I decided to do some shooting with my Beeman Webley Tempest that I bought new around 1989. It was the 2nd airgun that I bought... the first being a Beeman FX-2 air rifle.
Never was very accurate, but I always loved the looks of it and feel it has... I don't recall which pellets shot the best in it, but it seems most would fit somewhat loose into the breech... I remember using my Beeman Pell Seat tool to enlarge the pellet skirts so that the pellet would fit better in the breech.
I'm curious about others' experiences with the Tempest, and what pellets you found to be more accurate than others ?
Here are a couple photos of mine... I added the combat grips and trigger shoe, and the Bianchi leather holster, as "recommended" by the Beeman Precision Airgun Guide, that I just loved browsing through, which I'm sure added to my airgun addiction... I always looked forward to the next issue... those were great days back then !
I've owned a couple Tempests, and always found the pellets I used drop right into the breech with no resistance. I used Eley Wasp pellets back then (the eighties), and found them accurate in everything. Don't sweat the lack of fine accuracy. That's the wrong pistol for impressive accuracy results; perhaps I should say, "In human hands". As taken from my new book titled Custom Classic and Otherwise Awesome Air Pistols! -
"Even the best adjustable sights are handicapped by human shortcomings; mostly our inability to focus on multiple distances at any one moment. The iron-sight shooter must focus on the target, or his front sight, or the rear sight; leaving two of three objects in the sight-picture out of focus. That’s not conducive to great precision.
Unfortunately and no matter how high the quality, non-recoilless spring-piston pistols are among the most difficult guns to master of any kind. Depending on individual interpretations of the words master and accuracy, I feel it humanly impossible to master a recoiling spring-piston pistol to any high degree of accuracy. Not only have I never managed it, but I’ve never seen or heard of it being accomplished.
I enjoy casual plinking with a spring-piston pistol. But invariably, plinking sessions become more serious as tin-can ranges increase with every hit.
A typical spring-piston session starts innocently enough at 10 yards. But as ranges approach 20 yards the fun devolves evermore to frustration with each additional yard. By the time ranges approach 20 yards, plinks become rare enough to either abort the session or switch to arms more appropriate to the task (like Co2 or PCP pistols); whereupon the fun returns to 30-40 yards with iron sights, and 40-50 yards with optics."
I've owned a couple Tempests, and always found the pellets I used drop right into the breech with no resistance. I used Eley Wasp pellets back then (the eighties), and found them accurate in everything. Don't sweat the lack of fine accuracy. That's the wrong pistol for impressive accuracy results; perhaps I should say, "In human hands". As taken from my new book titled Custom Classic and Otherwise Awesome Air Pistols! -
Hi Pisterlo... yeah, I quickly learned how hard it is to shoot spring-piston pistols with iron sights.
My 2nd spring-piston gun was a Beeman P1 (HW45), which proved to be more accurate and forgiving, but it was still difficult. I eventually added a shoulder stock and a Bushnell Holosight (one of the first ones--got it used), and that made a world of difference... but now it's basically a short carbine... but I do like hitting what I aim for now !
The Tempest was always said to be just a "plinker" gun, that you would keep in your fishing tackle box for when the fishing got boring, although I never did that.
I'll be trying some of my old stock pellets to see what happens, and try it out again on some tin cans, and probably not more than 10 yards away !
Has your book been published ? Where can one buy it ?
I like the Tempest. I got pretty good at shooting a coke can hanging from a tree with it. I started up close and kept backing off. By the end of a weeks vacation, I was hitting the coke can most of the time at 30 yards. My Tempest has a heavy trigger. I have shot several with nice triggers. I am sure a lighter trigger would help.
I never got good enough with the Tempest to consider it a hunting arm. For me, it is a front pocket carry or shoulder bag carry plinker to carry with me in the woods. It is satisfying to hit something with it since it is a handful to shoot.
I like the Tempest. I got pretty good at shooting a coke can hanging from a tree with it. I started up close and kept backing off. By the end of a weeks vacation, I was hitting the coke can most of the time at 30 yards. My Tempest has a heavy trigger. I have shot several with nice triggers. I am sure a lighter trigger would help.
Hi David... I think I will try that approach... start up close and keep backing off.
Have you tried adjusting the trigger ?
I was reading the manual, and it says to cock it before adjusting the trigger... unloaded of course... although the manual seems to indicate to fire it without loading, but we all know better than that... sure would not want to dry fire it !
They are a great plinker. Personally think they feel great in the hand, nice size and weight. Don't expect performance of a 10mm pistol and you won't be disappointed. Mine seems to like RWS match wadcutters and able to be coke can/pine cone accurate easily to 25 yards.
