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bf1956
(@bf1956)
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Posts: 183
2020-05-10 16:59:41  

Hey you know it alls out here is there variants through the years? And what is a good fps?


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Jim Bentley
(@jim-bentley)
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2020-05-10 17:29:25  

They are wonderful guns!! I have a .177 and in a moment of weakness just sold one in .22. With their power plant they are best at around 12 ft/lbs. The .22  that was a smooth accurate shooter, but the velocity was nothing to brag about. They can be tricky to tune correctly, fortunately for me I'm friends with a great retired tuner who helped me get tune them to smooth guns that I wanted.


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bf1956
(@bf1956)
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2020-05-10 19:37:31  

@jim-bentley Hey thanks! As far as the 12ft# go how do I get to fps with lets say a 8gr. dome pellet? Ya know I'm not the Sharpest tack in the box. As far as the variants go , I have 2 in 177 with ser.# with a spread of 80,000. 1 has a ring groove just short of the forward lug and comp tube. The early 1 has a smooth transition like you would see on R7 & r9. Hope this makes sense.


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Jim Bentley
(@jim-bentley)
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2020-05-11 10:09:03  

I would not get too hung up on the actual energy. Unless you are hunting, I prefer the smoothest tune whether it is 10 ft/lbs or 12 ft/lbs. is no big deal.

FT/Lbs.= velocity x velocity x pellet weight divided by 450240

Example 

800 fps x 800 fps x 8 gr = 5120000

5120000/450240 = 11.37 ft/lbs 


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bf1956
(@bf1956)
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2020-05-11 11:27:23  
20200511 102237
20200511 102218

 This is what I am trying to find out why the lower rifle has that ring around the comp tube.


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marflow
(@marflow)
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Posts: 809
2020-05-11 16:10:22  

i looked in the Beeman 1995 catalog and they list the the R8 at 720 FPS and the only air rifle that has that tube band is on a R10 and it is listed at 950 FPS


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Beeman22
(@beeman22)
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Posts: 104
2020-05-11 16:59:12  
Posted by: @marflow

i looked in the Beeman 1995 catalog and they list the the R8 at 720 FPS and the only air rifle that has that tube band is on a R10 and it is listed at 950 FPS

Those are two very nice looking guns!

Agreed on the FPS (don't know about the band).  The Beeman R8 is the Beeman-branded version of the venerable Weihrauch HW50s (the old version, which is NOT the same as the current HW50s), so you can expect to be the 8.5-9 foot-pound range, or about 700fps with an 8 grain pellet.  I don't think it's possible to get anywhere near 12 foot pounds out of this gun - these were meant to be relatively low-powered springers - basically a slightly higher-powered R7/HW30 with a more grown-up looking stock and overall feel.   

The modern HW50s (which was sold briefly by Beeman as the R6) can achieve 12 foot pounds or more, but is a completely different animal. 

While the power of this vintage platform is quite modest, I'm personally a really big fan. I like to say that a a high-power magnum springer can be fun sometimes, but there is always real joy to be had in shooting the more moderately-powered guns like these. 

Mike Driskill is quite an authority on the HW50 /R8 platform (and the related HW55).  Try googling of "MDriskill Beeman R8 HW50" or something similar, and you'll quickly find a lot of info on the forums.  For example:

https://airgunwarriors.com/community/airgun-talk/beeman-r8/

https://airgunwarriors.com/community/airgun-talk/beeman-r8-nirvana/


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MDriskill
(@mdriskill)
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Posts: 164
2020-05-11 18:29:02  

Thanks for the kind words (not sure "obsessed idiot old guy" is the same thing as an "authority"...but hey, I'll take it).

As already noted, the old HW 50 platform is about a 700 FPS gun in .177. 

The R8 was only offered for a few years, and I'm not aware of any significant production variations - but that is a very interesting example with the recessed ring behind the breech. I've never seen that before. You will see a ring like that on older 50's and HW 55's, but it was located closer to the breech face, at the actual joint between the receiver tube and breech fork. 

 

3327E38D D35A 4274 AC8C 3AEC5C055095

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Jim Bentley
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2020-05-12 16:51:23  

I just looked at my Santa Rosa R8 and it has the same ring.


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Racrouc
(@racrouc)
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2020-05-12 18:00:34  
Posted by: @jim-bentley

I just looked at my Santa Rosa R8 and it has the same ring.

My San Rafael has the groove my Santa Rosa doesn’t.


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Jim Bentley
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2020-05-12 19:10:35  
Posted by: @racrouc
Posted by: @jim-bentley

I just looked at my Santa Rosa R8 and it has the same ring.

My San Rafael has the groove my Santa Rosa doesn’t.

