Who can reseal Hamm...
 

Who can reseal Hammerli Master air pistols?  

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DLFreeborn
(@dlfreeborn)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 4
2018-03-21 21:08:27  

Please advise if you know of someone that can reseal my beloved Hammerli Master match pistol.

Thank you!

David

IMG 20151019 182152 349


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marflow
(@marflow)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 634
2018-03-21 23:15:03  

well get a tissue and read this store and look at the date posted

I have a masters that was done by Rudy in 2008 for the guy I bought it from so we could all be in the same boat     from what I have seen on You Tube these are a bitch to get apart, special tools needed, that is one problem parts are no where to be found but o-rings can be got

sorry I don't have better news

http://www.nationalgunforum.com/airguns-such/16552-hammerli-update.html

there has to be someone out there but Rudy was the man but he would be 90 now

take care and good luck

mike

 

I do have a factory owners manual and in the manual it does list all of the o-ring sizes in the cut away pictures

my email  mlwolfram@msn.com

 

Mike


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T-Higgs
(@t-higgs)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 47
2018-03-24 09:56:42  

Just to backup what marflow said, I had a master that I bought out of a private collection auction. The pistol had been rebuilt by Rudy Marent. From what I’ve read, he was the only guy around that would even work on the Hammerli pistols and was the master at it. I sold the pistol about a year ago to a buddy in Spokane. My master had the plastic grips and the buyer really wanted the wood grips. I called the number I had for Rudy to see if he had any spare grips or if he could confirm a few things I had read about grips from Hammerli powder burner pistols fitting the master frame. I never got a response. If he’s still with us, he’d be 90 and has probably hung up the lathe. If you could find him and get him to rebuild your pistol, it waould be amazing and an outstanding piece of Rudy’s 60-70 year airgun smithing legacy. It would be worth some investigation. 

If it doesn’t work out, I know a guy that would buy you wood grips lol. 

Good luck, let us know if you find anything out. 

Higgs

Shoot long enough and you’ll have a one hole group...


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ddmann
(@ddmann)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 5
2018-03-24 10:11:06  

Love my Hammerli's and as far as I know finding an airgunsmith for the Master can be difficult.  I believe Randy Brimrose will still work on them, but with Randy there a couple of caveats to consider.  Firstly it has been known for years that Randy can take quite a while to do repair work.  If you need a quick turnaround Randy is not your guy.  Add to that I heard recently that Mr. Brimrose is retiring from airgun work.  I was told he has health concerns, let's hope for the best eh.


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pistolero
(@pistolero)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 317
2018-03-24 13:47:26  

I might be able to reseal your Master, but have not responded to your post before now because I'm always hesitant to work on others' stuff. To be honest, I'd hoped someone else would respond to reseal your Hammerli, so I wouldn't have to.

I really, REALLY love the vintage Hammerli Co2 guns, have owned several myself, but have only resealed one of my own in the 1980's (a Master). I had to make a tool to remove the valve body, but (of course) still have the tool. Once I had the valve body out and was able to round up the right o-rings, the reseal went well and was successful.

Since it appears no-one else is stepping up to help you, I might be willing to give it a shot with some conditions. The first condition is this, we need to TALK. My phone number is 254-253-1239. BTW, I don't consider texting to be conversation.

 

 

"No brag; just fact."- Will Sonnett


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marflow
(@marflow)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 634
2018-03-24 14:16:14  

first I'm with you, working on someone else's gun is always nerve racking

the valve in the Hammerli's are screwed in ????? and the valve has cut outs on either side so you have too make a tube size screw drive of sorts ????

