🤔 2 Curious GAPs wi...
 
Notifications
Clear all

🤔 2 Curious GAPs with JSBs....  

  RSS

JungleShooter
(@jungleshooter)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 148
July 4, 2020 21:25:55  

2 Curious GAPs with JSBs.... 🤔

I've been looking at what pellet (and slug) options are available to me if I increased the power of one of my .22 guns.

➔ And I found two gaping gaps in the offerings from the Czech Republic, namely JSB....

Now I do like the quality they produce, they are great! 👍🏼 😊 

🔶 However, why do they not offer any of their great-quality products in the weight range between 19gr and 24gr...? 🤔 
Or in the weight range from 26 to 33...? 🤔 

🔶 E.g., they offer 7(!) pellets in 16-18 grain, and 5(!) pellets in 25gr. And nothing else in between.... It almost seems like they believe that these two weights are all that airgunners need....

🔶 Considering around 900fps as ideal muzzle — JSB offers no projectiles for guns that have a muzzle energy of 34FPE to 43FPE. Nor for guns with a ME of 47 to 60FPE.
To me these are two big gaps....

JSB, are you reading this? 😊

🔶 Anyhow, I found this so curious (and a bit annoying because I'd love to have more choices) — I ended up comparing this with the offer of the other big manufacturer that produces outstanding qualityH&N in Germany.

➔ In the diagram below you can see what I found. 🤔 

Matthias

PS: JSB, are you reading this? 😊

 

JSB Pellets    2 Curious G APs with JSBs. 02

Bob in WV thanked
Quote
Topic Tags
Hector J Medina G
(@hector-j-medina-g)
Member of Trade
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 458
July 10, 2020 11:01:38  

Matthias;

It's all about the different manufacturing processes.

H&N starts directly from wire (faster production) that is cut into short lengths as the pellet starts being made.

JSB starts from a single strand that gets squished into a "ribbon of pearls" that then get punched out as pretty little spheres, the Pre-forms.

H&N can have higher production output rates and a larger variety, but suffers when it comes to very deep indents/punches, or thin skirts.

JSB makes very efficient pellets (thin skirts that seal well) and better weight distribution (more forward than the geometrical center of the pellet or the Pressure Center of the shape).

It USED to be that pre-forms ensured better weight consistency but nowadays the two methods yield about the same weight consistency and it is up to the manufacturer to sort, the wire cuts or the pre-forms, by weight. To my knowledge, none of the two manufacturers mentioned does this.

 

Beyond that, you need to look at the PRACTICAL side.

A 25 grs. 0.22" is about as heavy as you need. The 34 exists because it is a pre-form they use for the 0.25" but if my guess is right, it is one of the least sold pellets.

At those power levels, the slugs will soon displace the heavy skirted pellets; and the change MAY be driven by the Wholesalers/Importers of record and their cash-rich competitions. When those allow slugs (and both said they would allow them WHEN they were widely available), the Über-Heavy skirted pellet will go out the door for good.

JMHO

 

 

 

 

 

HM


ReplyQuote
Bigbore
(@bigbore)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 74
July 10, 2020 13:47:56  

 I'll surmise that once you get to a certain weight, minute differences become less important.


ReplyQuote
JungleShooter
(@jungleshooter)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 148
July 10, 2020 15:16:56  

Hector, 😊

I always appreciate your tremendous technical understanding and rare inside knowledge!

Very interesting details! THANKS! 👍🏼

 

Yes, you're right, I don't need anything heavier in .22 than 25 grains.

It's more about that other vast stretch of nothingness between 19 and 24 grains that I'm interestend in (for 34 to 43FPE of ME for 900fps MV).

 

🔶 All we have in high quality is RWS's Power Bolt (n/a in the US, and prohibitively expensive), Crosmans 19gr "Ultra Heavy" with a lousy BC of 0.021 at most), and the very good H&N Baracuda. Finis.... 😟

 

🔶Of course, if I was shooting .25 caliber I'd really have something to whine about.... — in .22 we're still doing pretty good! 😊

 

Matthias

 


ReplyQuote
ribbonstone
(@ribbonstone)
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 314
July 10, 2020 18:24:02  

Lets see if you can promote the GAP.

 

Aas JSB's tend to share weights over the caliber spectrum,figured they were using the same basic weights /lengths of unformed "swaged slugs" as they fed them into the spilit  pellet swage dies.

 

So we get stuff like 13.5-13.7gr.  .177/20/22pellets...or 15.9-16.2gr..177/20/22pellets ...or 25.4gr. 22 or .25 pellets.

 

If you can make them buy into a new weight....lets say 20gr 5MM/22/25.....then good for you (but I suspect they are looking at their demand/volume of production/profit).


ReplyQuote
Hector J Medina G
(@hector-j-medina-g)
Member of Trade
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 458
July 11, 2020 18:57:18  
Posted by: @jungleshooter

Hector, 😊

I always appreciate your tremendous technical understanding and rare inside knowledge!

Very interesting details! THANKS! 👍🏼

 

Yes, you're right, I don't need anything heavier in .22 than 25 grains.

It's more about that other vast stretch of nothingness between 19 and 24 grains that I'm interestend in (for 34 to 43FPE of ME for 900fps MV).

 

🔶 All we have in high quality is RWS's Power Bolt (n/a in the US, and prohibitively expensive), Crosmans 19gr "Ultra Heavy" with a lousy BC of 0.021 at most), and the very good H&N Baracuda. Finis.... 😟

 

🔶Of course, if I was shooting .25 caliber I'd really have something to whine about.... — in .22 we're still doing pretty good! 😊

 

Matthias

 

OK, Matthias, thanks for your kind words but, please, enlighten me. What is so magical about those power levels?

Are you trying to achieve a high BC with a skirted pellet? I cannot think of a CONSISTENTLY SHOOTABLE spring piston airgun capable of delivering that level of power (remember the discussion is about 0.22" cal). Even JW's would groan and moan, and you are talking there of $4,000 +  worth of airgun, ergo: scarce, uncommon and commercially unviable.

I've seen some claims about some Hatsans (specially the custom long barrelled 135's)  that purport to do this, but the only time I have tried, they are truly unshootable for any length of time/number of shots. 2-3 shots OK, 6-7 is getting into the "hard", in the 12 to the baker's dozen region I am sure 90% of the shooters would be flinching. So, it's not for spring-piston airguns in that caliber.

But, still, let's assume that for some reason you want a waisted pellet, I would suggest you contact NOE Bullet Molds, and ask for a custom version of their 217-24 RF HB CC2 and request a series of punches that can reduce the volume of material in the skirt. You will then be able to cast your own with pure lead:

image

Just make sure that you "slug" your barrel in the NON-CHOKED portion and relay that information to  NOE, they can then cut the mold for PURE LEAD (not too common in casting circles) and to the proper groove and land diameters.

Note it is a nose pour mold, so that means that the meplat will ALWAYS be there, still the BC is not bad at all.

 

Now, let's analyze the case of a PCP, in that case IF you choose to swage your pellets/"boolits", also from pure lead Corbin manufacturing makes dies for the purpose and the dies allow you to "taylor" the total weight and the degree of "closure" in a HP:

image

You still need to "slug" the barrel because the slug's body needs to ride on the lands and the sealing/driving band needs to ride on the bottom of grooves.

Either way, you will become independent (if you so wish)  of the commercial offerings.

It is a rather large initial investment, but in the end, you will have much fun and learn a lot and, IMHO, that is what life is all about.

😉

 

Keep well and shoot straight!

 

 

 

HM


ReplyQuote