LOVE my Plinkster. ...
 

LOVE my Plinkster. Just got my Dragonfly.  

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JiminPGH
(@jiminpgh)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 297
2018-05-08 18:17:44  

I've been a big fan of the Snowpeak CO2 Plinkster.  I even got the Steve-in-NC debouncer and aftermarket trigger.  It's really one of my favorite shooters.  Perfect handling, light weight, compact, and after a very basic barrel crown, remarkably accurate.

So when I saw the MSP version on the Pyramyd table at Findlay, I knew I needed one.  Well, it arrived today.  I've only taken a few test shots, but so far I think I'm gonna like this one as much as the Plinkster.  Same great handling and ergonomics.  It pumps with about the same effort as a classic Sheridan or Benjamin, which is to say your effort rewards.  It does not pump like an 880 or a 760.

Interestingly, it will not hold a pump until it is cocked.  I always like to keep my pumpers stored with 1 or 2 pumps, just to keep the cobwebs out.  I thought about the tradeoff of pressure in the valve vs hammer spring stored in compression.  Conundrum.  I discovered that if I pull the bolt handle back about half way, before it cocks, I can put a pump or two into the valve and leave it un-cocked.

I'll post more as I learn more.  First step is the Steve-in-NC 2-stage trigger.  So far, I really like this gun.


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DanWesson
(@danwesson)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 34
2018-05-09 05:08:12  

I was checking out that Dragonfly display model at PA's table during  the Findlay show. I was impressed by the fit and finish and I really liked the rear sight blade. Tried to get Tyler to sell it to me, but was unsuccessful in that attempt. 

Looking forward to your updates on this multi-pump, Jim. 

Jerry


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MDriskill
(@mdriskill)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 131
2018-05-09 05:36:58  

Jim, sounds very interesting, will look forward to more info (and would love to see some pics).

I’ve handled a Plinkster and was very impressed! And although I’ve become a springer fan in my dotage, I cut my airgun teeth on the Benjy 347 that Santa left under the tree in ‘68, and have always had a soft spot for pump-ups. Sure, you have to work a little to shoot it, but how can you dislike a slim, light, accurate, self-contained, recoilless rifle?

I don’t really NEED a Dragonfly (cuz the 347 still works fine) but might just have to throw down for one...


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Steve in NC
(@steve-in-nc)
Dealer
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Posts: 331
2018-05-09 10:13:28  
Posted by: JiminPGH

...Interestingly, it will not hold a pump until it is cocked.  I always like to keep my pumpers stored with 1 or 2 pumps, just to keep the cobwebs out.  I thought about the tradeoff of pressure in the valve vs hammer spring stored in compression.  Conundrum.  I discovered that if I pull the bolt handle back about half way, before it cocks, I can put a pump or two into the valve and leave it un-cocked.

Sounds like SnowPeak has another winner!

It's impossible to resist speculating how this little pumper would respond to conversion to AC (air conserving) mode.  With the Dfly's adjustable-length piston to to keep pumping efficiency up, it would likely combine with a FreeFlightHammer debouncer to yield near full stock power with less than half the number of strokes required in dump-mode.


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ekmeister
(@ekmeister)
Member of Trade
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 452
2018-05-09 12:10:28  

Jim, I like the looks of that Dragonfly.  Also nice is it appears it offers scope mounting in the usual fashion on a dovetail rail compared to the way you have to mount a scope on a Benjamin rifle.

I don't think I missed this, so what caliber did you buy?  Maybe you're implying that yours is a .177 version based on the other two models you listed.  The .22 caliber version is the one that appeals to me.  Pellets that are .22 and larger require less fumbling around with your fingers when you want to load one, at least for me.  

That said, I have a Chinese springer in .177 caliber that I like, a .177 caliber Chi-clone of the RWS 52.  The model is the SM-1000, which I don't think is made or at least imported anymore.  I didn't choose it, it chose me.  That is, a friend gave it to me.  And, after some misc tuning work it really shoots very-nicely.  My other springer is an RWS 34 Panther in .22 caliber, and yes, the pellets are a little easier to load for me.

