If you were looking at both of these air rifles, which one would you choose and why?
if there are other underlever cocking rifles or others that have a stationary barrel that are in the class of these 2 that you would rather have for paper shooting, please post.
I have had both and prefer the TX hands down. My HW77 and HW97's were both tuned, and my TX untuned was a much smoother shooter. I put off tuning the TX for several years, not believing that it could be improved. Like Ron White says, "I was wrong!" It is now miles ahead of the HW's. My ProSport is even sweeter!
If the bear trap bothers you it is easily defeated.
This has been discussed much, I too wondered the same once, bought one, then bought the other, and like gremlins and water, they multiplied. I ended up with 2 each. A 12 fpe model (or little less) in each and a full power one each.
Hard to say really, I do like the softer shooting ones in either. To me, the HW97 just feels more robust, the barrel is solid. The TX is shrouded so I always felt the need to be more careful. But some have mentioned 100k shots thru their TX 200's so they must be robust.
The TX is a breeze to service. I like the stock better, and the trigger reach feels shorter.
Tough choice, here are mine if it helps,
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Jason Garvin
Oh, the safety button above is bearing grade bronze, most likely self lubricated. Our old buddy T. Murray, airgunner, plinker, tinker, turned this out for me, he is in the skilled trades machinist, and done real well. It is the smoothest safety I have ever felt.
The TX200 MK3 has a too-long stroke, makes for a shot cycle that's too lazy when tuned down and a more lively than necessary shot cycle at full power. The heavy weight negates it mostly, but it's still there. The early ones with the shorter stroke would close the gap, but I'd still get the HW97. The TX has the cocking shoe that can cause lockup issues over time as well, as the cocking arm link and pins wear out. The awkward anti-beartrap catch is a pain. The ball bearing underlever retainer makes it sketchy to fit a sling for hunting, this is a huge deal for me but not for most I guess. The TX is fancier though if that is your thing. And it would be a better shooter than the HW if you got it in .22 since Weihrauch keeps making oversized .22 caliber barrels.
I like to hunt and have a very versatile rifle. The HW77K fits the bill for me. I have a few and keep one setup with open sights for a change of pace or close up work. I have had multiples of the TX200 and TX200HC and the HW97, 77, 77K. None of the TXs were ever anymore accurate than the Weihrauchs, and none of them would make the same power as the Weihrauchs oddly enough.
Either one would serve you well, neither are junk by any means. I know I sound critical but when you work on, shoot, and own both at the same time, you can start to pick out the little details. Get what you feel would suit you best.
I’ve owned both, sold the HW because I consistently shoot more accurately with my TX. Not saying one rifle is “better” than the other, I’m saying the TX is best for me, for my build and shooting style. There are many people who have had the exact opposite experience from the many reviews I’ve read. I would also point out that the TX is incredibly easy to work on, with no spring compressor needed, and if you shoot a lot you will be be changing springs from time to time.
This is a classic debate that has been discussed for years in the air rifle community, and unfortunately the answer is probably not going to be found on the internet. (I looked, believe me) There is really only one way to decide, and that is to shoulder and shoot both. Best of luck.
The TX200 MK3 has a too-long stroke, makes for a shot cycle that's too lazy when tuned down and a more lively than necessary shot cycle at full power. The heavy weight negates it mostly, but it's still there. The early ones with the shorter stroke would close the gap, but I'd still get the HW97. The TX has the cocking shoe that can cause lockup issues over time as well, as the cocking arm link and pins wear out. The awkward anti-beartrap catch is a pain. The ball bearing underlever retainer makes it sketchy to fit a sling for hunting, this is a huge deal for me but not for most I guess. The TX is fancier though if that is your thing. And it would be a better shooter than the HW if you got it in .22 since Weihrauch keeps making oversized .22 caliber barrels.