They are a great plinker. Personally think they feel great in the hand, nice size and weight. Don't expect performance of a 10mm pistol and you won't be disappointed. Mine seems to like RWS match wadcutters and able to be coke can/pine cone accurate easily to 25 yards.
Cheers
It's been many years since I shot it... long overdue to taking it outside !
I seem to recall from when I bought it and shot it years ago, that the horizontal adjustment needed more adjustment.
Maybe it's how I am holding it, since all springers are hold sensitive.
Had it out this afternoon, and hung it from a wired hanger that I put together... could hit a hanging can from about 8 yards... several times... then the buggy knats started messing with me.
They are a real POI to get to shoot well...but they wlll. That rear running pistol makes for a whole lot of down movement while fiting.
If you run a straight edge from the rear sight to the top of the front sight, it's pretty obvious that your sights are way-way above the barrel line...so basically you're aiming way above the target, the sear tripps, the piston moves back towards you, the gun dips, and (if you did everything right) the pellet esits in line with striking the targer.
OK..a Webley Junior MkII....but the same lay out
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Which means that consistency of hold is EVERYTHING with these pistols. If you can hold them exactly the same way each time, they actually shoot pretty well.
If you have to shoot one from the bench with a bag rest...then rest the middle of your forearms on the bag and let the pistol move as it needs to. With the pistol itself rested, it will shoot about a foot high at 15 yards (because you blocked the downward rotation from the rear facing piston).
I've clocked a lot of miles while bank-fishing with the old Junior MkII. If I live long enough to wear it out for a rebuild a second time, I will rebuild it as nothing is as compact/easy to carry (so far...there is always hope some maker will recognize the urge for one you can stuff into a pair skinny-old-man Levi's).
Three things will help shrink groups from a Tempest(other than pellets that fit)
Stone and adjust the trigger...they are safe with almost imperceptible creep at a little less than 16 oz of pull, if set up right.
Replace the plastic chamber housing with a metal one. Have a machinist friend make one, have one cast in bronze or lead, whatever. A chunk of weight in line with the piston makes a huge difference.
Hold..let it roll, just enough grip to keep from dropping it, and consistent.
With that combination, on a good day, nickel size five shot groups at 30 feet are pretty common for me.
I also have a Great Shooting Tempest with Combat Grips and Trigger Shoe. I use RWS Match 8.2 Pellets .The More You Shoot the Better Groups you will get.It will never be a match Pistol but one of the Best compact plinkers ever made .After 1000 rounds it will be easier to Cock and Shoot ! Have had 6 tempests and 2 were tuned but my last one was bought Used and in Mint Condition From AOA and is the Best of them all and the only one that I didn't sell ! Long Live The Tempest !
Funny you'd mention the P-1 AirMo, since that's also the next mention in my book-
"A modern spin on Webley's over-lever barrel-cocking spring-piston design is the German Weihrauch HW45 pistol; better known in the U.S. as the Beeman P-1 Magnum. The “magnum” moniker wasn’t inaccurate when compared to most air pistols of the era, assuming One hadn’t experienced a vintage Crosman Co2 pistol (especially in .22).
Still produced, the P-1 mimics a long-slide, 1911 Model Colt .45 semi-automatic firearm. Of quality alloy construction with an excellent trigger, good adjustable sights and factory scope grooves, there is a lot to like in a P-1 (despite it being a recoiling springer). Aforementioned features endow the P-1 with practical-accuracy potentials beyond that of other spring-piston pistols. However, that still leaves the P-1 at considerable disadvantage to recoilless designs (and propellants) in the hands of we humans."
To order Custom, Classic and Otherwise Awesome Air Pistols! you can PayPal manicompressive@yahoo.com $27.50 total for Media Mail delivery or $32.50 total for Priority Mail. Here's a link to more information posted on this forum-
Kinder to the P-1 than I likely would have written it, but they were (and are) pretty solid pistols.
BTW..will be buying your book...am a compulsive reader, and the topic interests me...although I do think we will disagree here and there. This is a "there".
Was out the nite before,so the next morning I wasn not really well awake when the UPS guy shows up needing a signature. I sighn, take the package and head back to bed.
Can't sleep. Realized something was wrong with the package. All I had ordered were some springs and seals (respringing/sealing an HW 35 and a Webley Osprey) and that Beeman box was way too big and heavy.
1/2 pot of coffee later, open the box to find my springs/seals, and a P1. HAd seen it in the last catalogue, but didn't order it. Wasn't on the contents, wasn't charged for it.
(And yeah...Beeman really did put out a class catalogue....give it big points in up-scale-marketing.)
Call Beeman's. Don't know who I got on the line, but pretty quickly the conversation degenrated into:
"We have no record of that."
"But it's here, in my hands right now."
