I have an itch for a new lead spitter and y'all know what that's like. I've admired the R9 for some time but never pushed the button on one. I really like the look of the new style stock on the current R9s and having an HW50S with the new style stock, I find it very "comfortable" to shoot and would expect the R9 to be much the same.
I don't really have a need for anything in the power range of the R9 in factory form but I've been reading the UK forums a bit lately and they seem to enjoy the 95 at 12ft-lb and under more than the FAC version. And at least one said they enjoyed shooting one at about 10ft-lbs. (I need to mention that the 10ft-lb 95 had a short stroke adapter added to the nose of the piston. Wish we had someone selling something like that here.) Can't help but think that dropping the R9's power down to around 11-12ft-lb would make it a good shooter. And the reduced cocking effort and calmer shot cycle would be pluses.
So, is anyone here shooting one of these at that power level? Would like to hear what you think of it if you are.
I just did the conversion on my HW98 with very good results. Easier to cock. Easier to shoot more consistant groups (less flyers due to jolt). I could not be happier. I just changed out to the vortek spring (not kit). Just over 12 footpounds now, but should settle in just under. Practice groups right after had 13 of 15 shots under a dime.
Sort of. I have an R9 clone, .177 RWS 320, that is currently shooting 7.9 pellets at right around 780 fps, for just shy of 11 FPE. It's an absolute joy to shoot.
Here comes the long story. I found the gun at Findlay a couple years ago. It was on the table of an obvious vintage Daisy collector, and looked about as out-of-place on his table as a boner in church. It looked pretty clean, but it didn't cock quite right. He told me he knew very little about it, and acquired it in trade as part of a bigger deal. He sold it to me at a reasonable price, and I had myself a project. When I got it home, I discovered something very unique. The gun has an RWS stamp on the tube, and the breach block is stamped RWS320, but the serial number on the other side is B320001. I took it apart and found a crumbling piston seal and a severely kinked spring. It took me days to scrape and clean out the remains of the deteriorated piston seal, but I managed to get the tube clean and shiny. A new sized JM Apex seal and Tarantula spring with a small spacer got it shooting again. I know that I could space up the Tarantula spring for more power, but I really love it where it is. So here I am, in possession of what is probably the very first edition of a totally worthless clone of a classic spring piston design.
So yes, an R9, (or its imitation) can be a very capable and friendly break-barrel at 12 FPE or less. I plan on keeping my 11 FPE 320, since it's one of my favorite shooters, and is probably of no value to anyone else but me. But it is kinda cool to know that I happened to find number one.
Hi, Jim. Good to hear from you. Thanks for the info. Glad to hear that you like the way your 320 shoots at the sub-12 level. And cool story about it, too.
I remember seeing several posts on the old Yellow about the 320 and it seems to me that it almost always got high praise (for what it is) from those who had one. So I wouldn't call it a worthless clone because I'm sure there are some out there who wish they still had theirs. I don't blame you for wanting to hold onto yours, if for nothing more than the cool story and the serial number it has. But it sounds like a nice shooter and that can make it a keeper, too.
Thanks again. I appreciate the input.
Hey Jim, just my two cents here--consider it a footnote.
With my experience of tuning many an R9/R10 or HW95/HW85 over the years, I had the chance to shoot them before a tune and after a tune. I test accuracy as part of my tuning efforts, so I was able to see what the rifles could do when they were all done. I put de-torquing parts in the piston as part of a tune, to eliminate accuracy problems related to spring torque, and those are definitely a plus. I also do other things that can improve accuracy.
If and when you should ever want to do it, IME a well-tuned R9 at approx. 14 FPE should be capable of as good accuracy results as a bone-stock, un-tuned 12 FPE version. I saw it here over and over again.
As far as cocking effort--there's hope there too: cross-hatching a receiver tube and using moly-based lubes in all the right places should also get the cocking down to a one-finger effort. I feel confident I could place a well-tuned 13-14 FPE R9 next to a factory stock R9 on my patio, and after shooting both, you'd be hard pressed to guess which one was which. That includes accuracy, cocking effort, and 'recoil'. When I say that, please keep in mind that while a DIY tune by an owner who's tuned one or two spring guns before can yield some good results, having one tuned by someone with lots of experience who really knows their work can yield even better results (as it really should be).
All that said, what if you take your R9 with a 12 FPE spring, then give it the very same tuning job I just described?? Ha, you've got me there! The tuned one would obviously respond in a similar manner to the thorough tuning job described above, and give much-upgraded results.
IMO, the really nice thing about buying an R9 (or HW95) is that the option to do a power upgrade is always 'ready and waiting' for you if you ever want to go that route. OTOH, other rifles like an R7, etc, are mostly-maxed-out at 6 or 7 FPE as they come out of the box, with maybe 1-2 additional FPE available to you when it comes to normal tuning options. Saying it another way, it can be a lot easier to decrease power than it is to increase it; or, 'you can kind of make an R9 shoot like an R7, but you can't make an R7 shoot like an R9'. Maybe you can see why--apparently like you--I'm such a fan of the R9.
You may remember reading posts that said spring rifles that shoot too-slow are actually subject to LESS accuracy due to the pellet being in the barrel for a longer period of time, forcing you to hold your sight picture that much longer to assure maximum possible accuracy. There's some truth in that--but it tends not to be as problematic with rifles like the R9 that now come with a shorter (16") carbine-length barrel. I.e. it used to be you could buy an R10 with either a 16" or full-length 19" barrel, and the 19" version is the one I'm referring to as far as less accuracy with longer shot times due to overly-slow pellets.