I like to hunt and have a very versatile rifle. The HW77K fits the bill for me. I have a few and keep one setup with open sights for a change of pace or close up work. I have had multiples of the TX200 and TX200HC and the HW97, 77, 77K. None of the TXs were ever anymore accurate than the Weihrauchs, and none of them would make the same power as the Weihrauchs oddly enough.
Either one would serve you well, neither are junk by any means. I know I sound critical but when you work on, shoot, and own both at the same time, you can start to pick out the little details. Get what you feel would suit you best.
Chase makes a good point. I do find the 12 fpe HW97 more efficient with a quicker cycle. The 12 fpe TX 200 of mine feels more like a well stretched out rubber band if you will. I will say I have owned both in .22's also. Both were dead nuts squirrel killing machines, but I was able to get 720 fps plus steady out of the Tx200, which would clean take the heads off birds at 45 yds. The HW97 would max out around 680 fps, but would still break the spine of nutters up in the tops of trees.
The .22 97 like the fat H&N Ftt's, and the .22 TX200 liked the JSB's.
Gorgeous pics Jason! Like ALL your photos, these induce AG-envy every time!! You MUST sell these to me! (Seriously, if you ever need to make room for future acquisitions, please contact me.)
Gorgeous pics Jason! Like ALL your photos, these induce AG-envy every time!! You MUST sell these to me! (Seriously, if you ever need to make room for future acquisitions, please contact me.)
Not to highjack this thread by any means. Just had to say, Jason that has got to be the absolute sweetest shooting bench set up I have ever seen. The gravel is a really nice touch, especially when it's been raining I bet.
I have never owned a TX or HW, but I have shot them both. The TX seems more refined. Think of it like this, the TX is like a cadillac car and the HW a 2018 chevy truck. As far as history goes. I believe the HW77 was the top airgun for field target back in the day. Then AA came out with the TX to compete with the HW77. Then later on HW designed the HW97 to be a bit more refined looking and an update the the HW77. Or at least that's what I have read.
I sold my TX and HW when I got my LGU. The Walther with the tuning trigger shoots lights-out for me. Never cared for the TX200 in .22 much. It was accurate but loopy compared to either in .177
My Diana 430L just showed up and I am really liking it too. Half the price of any mentioned so far and likes every pellet I have fed it.
Honestly you can't really go wrong with either the TX or 97. They are both great rifles and you will find people that swear by each. The HW has a larger loading port and a Rekord trigger. The TX is a work of art that shoots. Can't lose either way...
Gorgeous pics Jason! Like ALL your photos, these induce AG-envy every time!! You MUST sell these to me! (Seriously, if you ever need to make room for future acquisitions, please contact me.)
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You'd shoot your eye out ? ?
Jason
That's okay, I'd only need one to shoot with anyway!
Not to highjack this thread by any means. Just had to say, Jason that has got to be the absolute sweetest shooting bench set up I have ever seen. The gravel is a really nice touch, especially when it's been raining I bet.
I have never owned a TX or HW, but I have shot them both. The TX seems more refined. Think of it like this, the TX is like a cadillac car and the HW a 2018 chevy truck. As far as history goes. I believe the HW77 was the top airgun for field target back in the day. Then AA came out with the TX to compete with the HW77. Then later on HW designed the HW97 to be a bit more refined looking and an update the the HW77. Or at least that's what I have read.
Ray
Yep, that bench doesn't wiggle either. I got bored one Saturday, ran to town and grabbed some AC2 treated, framed it up in the barn. My wife, brother and myself, carried the frame down to the range, and I decked it out there. My brother said, don't call him again. It was heavy.....lol. And the rest is history. Here are some more pics,
I have had both the Hw77K and two TX200s. The choice is personal. They are all excellent rifles... I sold all of my spring guns except my ProSport which I shoot most every day. I have had and sold many guns over the years and the only one that I really would want back is that HW77. There are also other options now from both Walther and RWS/Diana. It's just personal choice.
Way back in I guess 1990 or so I was at an airgun match and had an opportunity to shoot an HW77K. That was on a Sunday and Monday I ordered mine.