There is just something so classic and fun about an MSP rifle that after all the years of shooting springers the new Dragonfly is whispering my name.  I DO wish the stock had a little darker finish, but I like to tinker around with and massage my air guns so if I buy one I'll simply refinish the stock in a darker color (assuming the light finish shown in Online sites is an accurate depiction).

I'll be watching for more posts about your impression and the performance of your new rifle.

Safe and Happy Shooting!

Ed, the Airgun TuneMeister

https://www.airguntunemeister.com/


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James Perotti
(@jpsaxnc)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 75
2018-05-09 15:22:13  

If the pumping and the power are similar to a Sheridan or Benjamin, I think the gun would perform well, as a  .25 conversion.


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Steve in NC
(@steve-in-nc)
Dealer
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 331
2018-05-09 17:04:32  
Posted by: James Perotti

If the pumping and the power are similar to a Sheridan or Benjamin, I think the gun would perform well, as a  .25 conversion.'s

Well, just picking dimensions off the DFly's drawing suggests a stroke of over 9" combined with a pump ID of 3/4" for a stroke volume of over 4ci, which (as you know) is significantly (~1/3rd) bigger than the Benji's ~3ci. 

Put that together with the DFly's adjustable flat-top piston and, at least on paper (famous last words 😋), it looks to have a substantially heftier and more capable pump.

This little pumper could be a real sleeper.


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JiminPGH
(@jiminpgh)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 297
2018-05-09 18:39:50  

Scopability may be an issue. While the gun shares the same basic architecture as the Plinkster and Stormrider, pumping naturally puts your hand where the scope would go.  I've ordered a Williams peep for mine.

I did manage to get a few more test shots in tonight.  I added a couple drops of Secret Sauce from he-who-must-not-be-named to the pivot points, in the interest of proper break-in.  There was a noticeable reduction in pumping effort, and a perceived increase in "smoothness."  I think this little gun is gonna be a real gem.

I look forward to the weekend when I will have time to install Steve's trigger and fully wring it out.  The Plinkster was a deal of a lifetime at $109 shipped, and is still one of my favorites.  The Dragonfly at $180 shipped is shaping up to be a good deal as well.


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ekmeister
(@ekmeister)
Member of Trade
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Posts: 452
2018-05-09 21:54:11  

Jim, This suddenly came back to my mind. 

I don't get it.  I had a scope on both my Crosman 760 and Crosman 2200 (the latter is .22 caliber) some years back, and I never had a problem with hand placement when I was pumping them up.  Are you sure you can't fit one on there and still pump-up the rifle with reasonable ease?  Would a short scope of some sort work better?  I think there are still a few of them around--maybe not suitable for springer recoil, but probably good enough for an MSP. 

Safe and Happy Shooting!

Ed, the Airgun TuneMeister

https://www.airguntunemeister.com/


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Steve in NC
(@steve-in-nc)
Dealer
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2018-05-10 11:28:37  

Jim, looking at online pic's of the DFly, it seems not to have the same...

...brake/LDC as the Plinkster.   Is this the case and, if so, what's your impression of the impact on dB?  Unmuffled and un-debounced pumpers tend to be fairly loud and, if true of the DFly, would be another way (besides reducing pumping) that conversion to AC would improve the shooting experience.

Since muzzle blast is proportional to total volume expended with the shot, by cutting the unnecessary wasting of air characteristic of dumpers, AC can make pumpers, to use the term James P coined, "springer-quiet."

 


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JiminPGH
(@jiminpgh)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 297
2018-05-10 12:43:37  

True, it does not have the same brake, just a plastic sleeve with front sight.  At the full 8 pumps, it does have quite a bark.


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RockDoc65
(@rockdoc65)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 60
2018-05-10 14:57:17  
Posted by: Steve in NC

Jim, looking at online pic's of the DFly, it seems not to have the same...

...brake/LDC as the Plinkster.   Is this the case and, if so, what's your impression of the impact on dB?  Unmuffled and un-debounced pumpers tend to be fairly loud and, if true of the DFly, would be another way (besides reducing pumping) that conversion to AC would improve the shooting experience.

Since muzzle blast is proportional to total volume expended with the shot, by cutting the unnecessary wasting of air characteristic of dumpers, AC can make pumpers, to use the term James P coined, "springer-quiet."

