed from my frist PCP (2003).

1. 50-60 pump stokes.
2. Bleed the pump,disconnect,wander off tor 7-10 min.
3.Reattach, put in another 50-60 stokes.
4. Repeat #1-#3 until full.

WHY?..becasue it lets your pump live for years without a proble and limits the moisture injected into the rifle.

1. The pump never gets hot,so the final stage o-rings don't cook themselves.

2. Pumps have a bit of a moisturte trap inside (often little chambers of glass beads) that can only hold so much moisture.

3. Bleading the pump every 50-60 pumpos blows out that little moisture trap, so it's ready to collect more moisute rather than just pass it along.

Bad news...it takes forever to fill up a large volume...or a smallish volume (like a 13cuin tank...which is only like 215cc's) over a WIDE pressure range (lets say from 1000-3000psi). Probably 5 sessions....so more like an an hour and a quarter.

BUT...we watch TV at night....and there are breaks (either commercial or personal bathroom/snack breaks).

So I learned to get BOTH...credit for family time (watching the TV) and a full fill (pumping during the breaks).

Family time...and a full air tube...double credit.
-----------------

Can aslo tell how I got my prefernce for small volume PCP's that could be refilled in one session.

"pump-shoot-pump-shoot" had more appeal when hand pumping than "pump-pump-pump-pump...shoot-shoot-shoot-shoot".

--------------

Pump filling is NOT for the inpatient....to do it right,where the equipment lasts a long time, takes time.

 

 

On the other hand...when have we don't out best work/got the best results when we're in a rush?


ReplyQuote
Alejandro O. Martinez
(@aom22)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 167
Topic starter  

What's Not-To-Like about the Gauntlet

Well, the most obvious ... the sheer size/mass of the rifle.
Not an air-rifle for small-framed shooters
As @ribbonstone observed in an earlier thread.

Posted by: @ribbonstone

Agree about the size of the Gauntlet, it's bigger than folks expect and never really going to be a handy rifle. 
Same has been said of the Marauder. 
Don't mind that when just sitting at a bench, often get left home when I'm away from the bench.

The fully-adjustable synthetic-stock is a welcomed feature.
For my purposes, the Gauntlet is adjusted to the shortest Length-of-Pull possible and measures 13-1/2 inches at-that.
However, that's the LOP of a full-size rifle ... from-this-point, the LOP can only be increased.
That makes no-sense to me.

The bolt cocking-on-opening is a feature I don't-like.
This requires a bolt hold-open slot to-be-cut in the receiver to facilitate single-loading.
However when feeding-from-a-magazine, cock-on-open is not an issue.

I cannot consider the moderation system to-be quiet ... certainly-not Marauder quiet.
The discharge noise is not offensive ... but, it could use some improvement to be considered backyard friendly.

The early-model rifles lacked barrel-support ... no barrel-band.
If you're considering buying a used Gauntlet, be sure a barrel-band is included.
All new-production Gauntlets are equipped with an OEM barrel-band.

Although my Gauntlet displays satisfactory accuracy.
The expected accuracy "guarantee" by a well-known Gauntlet-tuner is 2-inches @ 50-yards.
Not exactly confidence inspiring for a .177-caliber rifle.
But, good-enough for a .25-caliber small-game hunter.

Lack-of iron sights.

image

 

What's To-Like about the Gauntlet

The receiver is all-metal ... unlike many-of the recent $300-Asian-whizzbang-PCPs that come-with synthetic receivers.
Moreover, the receiver is very-long because the bolt is totally-enclosed during operation.
Accordingly, there are dovetail-grooves cut for the entire-length of the receiver.
As such, for optic-mounting ... positioning is very flexible.

image

The Ninja regulator/tank is a unitized-system that is readily-accessible and just as-easy to remove.
This is gonna-make troubleshooting for leaks much simpler. 

The adjustable-trigger certainly contributes to accuracy.
My trigger was "stoned" and adjusted by New England Airguns.
The trigger is sensitive, predictable, consistent and works-well for me.
And, I haven't touched any-of the adjustments since she came out-of-the-box.

There is an extensive aftermarket-support for Guantlet accessories and modifications.
Not to mention, a network of tuners and customizers available to improve/repair Gauntlet rifles


bf1956 thanked
ReplyQuote
Avatar
(@ribbonstone)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 407
 

Like the Gauntlet...get to use buddies ,but not one I actually own.