If price is a concern, check out Krale’s HW97, probably $410 delivered to your door. For looks alone, that TX200 is purty!
For underlever performance in a break barrel, check out the Walther LGV Master Pro, the barrel positive lockup is rock solid. Very accurate gun that comes threaded for a silencer for easy install.
I’ve owned both, sold the HW because I consistently shoot more accurately with my TX. Not saying one rifle is “better” than the other,..
This is a classic debate that has been discussed for years in the air rifle community...
I wondered where this would go. I've seen it several times before. It often splits about 50/50. and this time seems to be no exception as I took a quick tally of the answers. It reminds me of the 'What's the best ammo?' question in that way.
I've tuned and repaired both, then shot-tested them afterwards. The good news here is that no matter which you choose, you're still going to win--unless you get the rare lemon, and your dealer will probably take care of you in short order if that happens.
If you can't decide based on performance reports, how would you feel about going on looks, curb appeal that is? They DO look different. And, the TX is available with a beautiful walnut stock right from the factory for not much more money. It's one handsome gun. You'd have to see one in person to appreciate it IMO.
Of course, when it come to looks, the HW97 offers you something unique with the nickel-plated version (if you can find one). (I'm not helping, am I?)
Not to highjack this thread by any means. Just had to say, Jason that has got to be the absolute sweetest shooting bench set up I have ever seen. The gravel is a really nice touch, especially when it's been raining I bet.
I have never owned a TX or HW, but I have shot them both. The TX seems more refined. Think of it like this, the TX is like a cadillac car and the HW a 2018 chevy truck. As far as history goes. I believe the HW77 was the top airgun for field target back in the day. Then AA came out with the TX to compete with the HW77. Then later on HW designed the HW97 to be a bit more refined looking and an update the the HW77. Or at least that's what I have read.
Ray
Yep, that bench doesn't wiggle either. I got bored one Saturday, ran to town and grabbed some AC2 treated, framed it up in the barn. My wife, brother and myself, carried the frame down to the range, and I decked it out there. My brother said, don't call him again. It was heavy.....lol. And the rest is history. Here are some more pics,
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Jason G
Jason
Would it be possible to get some measurements on your bench?
Yep, that bench doesn't wiggle either. I got bored one Saturday, ran to town and grabbed some AC2 treated, framed it up in the barn. My wife, brother and myself, carried the frame down to the range, and I decked it out there. My brother said, don't call him again. It was heavy.....lol. And the rest is history. Here are some more pics,
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Jason G
Jason... that's an awesome shooting bench... if my wife asks me to make a picnic table out in our gas line right-of-way where I do most of my outdoor shooting, this is what I would want to build... heck, I might build one any ways an see if my wife joins me, while I'm eating a picnic lunch during one of my shooting sessions... I might even find an air rifle for her to enjoy too !
I only have experience with the HW97K vs the 200. I went with the 97 because that what I liked/wanted. I’m sure the 200 is very nice also and they have their fans too.
I have several of each the tx200 and hw97 -I like the trigger on the tx200 a bit more than the 97 - cosmetically , the tx200 mk3 has the nicer black chrome bluing as well as the nicer [ imho ] fish scale checkering -- the 97 is a fine air gun - I would choose the tx200 if I had to choose one -
You cannot go wrong with either airgun they are both great shooters and equal in the accuracy department,I have rifles and carbines and they all impress me everytime I shoot them at field target matches...
This may not be helpful to the OP, but I'm going to say it anyway: You can't go wrong with either...but you'll never know which one you like better until you have tried both. I agree with just about everything said here. HW97 is easier to load, less expensive, and has no annoying click-click-click anti-beartrap; TX200 is easier to service, generally better "tuned" right from the factory, has nicer bluing and very nice optional walnut stock. I prefer the TX trigger placement compared to the HW's that aren't as set back.