I have the factory owners manual and that has the parts diagram cut away pictures and that has the all of the o-ring sizes and part numbers, of course there are no parts but it helps

it's like anything else the first ones hard and the 10th one is old hat

so the bottom line is someone starts working on them, the owner step up to the plate and try or they all become paper weights

I have always thought you can't break something that is broken but you can try to repair it with the thought it can't get worse

if and when you take on this project, would you please take a few---lots---of picture so people in the future have a rough guide, on the how to side

I always look for a cheap Single to dissect but have never found one

take care

mike

Mike


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simonspain
(@simonspain)
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 24
2018-04-10 12:13:16  

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 Hi, I have just bought two Hammerli Master pistols ...used of course. One seems later ...as the number is higher....and seems to have more adjustment in the trigger. The other is brand new, boxed with the original test target and is a lower number and the markings are deeper an nicely done. This gun however leaks CO2 the second the tigger is pulled....out the trigger unit also. Can anyone post or send me the manual or ideas. It looks 'simple' enough but it may be a real education...haha!! Warm regards to everyone from Granada, Spain. 🙂


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marflow
(@marflow)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 634
2018-04-10 14:22:50  

well have you read the all the post on this thread, if not do so

there are no parts for these old pistols and here in the state no one to work on them

and if there is no  one in Spain to help you, it would be up to you to fix them

did you get a factory owners manual with either pistol

the valve screws into the tube so you would have to make a tool for that task just to start

great looking pistols, I hope you got them cheap

Mike


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simonspain
(@simonspain)
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 24
2018-04-10 17:26:03  

I got the two guns for 325 euros which is about 400 USD. Yes, I read that it's up to me and I'm ok with that and can get stuff made if needed. The pistol is unused, so I think the seals have just dried out or split but I won't know until I take it apart. No manuals hence I am asking here as I saw that at least one owner has a manual he was willing to share. Valve screw seems to just need a slim piece of bar stock that will fit in the slots. It seems to be turning with a very large driver I have, but it's not quite wide enough and I am in no hurry to mess it up with the wrong tool. Any manuals would be great. Thanks again and good to chat! Email is

simonspain63@gmail.com

PS The pistol with the handmade wooden grips works perfectly, it's the other 'mint' one that needs looking into. The working one seems to be a later pistol as I have seen that the plastic grips that originally came with this pistol (slightly different receiver/cylinder etching) are a much lighter tan. 


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simonspain
(@simonspain)
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 24
2018-04-11 07:16:04  

Hi guys.....got a type of tool to unscrew the main valve where the two slots are but it has unscrewed and is now just turning but unable to slide or come out as it's a pretty snug fit.....how the heck does one now take the loose valve cap out? Aluminium so magnet won't work....needs more 'extraction' force than that anyway. 🙁


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oldair
(@oldair)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 16
2018-04-11 12:20:23  

Simon,

The valve body has a large female thread (M12 X 1.0 if I remember right) to extract it out the back of the gun.  Years ago I stumbled across a large-bore inflation valve extension .482-26 tpi for off-road tires, that fit these threads well enough to work so I never bothered to make a tool. 

The other way to apply force rearward is to use some kind of rod through the barrel, shoving against the "CO2 passage tube" which is kinda fragile.  You might use this method while rotating the valve back & forth to coax it out but do be gentle - worked for me on a couple guns before the lucky valve stem discovery.

Good luck with your project!

Don R.


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simonspain
(@simonspain)
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 24
2018-04-11 14:17:43  

Ok...that's great advice, thanks Don! 🙂 


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simonspain
(@simonspain)
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 24
2018-04-11 15:21:24  

Hi Don......sorry to bother you again. I tried using a cleaning rod with brush pushing it into the barrel and testing with a very little pressure. It seems to find resistance where the two knobs are that you push forward to open the breech. Should the gun be cocked or uncocked when pushing into the barrel? I have put the tiniest squirt of WD 4o where the valve is and it turns freely enough and I imagined would just slowly drop out when the gun was pointed up and I was turning the valve anti- clockwise ....but it doesn't want to drop out. Maybe suction of some sort or something super-sticky to help gain purchase. 🙁