Before there was a Gauntlet,folks makde HPA conversions to QB's.

I'd like the repeater fuction of the Gauntlet....just not like it enough to dump the two I converted...to  pull up stakes and ride backwards, just to start all over again, has limited appeal.

Considering the hours of work ,HPA tank,tuning,,LDC....would have come out pretty close to "even".


ReplyQuote
Alejandro O. Martinez
(@aom22)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 167
Topic starter  
Posted by: @ribbonstone

Like the Gauntlet...
Before there was a Gauntlet,folks makde HPA conversions to QB's.
....just not like it enough to dump the two I converted...to  pull up stakes and ride backwards, just to start all over again, has limited appeal.

Funny you should say that.
'Cause, I like my Gauntlet too ... but, I'm not enamored with this rifle - either.
My Gauntlet is my "get-dirty" air rifle ... unlike my various favored-and-pampered Teutonic pets.
But, the shortcomings of the Gauntlet ARE NOT sufficient-enough to-warrant the purchase another $300-Asian-whizzbang-PCP as a replacement.
Read:  Air Venturi Avenger or Umarex Origin. 
At least, not right-now.

However, about a week-ago while at my dentist's office ... I had some time-on-my-hands in-between procedures.
I took a  quick detour to a nearby Academy Sports store.
Lo-and-behold ... there in-the gun department, I spied two Umarex Origins in a display case.

I had "a-thousand-dollars" burning-a-hole in my pocket.
Being, I don't make-it to the big-city of Odessa very often, it-pays to be prepared with cash-in-hand, just in case.
And most importantly ... with CASH ... the wife ain't gonna know.

Well, I didn't buy an Origin ... wrong-caliber and after finding-out the receivers are synthetic - I have my reservations.
Gonna wait-for field-reviews from ordinary shooters ... rather-than, relying-on dealer's gushing reports and glowing videos.
I'm generally NOT the CONSPIRACY THEORIST type. 
But me-thinks, I smell some RINGERS among the dealer-samples the Retailers are touting-about and bestowing-accolades.

That said, I think I'm gonna-wait ... at least until the next-generation is on-the-market - well, maybe then.
Like I shoulda' waited-for the 2nd-generation Gauntlet.


bf1956 thanked
ReplyQuote
Alejandro O. Martinez
(@aom22)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 167
Topic starter  

WHAT'S IT GONNA TAKE TO MAKE
MY GAUNTLET A KEEPER ?

Well minimally, the Gauntlet needs a barrel band.

image

 

And, discharge noise has to-be reduced to make the rifle really backyard friendly.
These aftermarket baffles may drop-noise by 2db.
I'm not sure this will result in a sufficient noise reduction.

image

 

Ideally, what would be best-suited to properly reduce noise is a silencer.
Adding a silencer would make the already long-barrel ... even longer - not good.

There is a short-shroud and silencer-combination available that will allow-for keeping the OAL nearly the same.
And, has the potential of being quieter than an OEM Marauder.
However, this comes at-a-cost of nearly 3/4ths-the-value of the rifle. 
Bringing the modified Gauntlet uncomfortably-close to the retail-price of an off-the-shelf Marauder. 

image

 

Then came the Benjamin Fortitude Gen 2.
Had it been available at the time I was considering the Gauntlet ... I probably would have purchased the Fortitude. 
And would have pursused, a Lothar Walther barrel-upgrade to make the Fortitude "perfect" in my eyes.
The irony being, without the Gauntlet ... the Fortitude may have never become a reality.

 


bf1956 thanked
ReplyQuote
Avatar
(@ribbonstone)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 407
 

Pump filling base line (not going to be pretty).

Basical level of a reasonably tuned rifle will be 10 foot poounds OUT for every fill pump stroke IN. Can make it considerly better with work, or considerably worsethan that 10:1 ratio.

It's kind of a reverse calculation of 1.2 FPE/cunin effiency.

Big tank....put 200 refill pump strokes (lets say from 2K to 3K).... should get 2000 foot pounds of TOTAL good energy back out.That could be 40 shots at 50 foot pounds...or 80 good shots at 25 foot pounds...or 160 good shots at 12.5 foot pounds...don't matter.