Personally, I have two of each. And if I had to rank them by preference, it would be like this:
.22 HW97 Blue laminate Jan Kraner tuned (16.5fpe)
.177 TX200 Mark II Walnut - tuned by somebody good (13 fpe)
.177 HW97 David Slade tuned (12 fpe)
.177 TX200 Mark III with amazing walnut- factory condition, not tuned
To me, this makes no sense: the one I consider to be the least attractive and highest powered of the bunch is my favorite to shoot, and I generally prefer lower-powered guns that are really pretty. Why is this? It's a combination of factors that I can't clearly articulate and no amount of research was going to reveal to me - I just had to try them out.
So my advice is to do the research, then trust your gut (or flip a coin) and just go for the gold on one of them and start saving up for the other. They're both finely built and shoot amazingly well.
I won't weigh in on the TX/97 - Ford/Chevy debate. The OP asked if there are other underlever fixed barrel springers to consider. I would offer two vintage rifles to consider. The first is an early 25mm compression tube HW77 with the full length barrel. (Not the K model.) Rekord trigger, remarkable accuracy, great handling, and a very enjoyable shot cycle. The second is even more weird: Webley Eclipse. If you can find one, they are quite remarkable. Be forewarned. They have a steel piston in an aluminum compression tube, so be prepared to button the piston. But an absolutely beautiful rifle, with near perfect balance and handling.
Another vintage option is the BSA Airsporter, which is a drop-dead-gorgeous fixed barrel underlever, but suffers from a relatively short cocking lever, ( a consequence of making it totally concealed, which is what makes it so pretty!) Lots of cocking effort for relatively low power.
Were I to buy new, I'd opt for an HW77 from Krale for around $400 shipped to my door.
I won't weigh in on the TX/97 - Ford/Chevy debate. The OP asked if there are other underlever fixed barrel springers to consider. I would offer two vintage rifles to consider. The first is an early 25mm compression tube HW77 with the full length barrel. (Not the K model.) Rekord trigger, remarkable accuracy, great handling, and a very enjoyable shot cycle. The second is even more weird: Webley Eclipse. If you can find one, they are quite remarkable. Be forewarned. They have a steel piston in an aluminum compression tube, so be prepared to button the piston. But an absolutely beautiful rifle, with near perfect balance and handling.
I agree the Webley Eclipse is a very nice underlever springer.
I have a Beeman import one in .177... it was actually the 2nd springer air rifle that I purchased, back in the early 1990s, and I still have it and enjoy shooting it... bought from a local firearms shop that was also a Beeman dealer... loved that shop, and still miss it !
Much lighter than the HW77K that I purchased from an estate sale some time after that, but the HW77K has a better (Rekord) trigger, and more accurate, although I think the previous owner may have ordered it from Beeman with a "super-tune", but I'm not positive... just seemed to be everything that the Doc Beeman wrote about and suggested in one of his Precision Airgun Guides.
I always wanted to do at least a "lube tune" on the Eclipse to experience any differences, but I have yet to do it... still on my to-do list !
I never installed any piston buttons on any airguns... kind of afraid I would screw something up.
First time posting in quit awhile, been gone for 2-3 yrs. Sold my HW97, just did not like the 10+lb. with a scope, I know it is supposed to help in a springer, I am going to try a HW77 next, or maybe the 57, any thoughts on that?
I have both and the HW77K as well. I urge you to go and pick them up and shoot them for yourself because everyone is different when it comes to their preferences and choose the one that you feel the most comfortable shooting.
The GAMO CFX is another to consider but you need to find a good one. Best bang for the used buck if you get a good one.
Thank you all for the help and advice. I’ve been reading and watching videos of both of these and one thing that concerns me is the cocking effort. There was one video review of the TX200 I watched where the guy talked about how cocking it was a chore.....twice. When a respected airgun gun makes it a point of telling how hard it is to cock....that says STAY AWAY for me. I don’t have the strength I used to have and I don’t want to stress every time I shoot it. It is a beautiful rifle though.