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marflow
(@marflow)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 634
2018-04-11 17:04:45  

well stop with the wd-40 because that will need to be cleaned up and if I had to guess you take the front of the gun

in the pictures the hammer is in front of the valve, make sense, and if you cock it the trigger holds the hammer so you can not push the hammer against the loose valve

now there is a tube that runs through the hammer that brings the gas to the front of the gun behind the pellet and it looks like there is a reducer to bring the pressure up

now the barrel is threaded into the tube in the front and when that is removed the hammer come out the front but you have to remove the pellet loader first

so you ask how do I know this, well I have a factory owners manual and there are cut away pictures that show all the parts and pieces, but it doesn't tell you the how to, you have to do that by reverse building the pistol

so if the front comes apart then you have no problem with the valve removal, is it more work, YES, but I think that is the right way and why it cost so much to rebuild these pistol

they are well built but they are not easy to work on, if you had done 10 of them you would just say there not bad, but for the first timer you are scratching your A$$ going how the hell does this come apart

 

I just scanned my owners manual into my computer if someone would like to post it I will send it to you to do just that, if you what or need a copy I will send it to you, if you just what certain pages you tell me  

this information is hard to come by and should be reference material for all 

take care

mike

 

mlwolfram@msn.com

Mike


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simonspain
(@simonspain)
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 24
2018-04-11 17:08:05  

This confirms your rod in the barrel idea Don! 🙂 

Mike on here just sent me the whole manual in English! What a great guy! 

page 16 001


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simonspain
(@simonspain)
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 24
2018-04-11 17:54:03  

Step one taken! Manual helped as the valve needs a push it can't just fall out due to the o ring seals.

IMG 5997
IMG 5996
IMG 5995


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oldair
(@oldair)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 16
2018-04-12 09:53:52  

Very good, looks like you used the rod-through-barrel approach.  I would have suggested using a solid rod of aluminum or brass instead of a brush that might get snarled in the innards you're pushing.  And yes, the tight fit of the O-rings is what makes extraction force necessary...presumably that's why the M12 X 1 female thread on the valve.  The front of the gun is NOT intended to be taken apart to service the valve.

You should be able to re-seal the valve without any further disassembly of the gun itself (it's best if you do not remove the grip frame from the receiver, as merely R&R-ing it can affect functioning of the loader tap).   There were two valve types - early ones use a typical flat disc seal and later ones a steel ball against a chamfered seal disc as I remember.  You may have to get creative to come up with a suitable piece of elastomer. 

Usually the pressure-release caps on these guns don't leak, but if yours is problematic one solution is to disable the auto-release function and install a solid seal.


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simonspain
(@simonspain)
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 24
2018-04-12 12:22:13  

Thanks for the help Oldair! I used a 4mm plastic rod as I was lucky to have a long length of it....and yes...after trying the cleaning rod...which is too short..the brush did get tightly into the nozzle. It seems ok and the plastic rod worked perfectly! This gun is an early type with two flatish O-ring seals at the rear. I could maybe try and rejuvenate them with brake fluid perhaps, but a friend who repairs FWB's here in Spain suggested new ones if possible. I was glad to see it seems a plug-in unit and I didn't have to remove the trigger group or anything. I Would like to swap the grips out if possible...is it just the two screws? I removed them but the grip seemed to be caught near the base so I left it alone. Gun is so original I would prefer to keep it that way and get some of those gorgeous anatomical grips for the later model I have. Maybe take some dims and try and make some.....they look so sculptural with the slim metalwork on the gun.....a beautiful juxtaposition! These pistols are sculpture to me....works of engineering art! 🙂


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simonspain
(@simonspain)
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 24
2018-04-12 12:32:30  

.....another question if I may.....there are more than two O-ring seals in this nozzle assembly no? Would it just be the two larger ones at the rear or could it be others. My CO2 escapes around the trigger the moment I fire the gun and discharges all the gas.


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Larry
(@leh22)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 2
2018-04-12 13:20:45  

Having not gotten any reply from Rudy Marent after numerous phone attempts over the last year, I drove out to his house a few months ago to check on him. His wife let me in to see Rudy, but he does not work on any Hammerli's anymore. He also sadly told me that when Hurricane Harvey came through last August, it flooded his garage and he THREW OUT all of what was left of the wet damaged Hammerli parts last Fall. I was in shock and disbelief, but he said what is done is done. So I'm afraid that chapter of the history of our long-standing Hammerli smith is now closed.