So you pump-pump-pump-pump-pump to get it refilled and then shoot-shoot-shoot-shoot until it needs refilling again.

Little tubevolume. Might put 60 pumps in to get it back up to 3K from 2K. Should give 600 foot pounds of total good energy back out.Could be 11-12 shots at 50 foot pounds to 50 shots at 11-12 foot pounds.

So you pump-shoot-pump-shoot-pump-shoot.

There isn't any magic here...energy going in vs. energy coming out...you can't get "ahead"of enthropy in this universe.

CAN swap it for someone else's labor by using a tank filled by someone besides you or a compressor running from electricty (although some are gasoline fired)….still going to equate to energy in vs. energy out....just don't have to be your phycal energy.


bf1956 thanked
ReplyQuote
Alejandro O. Martinez
(@aom22)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 167
Topic starter  

GAUNTLET RIFLE PERFORMANCE STATISTICS

Trigger Pull:  14.8oz to 15.1oz, Stoned&Adjusted by Dealer

Name: Gauntlet
Notes: FILL PRESSURE
   Pump Gauges:  3.0K psi
   Reservoir Gauge:  3.2K ps
Transfer Port:  OEM
Shots: 5
Average: 948 ft/s
SD: 2 ft/s
Min: 945 ft/s
Max: 952 ft/s
Spread: 7 ft/s, REGULATED
Pellet:  Crosman Premier Hollow Point
Weight: 9.7 gr.

image

 

How sensitive the trigger-pull spec'ed-out sure-was unexpected by me.
My trigger has a characteristically-short take-up travel, considered the first-stage, with no creep, no grittiness.
Before “hitting-the-wall” of the second-stage.
Followed-with a “crisp let-off" right-at the same-instant ... a micro-second of surprise injected itself.
Trigger-wise, I couldn't ask-for-better in an inexpensive, utilitarian, hunting rifle.

But, I had no-idea how-light it was-set by the dealer.
And, that is troubling-me for safety reasons - meaning:  potential accidental discharge.
For this single-reason, I'll probably increase the trigger-pull minimally to-at-least 1lb-8oz.
Or, perhaps even 2lb-0oz.

I had figured the Gauntlet was shooting a little "hot" ... 875-to-900 fps was my guess.
But, not nearly 950-fps ... a little unexpected and generating darn-near 20-fpe.
Sure explains why a center-mass POI on a collared-Eurasian-dove cleanly-dropped these invasive birds.

Even a raking-shot on a full-sized collared-Eurasion-dove yielded the same result.
This bird was about 25-yds away, sitting slightly-crouched, in an elevated-position on a telephone-pole, with its back-turned-to-me, facing-away.
The POI-traversing from just-above the base-of-the-tail towards the breast ... no exit wound.

But, I did find blood-dripping from the beak indicating a lung-was-punctured ... that's good penetration in my book.
I'm thinking ... the pellet continued-on and in-bedded itself in the breast - flight muscles.
That's why I didn't see the mortally-wounded-avian flap-its-wings to full-extension ... only some futile fluttering to-be-seen.

I do realize this was only 5-shots.
At the very least, I've established a performance base-line for the Gauntlet. 
But, since it is a regulated PCP ... the 2-fps Standard Deviation attests to this.
The short-string is indicative of this rifles capability.

However, I did encounter a-bit of-a-problem with my ProChrony.
Several shots would-not-register until I installed the auxiliary-light-system. 
In-fact, I had to break-out my trusty Red Ryder to-see if a BB would-be picked-up.
I knew the average-velocity of the Red Ryder ... 260-fps
A single-BB tripped the chrony traveling 273-fps.
With this in-mind, I had an idea my chrony was performing properly.

image

3-Shot Groups @ 20-Yds
CPHP 7.9g
Green/Yellow Dot 1/4-Inch For Scale
Top Group:  Zero-Check, Bumped-Barrel, Confirm Zero Shift, In-Quick Succession 
Lower Group:  Initial Scope Adjustment
Middle Group:  Clove-Leaf after Horizontal Scope Adjustments

 


bf1956 thanked
ReplyQuote
crazyhorse
(@crazyhorse)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 155
 

The Gauntlet is a copy of of certain HPA conversions if you check it. Like the 850 Air Magnum plus some QB's...nice rifle.