"Without a record of it, I'm not authorized to send return shipping."
"But DUDE...I didn't order or pay for it."
"I can transfer you to someone who will take your payment."
Somehwere along the way, I just hung up.
So inside the box is a P1, one of the dual power versions, with both a .177 and a 5mm barrel.
Figuring their mistake, they had my phone number, I wasn't obligated to buy it but wanted to do the right thing and send it back...they'd call me back.
NOpe...never did call back...and I retruned the indifference by not calling them back.
The .177 shot well, but the 5mm shot better, so it pretty much stayed a 5mm. Dual power was a strange, the low power setting was slower...so offhand it shot HIGHER (the barrel didn't rotate down as far during firing). Someplace out at about 40-43 yards, the two power setting's trajectories came together well enough to shoot tin cans. Sounds better than it really is, seeing how a tin can stands about 4.7" high and about 2.7"wide. (or in 40 yard terms, about 11 3/4MOA high and 6 3/4MOA wide). Still mightly tough to consitently hit them with any air pistol off hand, so don't take that as a "slap" to the P-1...just putting it in persperctive. Some folks must love them as they're still being made.I LIKE them,but never really fell in love with the gun (think of it as a "friend with benefits").
Think we actually DO agree on the P-1, R.S. Most of what I've written about them in the past has been a bit harsher criticism, but I think I moderated somewhat this time considering the context (comparing them to other recoilling springers). I much prefer the P-2.
Hey Bud, you tried talking sense into a Beeman's phone rep... who obviously wasn't interested in hearing it! So I wouldn't lose any sleep over them GIVING you a P-1. The price was certainly right on that one!
Think you'll enjoy the new book, as you seem like the correct target audience I aimed for. If you order it, just let me know if you want it signed. And if so, with or without a greeting?
not sure how this post went from Webley to HW45's but what the hey
on all of the calibers of a the P1 .22 is the nicest to shoot, the recoil is diminished as you go up in size and once you change out the factory barrel band screw that are as soft and easily damaged with good ones, the barrel swaps are easy
one thing about the P1 that I like better then the P2 is it is way easier to cock, especially with optics of any kind
and on the Webley Tempest I think it is a pistol everyone should own or the Hurricane or both, know I have my fair share but they are very harsh to shoot, great size, poor sights, Tempest, easy to cock, it is a plinker and they have a purpose
I LOVE the Tempest! Have owned several over the years, love shooting them, and would never be without one. No, not a match pistol or super-slick trigger, but perfect size and balance, quite nice power considering the small size, and beautifully and ruggedly made. Quick, name another springer pistol with this much power you can put in a coat pocket...basically, there aren’t any.
IMHO the Tempest and Hurricane were VERY underrated in their day. Everybody whined about how they were “not as nice as the old Webley pistols,” fussed about the trigger and recoil, etc. The nice part was you could buy LNIB used ones all day long for 75 bucks, usually from newbies who’d given up on them after a few shots! Today’s prices reflect their quality a bit better, though.
But in truth, they have better ergonomics and more power than any of the old guns, and are equally rugged internally. The homely stock grips actually fit my hand perfectly; very comfortable, and when I raise a Tempest the sights are always perfectly aligned.
Interesting bits of trivia...the frames for these guns were cast in pairs in a special mold, and all were “born” as Hurricanes (the Tempest was made by cutting the “tail” off the frame, and milling for the more compact rear sight)! The only other differences between them are the Hurricane’s longer front sight housing (barrel length is the same) and lettering on the front sleeve. The trigger, sear, and cocking linkage parts were cut and drilled from solid steel extrusions made in Germany; the piston and inside of the compression cylinder are solid steel; and the spring is quite under-stressed. These are incredibly stout air pistols.
I’m also a fan of the Hurricane. Not as cute as the Tempest, but the longer sight radius, click-adjusting rear sight, and taller, better-shaped front sight blade make it a gun you can shoot darn well with a bit of practice. Years ago I was in an informal air pistol league, and found that using my Hurricane as a practice gun helped me do a lot better when keeping score.
Polishing and lubing the trigger/sear mating surfaces helps the trigger pull, though really they will break in over time to a good level. I’ve had a couple of these guns where the trigger was greatly improved by shortening the sear engagement, but be aware that THE SAFETY WILL NO LONGER WORK if you do that. Be very careful if modifying the trigger geometry.
The piston seal is not a delicate “parachute” edged thing, but a solid slug of PTFE. You CAN safely dry-fire these guns; in fact the factory manual recommended doing it a couple times on new guns to size the seal! Sure, you don’t want to make it a habit, or do it hundreds of times in a row, but an occasional dry-fire to tweak the seal, adjust the trigger, etc., will NOT hurt them.