LarryH


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oldair
(@oldair)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 16
2018-04-12 14:51:32  

Now that the valve assembly is out of the gun, you have to take it apart to reach the exhaust seal and find or make a suitable item to replace it.  If you have the full owner's manual it should have a section view of the internals.  The two large O-rings on the outside of the valve body are only to seal it within the main tube.  I hadn't seen the manual page you show above, saying that complete valve assemblies were once available to swap out...how convenient that would have been!

The two screws are all that holds on the one-piece plastic grip.  Over time the plastic can become really 'stuck' in place and may need tapping downward to get it off the metal frame.   Long ago I hand carved a left-hand grip from a single piece of walnut; took a lot of patient work to get the inletting right before the external shaping could begin.


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marflow
(@marflow)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 634
2018-04-12 14:58:56  

so you see Mike, that's me has I manual and scanned the manual to send to Simon but he never read that page or many of the others but I looked at the pictures LOL

so Mike is Stupid but that ok with him LOL   glad to help---read the manual Mike, ok I will

Mike


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simonspain
(@simonspain)
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 24
2018-04-12 15:39:51  

.....oh dear what a shame......for Rudy and his family more than anyone! 🙁  A sad day for all Hammerli enthusiast 🙁 Thanks for letting us know LarryH. 


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simonspain
(@simonspain)
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 24
2018-04-12 18:27:15  

Read the manual please everyone! 😉 haha!! 


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simonspain
(@simonspain)
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 24
2018-04-12 18:35:21  

...Hi ..again...lol! Which is the exhaust seal? A kind gentleman from the UK called Lawrie suggested this....

'you will see that you need to replace two "O" rings round the valve body, there is a seal and a ball bearing inside the valve, they very rarely need replacing, just clean everything inside'.

...so I need to screw the tube from the larger main body and get inside? Can't I just photocopy the thing? hehe!! 


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simonspain
(@simonspain)
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 24
2018-04-12 18:44:29  

There seems to only be 4 seals....apart from that tiny front nozzle one.

page 21 001


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oldair
(@oldair)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 16
2018-04-12 20:17:04  

Yes, as noted before you have to take the valve apart to reach the exhaust seal.  Number 2 in your picture is the exhaust seal - note this illustration is the earlier style with flat disc seal.  You can see this piece gets whacked against its seat with every shot, so it can wear or deform.  If you're lucky you may be able to flip it over and the fresh surface will hold gas, otherwise as noted before you'll need to find or make a suitable seal.  Numbers 1, 3 & 4 are static seals and you might be able to re-use them. 

Laurie is referring to the later style I mentioned earlier, with a steel ball sealing against a chamfered sealing element.  Once you get it opened up you will see which type your gun has.  Either way, one approach would be to clean well, examine closely, and consider if it could be worth just re-assembling to learn if it will come back to life.  When you put the complete valve assembly back into the gun, a pointy end on your plastic rod can be helpful in guiding the long tube / nozzle smoothly into its passage.


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oldair
(@oldair)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 16
2018-04-12 20:25:11  

If things work, here should be my 'custom made' left hand grip:

mastercomp


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marflow
(@marflow)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 634
2018-04-12 23:46:42  

well that's great news Rudy is still with us, at 90 years old he will better then most of us

the parts loss is to bad but stuff happens, so it is up to the owners of these old guns to find the o-ring and keep them running and the how to work on them also for ourselves and the next owner

Mike


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simonspain
(@simonspain)
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 24
2018-04-13 06:47:04  

Woooooow......that is some serious beautiful furniture on your pistol Oldair!!!! Make me some right handed grips and I will gladly send you one of my children....and money of course....and wife if you like! Hahaha!!!! In fact I'll send the whole family over! 🙂 

Yes....I thought I might be able to check and clean first as I know how to disassemble the darn thing now! Haha!! Lawrie from the UK is sending me some seals 3,4....so I will see if he has any others! Great guys all of you....this has renewed my faith in human nature this journey back into vintage airguns ..it really has!! Thanks again for all the useful info....will keep all posted! 🙂 Un abrazo a todos! Simon


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