ReplyQuote
Avatar
(@ribbonstone)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 407
 

 

Not that I'm anti-Gauntlet....do think it's a great buy.

Just that I made the QB conversions long before there were Gauntlets to buy and it still works. Kind of big for my type of woods-walking hunting (well...more like swamp-stomping), so I don't use it for that. Don't miss any airgun not being a repeater when I'm not in a rush for a 2nd shot.

For .177 fans,do think the current sale price of the .177 version is a deal at $230. The on sale.177 does not have the barrel-band up-grade of the .22 or .25.....so think of it as "the old model"....but if you are a .177 fan, that's about $100 less.

Will say this....if the old conversions gets lost, stolen, explodes,catches fire, etc.....will order a Gauntlet the next day and NOT go the DIY like I did 10 years ago.

DSCN1706


ReplyQuote
Alejandro O. Martinez
(@aom22)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 167
Topic starter  

The Gauntlet is an amalgamation of the many notable air rifle designs as @crazyhorse alluded-to and all-of-us would recognize.
And, while it is true, the Gauntlet hasten the "end of the line" for the QB series ... I think Mr. Archer retired the QB too-soon.
I truly-believe there was-still some-viability-left in the series - I was saddened and perplexed to-see them gone from the website.
The base-model CO2 versions were-all sub-$300 ... closer to $200 - that was the niche for the QB.

 

 

Posted by: @ribbonstone

 

Before there was a Gauntlet,folks makde HPA conversions to QB's.

IPosted by: @ribbonstone

 

Just that I made the QB conversions long before there were Gauntlets to buy and it still works.
Kind of big for my type of woods-walking hunting (well...more like swamp-stomping), so I don't use it for that.
Don't miss any airgun not being a repeater when I'm not in a rush for a 2nd shot.

Posted by: @crazyhorse

The Gauntlet is a copy of of certain HPA conversions if you check it. Like the 850 Air Magnum plus some QB's...nice rifle.

 

 

For certain, after some of the myriad options and/or upgrades were selected.
No doubt, the $300-Gauntlet-ceiling could easily be exceeded.
But, if that's all-one-sees ... they're missing the point.

For most buyers, it is the INITIAL PRICE that-is the "all consuming factor" - not the cost of future upgrades or modifications.
It is easy to rationalize a string-of-upgrades as finances permit.
And, that is where the QB-series excelled ... the availability of a never-ending list-of potential upgrades/modifications for the owner to consider.

Moreover, CO2 is still a viable propellant for many.
Especially, the Paint-Ball crowd ... a lot of those fellas shoot airguns too.
The QB-series a few years ago became a dual/fuel capable platform from the dealer.

I would visualize three versions.
A base-model CO2.
An unregulated-HPA variant of the CO2-model ... a reservoir being engineered to permit charging-with HPA or CO2.
And, a regulated-HPA conversion.

I think with some-updating of the QB-furniture and design-changes to-make dual/fuel change-overs seamless.
And, continue the offering of the repeater receivers.
Along-with a shrouded-barrel election.
But most-of-all, make-available a match-grade barrel option.
A cost-effective Chinese-sourced barrel.
And, of-course, offer a Lothar-Walther barrel as-well. 

With all-of-this, the QB-Series could-easily garner at-least another decade-and-a-half extension of life - if not, for 20-years. 

 


ReplyQuote
Avatar
(@ribbonstone)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 407
 

My 2rd 850...so evidnetly I like them.

AirGun depot had this "special run" made of 12gr.running versions a few years ago. Can see where it was all pretty much in production,just never collected and put togeter as a co2 gun.

I had NOTHING to do with it other than adding the little LDC.

DSCN2430

On the first 850, really didn't like the 88gr. AirSourse tanks (about as costly a way to shoot co2 as possible on a weight of co2 basis). Converted that one to co2 tanker and really liked it. I screwed up for my use and converted it to HPA,and didn't care for it.

This one,I like...but was expensive for a co2 rifle. 12gr. cheaper (in terms of cost of the co2) than 88gr.

Only problem is that it's a little too good looking to go bashing about the woods or "swamp stomping".....plus the whole co2 and cold thing (although I live pretty far south).

RELATING TO THE GAUNTLET:
With a bit of adjusting/tuning...would make a really good co2 tanker if co2 was your choices in fuels. It'sbased on a QB79....so re-reverse it.