Sorry, I meant San Rafael 

 


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MDriskill
(@mdriskill)
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2020-05-13 07:17:37  

Now that's very interesting! Obviously this was purposely done to at least one batch of guns.

I wonder if I might ask the serial numbers of the guns with the rings? The R8 was, I believe, the first HW 50 variant to have a synthetic piston seal and a safety. So one explanation might be that the ring was an HW factory marking to identify receivers destined to become R8's?


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Jim Bentley
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2020-05-13 08:21:25  

@mdriskill

 

Mike my .177 with the ring San Rafael is 9733XX

The .22  I sold did not have the ring it was Santa Rosa 13209XX 


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Racrouc
(@racrouc)
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2020-05-14 17:56:54  
Posted by: @jim-bentley

@mdriskill

 

Mike my .177 with the ring San Rafael is 9733XX

The .22  I sold did not have the ring it was Santa Rosa 13209XX 

My .177 with the ring San Rafael is 9802XX


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Jim Bentley
(@jim-bentley)
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2020-05-14 19:13:33  

It's been too long for me to remember, but did any of the HW 50 guns have this ring?


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MDriskill
(@mdriskill)
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2020-05-15 07:22:05  

Thanks guys! This is very interesting.

9733xx and 9802xx were both made in 1983, I would guess within a few weeks of each other.

Surprisingly, my own R8, which does NOT have the ring, is earlier (but still 1983): 9600xx. I believe all three of these are fairly early examples of the R8. 

I have two other members of the HW 50 "family" with relatively close serials: HW 50S no. 7967xx, and HW 55 no. 8861xx (both 1980). No rings on those either.

So, the only thing we know for sure is that one batch of R8's had rings! It would be fascinating to know why, and if this carries over to any other models.

Thanks again for posting (geeks like me LOVE this stuff...)! 😆 


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MDriskill
(@mdriskill)
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2020-05-15 08:25:59  
Posted by: @jim-bentley

It's been too long for me to remember, but did any of the HW 50 guns have this ring?

Jim, early HW's from the 50's and early 60's have an incised ring, but it's deeper and further forward - located at the actual joint between the receiver tube and breech fork. Quite different from what we see on these R8's. 

The photo that I stuck in one of my earlier posts above, shows an early HW 55 on top, and HW 50 no. 713xx (1958) on the bottom.


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Albino
(@albino)
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2020-05-16 11:04:35  

This can be useful. 😀 

 

https://forum.vintageairgunsgallery.com/weihrauch/weihrauch-hw50/


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bf1956
(@bf1956)
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Posts: 183
2020-05-17 15:11:23  

@mdriskill  Ser. nos. for San Rafael R8s are with the ring is 9802xx and without is 9584xx. And now to all responders and others it needs a seal(piston & breech). So what should I take inti consideration if it is got to be opened up? like do I get a kit or what?


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Jim Bentley
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2020-05-17 15:22:55  

@bf1956

I used a JM kit on two of them and as can be expected they worked perfect. If you order from him send an email telling him the vintage you have and the velocity you expect (within lbs. reason) and he will make sure you get the correct spring.

Both my .177 and .22 that I just sold are in the 12 Ft-Lb range and smooth as silk.


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MDriskill
(@mdriskill)
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Posts: 164
2020-05-18 20:03:10  

@bf1956

+1 on what Jim said, I've done a bunch of Jim Maccari's kits in HW 50's and 55's, always top notch. 

I kinda like the factory breech seals in these guns for what that's worth.


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Beeman22
(@beeman22)
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2020-05-19 12:27:31  
Posted by: @jim-bentley

@bf1956

I used a JM kit on two of them and as can be expected they worked perfect. If you order from him send an email telling him the vintage you have and the velocity you expect (within lbs. reason) and he will make sure you get the correct spring.

Both my .177 and .22 that I just sold are in the 12 Ft-Lb range and smooth as silk.

I'm curious about this - I couldn't find anything but .177 in the 1986-1993 Beeman catalogs. Does anyone know if .22 was available on the earlier San Rafael guns?  

Jim, is it possible you are thinking of an R10 as opposed to an R8?  I suppose the .22 you had could have been a custom one-off or something, but the power you mentioned seems too high - my understanding is that the R8 (and vinatage HW50 platform it's based on) can't achieve 12 fpe no matter how hot they are tuned.  I know my R8 averages just under 9 fpe with JSB 8.4's, which is about what I'd expect based on the old Beeman spec of 720 fps (presumably with lighter pellets). 


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Jim Bentley
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Posts: 119
2020-05-19 14:05:02  

@beeman22

No, it was an R8 and every detail about it showed it to be factory original.

I bought it from the original owner who mistakenly advertised it as an R9. He said that he bought it for his son years ago and the boy never got into shooting so he put in the back of his safe.


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