Last but not least, I can’t recommend the book “Webley Air Pistols” by Gordon Bruce highly enough. Perhaps the best airgun monograph ever written IMHO, has a well-written history of every model, with excellent photos and great drawings done just for the book. The story of designing and manufacturing the Hurricane/Tempest family is particularly interesting.
Thank you for all the comments guys... even the P1 comments, since I mentioned it, and really like my current setup.
Mike... good info... wasn't aware of being able to dry-fire the Tempest a few times... I remember reading, years ago, that you could dry fire the P1 to size the seal.
I've been re-enjoying the Tempest the past several days... great memories of when I first purchased it many years ago and fell in love with airguns!
I adjusted the trigger some, found a nice relaxing two handed grip that seems to help a lot, and had a tin of the RWS Meisterkugeln 8.2 gr match pellets handy to try out... getting some better groups, and hitting a hanging beer can, that always sounds great when it's being smacked hard !
I have a FWB-65 that I never really shot much, preferring scoped air rifles over pistols... but I'm enjoying the Tempest so much, that I am going to break out a few other air pistols, like the FWB-65, to see how good they can really shoot !
HAve always though of the Webleys (including the Tempest) as the nearly indestructible air pistols. Stuff does eventually wear out, but they aren't hard to work on and the parts are still out there. You really have to work at it to break one.
Wasn't there a small grip/lower power version of the Hurricane....the "Typhoon"?
HAve always though of the Webleys (including the Tempest) as the nearly indestructible air pistols. Stuff does eventually wear out, but they aren't hard to work on and the parts are still out there. You really have to work at it to break one.
Wasn't there a small grip/lower power version of the Hurricane....the "Typhoon"?
Indeed, the Typhoon was intended to replace the previous Webley “Junior” models intended for younger shooters. To my eye a rather ill-proportioned pistol, with that big top section sitting on the smaller grip, and seems a curious successor to the classic little Juniors. It was discontinued after a few years and is quite collectible today.
The Hurricane and Typhoon were introduced in 1977, and did not sell as well as expected. The Tempest came along in 1979 as a reaction to that, and was an immediate success, no doubt at least partly because it more closely resembled older Webley pistols. The Hurricane was always slightly more expensive, but as noted above, it actually took a bit more work to make a Tempest.
As you noted, these pistols are pretty easy to work on. The original manual packaged with them gave full detailed instructions for taking them apart, in fact! Don’t think we will be seeing such as that again in our liability-obsessed age, LOL.
Another piece of trivia: in WW2, Webley manufactured parts for three different Hawker-designed fighter aircraft. These were named...the Hurricane, Typhoon, and Tempest! Some Webley rifles of the era (Vulcan, Viscount, and Victor for example) also shared names with British military aircraft.
I decided to do some shooting with my Beeman Webley Tempest that I bought new around 1989. It was the 2nd airgun that I bought... the first being a Beeman FX-2 air rifle.
Never was very accurate, but I always loved the looks of it and feel it has... I don't recall which pellets shot the best in it, but it seems most would fit somewhat loose into the breech... I remember using my Beeman Pell Seat tool to enlarge the pellet skirts so that the pellet would fit better in the breech.
I'm curious about others' experiences with the Tempest, and what pellets you found to be more accurate than others ?
Here are a couple photos of mine... I added the combat grips and trigger shoe, and the Bianchi leather holster, as "recommended" by the Beeman Precision Airgun Guide, that I just loved browsing through, which I'm sure added to my airgun addiction... I always looked forward to the next issue... those were great days back then !
Now there's a blast from the past! I, too, loved those catalogs and nearly wore them out. I had them all at one point from the very first to the last one R. Beeman made.
Never owned a Temptest so can't comment about the pistol but it's nice to see one again. And yours above looks great!
And the comments above about hitting a Coke can hung in a tree, that's how the vast majority of my practice was had. I'd tie a string to the can, fill it with water, and toss is up into a tree only stopping the string and tying it off when the can was right where I wanted it to be. Shredded many cans that way and it gave me lots of practice hitting grackles as they swayed in the wind.
Thinking about it...the plastic safety would break enough times to get a note from folks back then. It's really the only part that had that reputation, and most of us never used it unless we were keeping it loaded, cocked, and ready in a holster (those trigger shoes can catch on a tightly formed holster).
Can't remember (or have experienced) another common point of failure.
On early “Tempicanes,” you will often see that bottom of the plastic sleeve over the front of the action is cracked down the center. These were made so that they had to be “sprung” a little bit to grab the action, which over-stressed the plastic over time.
That being said, the crack usually remains stable, so is only a cosmetic issue. The part was altered on later production to eliminate the problem.