Could dump the "bird cage" part of the fore ened that covers the HPA tank and use a 9-oz pintaball tank.

Could use one of the little 3.5oz. co2 tanks and still use the "bird cage".

If you had a dead-reg 13cuin HPA tank...gut the reg. and use it as a 5oz. co2 tank.


ReplyQuote
crazyhorse
(@crazyhorse)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 155
 

Had many issues with the 88gr before going to the 9oz tanks. Since 2008 I've been on 9oz tanks on my 850 .177. Still functions very good....it's just to fast for some. GRIN.


ReplyQuote
Alejandro O. Martinez
(@aom22)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 167
Topic starter  

Well ... for the last five-months, the Gauntlet had been providing good if-not so-quiet service.
That-is, until a couple of a weeks ago when the tank began to lose some air ... again.
I knew this was coming.
But, I didn't think it would happen this soon.

Turns-out the foster-fitting was leaking just-as-before.
I disassembled the inlet-valve once-again and was equally-dismayed on-seeing the valve-seal was just-a-tiny synthetic-ball supported by a ink-pen-like spring.
In a repeat exercise, I cleaned the fitting and lubed the ball with silicone-grease.
This worked as-predicted for a while.

But, another more-serious leak developed at the bonnet threads.
The bottle had loosened-up at the bottle-adapter-block.
After tightening the bottle and adjusting the the fitting-and-gage collar of the regulator ... I was back-in-business.

But, only for a while.
In a couple of days, the tank dumped the entire 2.9K-psi contents overnight.
Boy was I pissed - still am!

So, how pissed was I?
Enough to-place an order for a regulated Benjamin Marauder Field Target in .177.
Which-is what I should-have-done in the first-place long-ago.
The only caveat, the rifle has an OEM-Crosman-barrel versus the Lothar Walther barrel I really wanted - COVID19 strikes again.

I can live with this.
Considering my actual intent was a regulated Benjamin Gen2 Fortitude in .177 that would come-with a new-process choked OEM-Crosman barrel. 
However, only the .22 version has been available - the .177 might be long in coming ... I was thinking.
I rationalized, the Marauder Field Target was regulated as-well, had a much-better adjustable-trigger and an adjustable cheekpiece ta'-boot.
So, it was an easy decision for me - I'm reasonably pleased.


ReplyQuote
Alejandro O. Martinez
(@aom22)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 167
Topic starter  

What is to become of the Gauntlet?
I'm not sure ... but, I don't wanna put much-more-money into this rifle.
Silk purse out-of a sow's ear comes-to-mind.   LOL

Well, I just finished ordering some much-needed but, relatively low-cost items.

  • A Umarex/Ninja regulator rebuild kit.
  • Umarex/Ninja tank O-ring set.
  • A complete rifle O-ring kit.
  • Some foster fittings.
  • 1.8K  psi burst disc (final leak that dumped the tank overnight).
  • A barrel baffle set.
  • Dual barrel support bands.

 

My initial plan is-to quiet-down the Gauntlet a-bit-more and make the rifle as leak-proof as I can.
Then, this PCP will be re-relegated to permanent, full-time, outdoor-status.
I'm gonna-make one concession ... the rifle will be securely tucked-away in tightly-closed hard-case when not in-use.
And, the Gauntlet my-be performing loaner-duty with some of my friends that-show-interest in airguns.
That’s why I’m gonna install two-barrel support bands.
In an effort to minimize the consequences of the inevitable “barrel-bump.”

 


ReplyQuote
Alejandro O. Martinez
(@aom22)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 167
Topic starter  

Just one-more-thing, I'd like to relay about the Gauntlet.
Troubleshooting the multiple-air-leaks was much simpler than I had expected.

I was dreading disassembling the rifle.
But as it turns-out, after viewing a few videos ... the process was not-as-complicated as I had imagined.
Even, partially breaking-down the regulator/tank didn't present any insurmountable problems.

But I gotta say, I was a-bit-stressed as-I-first-began the troubleshooting procedure to-find the source of the air leak.
I thought-back to my basic-electronic-development-training ... I recalled the "half-spit" troubleshooting technique.
That is, select a point in the mid-section of system-operation and begin troubleshooting there.
Then, systematically-move either upstream or downstream.
But, not in a random-manner while conducting the inspect/check/test process.