My Take: I don't know what the FPE laws are when it comes to air guns in Canada. But, I've been reading posts for a long time wherein the shooters in the UK advertise their terrific results using air guns that are tuned to give 12 FPE. I've come to believe that, perhaps, a large part of why they tout their good results at that power level is that they've been 'forced' to make it work, with necessity being the mother of invention. Some of the posts about it read to me almost as if 12 FPE is a totally-magic number, where even 13 FPE could never do as well, let alone 14+ FPE. That can't really be true, can it? If the need for an FAC license wasn't chasing them away, I think their posts about air guns shooting at other power levels might read a little differently.
Again, to sum up, I'm not contradicting the fact that lowering the power of a springer can often yield better accuracy results, and neither am I implying that the UK shooters are doing any less than they claim they are within the constraints they're often required to work.
Thanks for the input, Ed. As I mentioned in my original post, I don't have any need for a full power R9. But I think one detuned to around the 11-12ft-lb level would be a nice shooter, as well as being easier to cock. And it would still have plenty of power for any normal backyard pesting that might need done. And as you said, the option is always there to up the power again if wanted.
As far as the UK's 12ft-lb guns, I think you're probably right in that they've learned to make do with shooting them inside the power limits there. And they've no doubt perfected their tunes to make the guns respond accordingly at that power level. They also have aftermarket parts vendors who offer short stroke adapters for some guns, such as the HW80, 95, and 97. I'm sure that giving those guns a shorter quicker shot cycle to work with the 12ft-lb limit makes them nicer to shoot, too. Like I said above, I wish we had someone here that offered short stroke adapters like that. I can only imagine that a detuned and short stroked Diana 34 would be a pretty nice shooter.
But they can also own full power air rifles in the UK, as long as they have the proper license to do so. But I still see many saying that they prefer many guns at the 12ft-lb level over the full power version. Maybe part of that is what you were used to shooting growing up, I don't know. But, myself, I tend to prefer a mellower shooting gun these days. Which is why the thought of a reduced power R9 has my attention.
Thanks again, Ed. Appreciate your input on this.
Jim,
I have done several. I have used the Vortek kits with their moly seals. In my box I have several of the ARH kits but haven't got to them yet.
In .177, I prefer the 12 fpe range. With .22 cal, I like the Hornet kits.
It is hard to explain, but the Hornet kits are fast and feel like a new rubber band on the first stretch. The Vortek 12 fpe kits feels more relaxed like a well stretched rubber band. The HW 95k with the short barrel is very easy to cock, over and over.
I tuned my HW 98 with the 12 fpe Vortek, can't imagine one much better.
Now my HW 85 with the full length longer barrel, I tuned and polished it up, Vortek moly seal on the piston, and the ARH hornet spring nailed on the OEM rear guide and flange washer. It is shooting low 800's or so, and is like cocking a HW 30. So easy to cock and smooth shooting. It is my iron sight rig which is why I favored the full length barrel.
Another thing I do on my work along with polished flanges, I polish the rear plug bearing surface and remove the parting lines as seen here.
One of my 97's is packing the same Vortek kit, it is a dream to shoot also. So to sum it up, I prefer the range of 12 fpe indeed.
?
Jason G
Hi, Jim. Good to hear from you. Thanks for the info. Glad to hear that you like the way your 320 shoots at the sub-12 level. And cool story about it, too.
I remember seeing several posts on the old Yellow about the 320 and it seems to me that it almost always got high praise (for what it is) from those who had one. So I wouldn't call it a worthless clone because I'm sure there are some out there who wish they still had theirs. I don't blame you for wanting to hold onto yours, if for nothing more than the cool story and the serial number it has. But it sounds like a nice shooter and that can make it a keeper, too.
Thanks again. I appreciate the input.
FWIW, I've been led to believe that an actual Rekord trigger unit is a direct pin-for-pin swap, and the action supposedly fits perfectly in an HW stock. Seeing parts available on the classifieds, I've been tempted to "upgrade." But having serial number 001, I've chosen to keep it as close to original as I can. Silly, I guess, since its just a Chinese clone of a really good platform, but its a REALLY good copy, and at this tune level, its one of my favorite guns. It's currently scoped with an older RWS300 4X32AO in a BKL 260 mount. Just love it.
Hi, Jason. Good info. Thanks! I forgot that you had reduced the power on some of your HWs. Glad to hear that you like the way they shoot at the 12ft-lb level.
As I mentioned earlier I was thinking about JM's adjustable UK kit. That way if I should ever want to up the power it would be a simple matter of just dropping in the other spacers.
BTW, the little guy looks like he was having fun when that pic was taken.
Hey, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. LOL
A few years ago I got a B26 from Mike at Flying Dragon because I had read good things about them. It's a decent copy of the HW95/R9 but from the pics I've seen of the old 320s I don't think the fit and finish of the B26 is as good as the 320s were. I've never tried to put an actual Rekord trigger in the B26 but it seems like I've read that the location of some of the pins is a little different on the B26 trigger.
The B26 made a great "gateway gun", lol. It made me want something that had the real deal Rekord trigger. So a couple years later an HW30S found a home here. That was followed by a 50S and then a 35K. And now I have the itch for an R9, lol.