I have the TX in lefty,beautiful rifle,accurate as can be,the problem for me is loading it,not fun for big hand and size 13 ring fingers..I know I could get better,but my fingers are worn and I just don't shoot it because of that....so I would go for the easiest to load.
I bought another HW97K. This one is the Blackline .177. That will make 3 of them I own. They aren't as nice as my TX200 MKIII .22. But I think they are more accurate. But to be fair I have only shot my first one so far. Just going off of what I seen so far.
The TX200 is not hard to cock, but the HC (hunter carbine) makes it a lot more difficult. Both are much easier if you place a 12 ft lb spring in them. Similar in effort to a HW97. I enjoy both the HW97 and the TX200, but find myself shooting the TX more often. Both are fantastically accurate.
I have had a Beeman R1 almost from the day the good Doctor started selling them.I also have a sweet shooting HW35E.
When I first heard about PyramydAir, my killing partner in Kansas had just bought a TX200. He had ordered one with a beech stock but because he had to wait so long, PA sent him one with walnut. I looked at the site and I thought I might get into PCP rifles and ordered a Marauder in .22 (the R1 was .177). The .22 was spectacular and I shot benchrest a bit with it. Then I heard about FT starting up again (I tried a little of it before 911) and no one told me I could de-tune the .22 so I sold it and bought a .177 Marauder. It has been gone and back to me three times and now will stay. But, to the question. My friend in KS could not stop bragging about the TX so I ordered one. It is fine. Not great. Fine. I do not like the way the cocking handle locks up to the barrel. Once (several times since) while shooting off of the bench, the cocking handle dropped down and I touched off. Now, I have shot PB magnum rifles all my life, but when I touched off the TX and the cocking arm swung up, I could swear it was a .300 Weatherby going off. The cocking arm hit the barrel shroud with such force, it turned in to a upside down smile (frown). The arm would not lock up..I called PA and they said to send it back and they would fix it (BTW, PA carries a TX cocking arm on their site,for sale..) as it was under warranty. I said, I would take care of it. Now the cocking arm on the TX is hollow (weight) so I placed some turkish towels between the barrel and cocking arm and squeezed like I was trying to get the last dollar out of Uncle Sam. Voila. Actually, a bit too much. I squeezed a bit the other way and it straightened out. This same issue has happened three times during a FT match and I have been able to straighten it during the match to continue. I know the HW77, 97 all use a push button to release the cocking arm and I find that to be better and if I were buying a under-lever for the first time, the HWs would be my pick. Another reason I didn’t want to return my TX to PA, I was afraid they would just replace it and keep mine. As you can see, I could not let that happen..
I have had a Beeman R1 almost from the day the good Doctor started selling them.I also have a sweet shooting HW35E.
When I first heard about PyramydAir, my "killing partner" in Kansas...
"Killing partner"?? That's a new one on me. I feel safe in assuming that term is some tongue-in-cheek air gun pest control or hunting humor that you were hoping someone would notice. I did.
Yeah, basically like I said. I didn't know the part about larger game, but it still fits. I also assumed you killed them before you ate them, whatever 'they' might be. Trying to stick a fork in moving game can be a totally-fruitless endeavor.
Can you measure the length of pull on the TX and the 97? I too would like to own one or both someday but being tall and lanky makes short guns no fun. I had to put a 1.125" spacer between the stock and pad on my 48 and it could probably still use another half inch
Sometimes a picture is worth a little more. These things are verrry close in length of pull. At least to me. In the real world. You might be best to use spacers?
@bob-in-wv Amen on what Bob just said! I have owned two TX200's and after I purchased my 2nd one I immediately realized why I sold the first one. If you have big hands the pellets to the breech are much harder to load. Once and a while I will drop one into the breech of my HW97's but no where near as much as the alternative. I think the fps of the Air Arms is a little stronger but I think my HW97's have better accuracy.
Had my TX200 out this morning, first time in years. First 3 shots high 1/2. Made sight adjustment next 5 shot grp put a smile on my face. Rediscovering my springers.