To this end, I removed the externally-mounted, integral. air tank and regulator ... dividing the rifle from its pneumatic source.
In an impromptu manner, I dunked the regulator-body into a some water.
And “voila!” the leaking 1.8K burst-disc was revealed.
And, that-was-that.

However in hindsight, I shoulda’ used a fine-mist spray-bottle with a mild-soapy-solution to induce bubble generation.
We have lots of spay-bottles all-over the house ... to break-up cat fights.  LOL 

Either-way, I was feeling proud-of-myself and impressed-with the Gauntlet design parameters of separating-basic-functions.
I'm thinking ... how Crosman has missing-the-mark by not bringing-out a bottle-version of the Marauder.

  


ReplyQuote
Alejandro O. Martinez
(@aom22)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 167
Topic starter  
Posted by: @aom22

So, how pissed was I?

Enough to-place an order for a regulated Benjamin Marauder Field Target in .177.
Which-is what I should-have-done in the first-place long-ago.
The only caveat, the rifle has an OEM-Crosman-barrel versus the Lothar Walther barrel I really wanted - COVID19 strikes again.

Still pissed-of ... but, even more-so!!!
Why!?!?!?
My Benjamin Marauder Field Target version in .177 caliber was waiting for me at the front of our house.
I was so happy - but, that feeling didn’t last-long.

That was, until I opened the box from “Pyramyd Air” and began to admire my Marauder.
In short-order, I found the stock was cracked at the wrist.
In my mind, this was the shippers fault for not packing my rifle properly.

I had a clue as-to what I would find inside.
Both ends of the shipping-box exhibited compression-damage.
No doubt this occurred in-transit.

It arrived at my door-step double-boxed.
Problem is ... the protective-shipping-box was just big-enough for the OEM-box to tightly slide-in.
There was no extra-padding, no bubble-wrap, no additional foam-blocks at the ends.
NOTHING TO PROVIDE ADDITIONAL PROTECTION AGAINST ROUGH HANDLING.
ABSOLUTELY NOTHING?!!!!!
Other-than, an additional layer of cardboard ... to protect the cardboard paper underneath.

That’s why, I’m even more pissed NOW.


ReplyQuote
Alejandro O. Martinez
(@aom22)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 167
Topic starter  

Well, I got my Gauntlet back inservice.
The leaks have been stopped ... the fill-valve was replaced along-with the 1.8K burst-disc.
And, an aftermarket baffle-kit was added to the barrel shroud.
As-of this afternoon the Gauntlet was holding air and while sighting-in a 10-yard rough-zero.
The report seems perceivably-less noticeable  - the sharp "crack" has been dulled.
Most noticable is the hammer spring noise. 

But, I had some major and unexpected problems along-the-way.
Even-though, I diligently followed video instructions to torque the disc to 55-inch-pounds.
The Ninja OEM replacement burst-disc leaked on initial installation.

Noticing the leak, I removed the 1.8K burst-disc and reinstalled the item hand-tight plus a 1/8th turn.
I pumped some air into the tank and at 500-psi the leak redeveloped.
With a box-end wrench, I tightened-down the burst-disc just-enough to stop the leak.
Followed with an additional 1/16th turn.

After installing the Ninja tank/regulator back on-to the Gauntlet, I pressurized the system to 2.0K-psi.
No leaks were apparent.
I fired a 10-shots and replenished the tank to 2.5K-psi.
Continuing my shooting, when the pressure-dropped to 2.0K, this time I refilled to 2.8K-psi.

So-far ... so-good.

 

 


ReplyQuote
Alejandro O. Martinez
(@aom22)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 167
Topic starter  

I installed modified the fore-end guard for the dual barrel-band installation.
All I had to-do ... cut-off an appropriate amount from the forend. 
I slid the barrel-band down-the-barrel and encircled the air-tank with the lower-section of the band - simple.

Afterwards, the aftermarket barrel-baffles were installed into the barrel-shroud.
The receiver-end of the shroud threads-onto the "shrouded-barrel rear-support" at the front-end of the rifle receiver.
The "shrouded-barrel rear-support" is item 42 on the illustrated parts diagram.
https://onedrive.live.com/?authkey=%21AI%2DRIXk1wy6klNQ&cid=E9266565E6FD290F&id=E9266565E6FD290F%212974&parId=root&o=OneUp

The while torquing the shroud onto the "shrouded-barrel rear-support" ... the rear-support came-loose and stayed-threaded into the shroud.
Now, the "shrouded-barrel rear-support" and shroud are tightened-together permanently ... so it appears.
Not good.

In the process of attempting to correct the problem ... I tweaked the barrel.
As a result, I could not zero windage - the adjustable mounts ran-out of range.
This was a very disconcerting situation to be-in ... very perplexing and determining a solution was time-consuming.

Anyway, after a while I figured-out what I needed-to-do ... some old-fashioned barrel-bending.
In-this-case, barrel-and-shroud bending.
After a couple-of-hours of trail-and-error, I had the Gauntlet zeroed-in at 10-yards without resorting to scope turret adjustments.

I just hope in the morning, the rifle will still be holding-air and zero is retained.
Man!!! I sure hope-so!!!


ReplyQuote
Alejandro O. Martinez
(@aom22)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 167
Topic starter  

Right-now, I’m a bit soured-on Chinese-PCPs.
So-much-so, I pulled-the-trigger on a couple of German break-barrels I've had my-eyes-on for a couple of months.
A trifecta of Teutonic-springers with moderators.

Yep, I’ve been thinking about-this for quite-a-while ever-since I-first-spied an HW30 Urban Pro.

Weihrauch HW30S .177 Urban Pro Air Rifle Video Review

Couldn’t get this little-rifle out-of-my-head.

Moreover,  I saw an HW80K with a factory moderator.
The HW80 got my attention.
So did the HW50S Hunter.

Weihrauch HW80 Long Range Hunter

More on this ... later.
I gotta-go to bed ... way-to-late for me.

 


ReplyQuote
Alejandro O. Martinez
(@aom22)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 167
Topic starter  

First-thing this morning, as soon as I got-up.
I checked the pressure on the Gauntlet gage - seems to be holding air alright.
My next concern was checking 10-yard zero.

About an hour ago, I had the chance to fire the Gauntlet at 10-yards and 20-yards.
The 10-yard zero was fine ... I expected as much.
Moving-down to 20-yards, zero had to be dialed-in ... three-clicks right and five-clicks down.
Refilled the Gauntlet to 2.8K-psi and did some-more shooting at 20-yards.
The rifle is still settling-in and accuracy seems OK.

Prior to my modifications, the Gauntlet was producing some tight-overlapping-cloverleafs at 20-yards.
Now, the cloverleafs are not quite-as-tight ... the POIs are showing some vertical-linearity ... while touching, but not overlapping much.
Still, good-enough accuracy for my purposes.
Most probably, the shooter is not as-steady as he should-be (LOL) nor is the rifle-rest as stable.  


ReplyQuote
Alejandro O. Martinez
(@aom22)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 167
Topic starter  
Posted by: @aom22

Right-now, I’m a bit soured-on Chinese-PCPs.
So-much-so, I pulled-the-trigger on a couple of German break-barrels I've had my-eyes-on for a couple of months.
A trifecta of Teutonic-springers with moderators.

Yep, I’ve been thinking about-this for quite-a-while ever-since I-first-spied an HW30 Urban Pro.
I gotta-go to bed ... way-to-late for me.

 

Well, my moderated-Teutonic-springers finally-arrived yesterday.
I knew when they were coming ... my wife was aware via a package/mail delivery application.
Not-good I'm thinking when she announced to-me ... " I see you have some packages coming."   LOL

The inevitable happened, UPS showed-up with two-rifle-boxes ... a large-one and a small-one.
I brought the boxes-in and immediately began the process of inspecting the contents.
In one-smaller-box was the HW80K.
While a larger-box contained an HW30 and HW50S

Just-then, the wife walked-in ... noticing what appeared to-be TWO-rifles in plain-sight.
The smaller-boxed HW80K was opened and clearly visible.
While at the same time, I had removed the HW30S from the larger-box.
Leaving the HW50S still inside the larger shipping container.

Oo-wee I was thinking ... just dodged-the-bullet about buying THREE-rifles.
She thought I had only two guns.  LOL

Top:  HW30K
Middle:  HW50K
Bottom:  HW80K

image

bf1956 thanked
ReplyQuote