 

Or convert to A.C. AND install a muzzle device AND upgrade the trigger AND I can (metaphorically) hear my wallet creaking open as I type this.

You guys are killing me.  I'm really starting to want one of these.


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JiminPGH
(@jiminpgh)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 297
2018-05-10 15:12:39  

One of the reasons for the different muzzle brake is clearance between the barrel and the end of the pump tube.  The Plinkster MB would not fit.  While you're listening to your wallet creaking open, start thinking about a longer barrel.  🙂


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Steve in NC
(@steve-in-nc)
Dealer
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 331
2018-05-11 11:30:35  
Posted by: Steve in NC
Posted by: James Perotti

If the pumping and the power are similar to a Sheridan or Benjamin, I think the gun would perform well, as a  .25 conversion.'s

Well, just picking dimensions off the DFly's drawing suggests a stroke of over 9" combined with a pump ID of 3/4" for a stroke volume of over 4ci, which (as you know) is significantly (~1/3rd) bigger than the Benji's ~3ci. 

Put that together with the DFly's adjustable flat-top piston and, at least on paper (famous last words 😋), it looks to have a substantially heftier and more capable pump.

This little pumper could be a real sleeper.

Some revealing numbers:  A review on another forum includes some actual shot strings of the .177.

Shooting CPHs (10.5gr), the reviewer reported 751fps =13.2fpe on 8 pumps, 690fps = 11.1fpe on 5 pumps.  Note that these numbers are significantly warmer than our old friend the 397's.

Accuracy seems good, too, with this interesting comment:  "The gun was accurate enough that I am now left wanting a better trigger and believe it deserves much better."  Why am I smiling? 


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Steve in NC
(@steve-in-nc)
Dealer
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2018-05-11 15:45:50  
Posted by: JiminPGH

One of the reasons for the different muzzle brake is clearance between the barrel and the end of the pump tube.  The Plinkster MB would not fit.  While you're listening to your wallet creaking open, start thinking about a longer barrel.  🙂

Okay.  Okay.  Enough already.  A man can only resist so much temptation.

I pried my own creaky wallet open (shoo!  shoo!  Damn moths!) and should have a .177 Dfly on my doorstep sometime next week.

Just to have a bet down, when converted to AC, I'm predicting we'll see 12fpe on 3 pumps.

Maybe even fewer.


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RockDoc65
(@rockdoc65)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 60
2018-05-11 16:19:32  

I'm just going to start budgeting for this project now and try to get ahead of this.

Lets see, it's 180 for the gun and I'm going to need lots more pellets, a trigger upgrade, an air conserving mod, should probably start checking the TKO web page from time to time to see what they make for it...  Oh, and a scope and mounts, a case...

Sigh, it could be worse.  I could have a thing for Corvettes or blondes.  I'll probably get off comparatively cheap with another airgun.


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JiminPGH
(@jiminpgh)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 297
2018-05-11 20:15:04  

Tonight I put in a Steve-in-NC 2 stage trigger and OMG!  This gun is SWEET!

Some interesting knowledge gained.  Remember the theory of barrel bending with MSPs?  The idea was that more pumps would actually raise the front sight because pressure in the pump tube would "bend" the gun.  Well, the Dragonfly has a de-coupled barrel.  So I got out my feeler gauges.  At zero pumps, the gap between the barrel and the pump head was .032.  At eight pumps, the gap was .011.

So, does this prove or disprove the old Sheridan myth that a really good shooter can range by number of pumps? 


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Steve in NC
(@steve-in-nc)
Dealer
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2018-05-11 21:34:44  
Posted by: JiminPGH

So, does this prove or disprove the old Sheridan myth that a really good shooter can range by number of pumps? 

Are you referring to the myth of the deaf squirrel? 

I.e.: The theory that the "really good shooter" can magically add whatever pumping is needed to adjust for range without having associated noise and motion scaring off his quarry?

I never doubted it for a minute -- just like I never doubted that the associated change in POI (roughly a full inch per pump at 25 yards) might be too coarse for accuracy.  😋 


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Alejandro O. Martinez
(@aom22)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 39
2018-05-12 04:40:53  
Posted by: Steve in NC

and should have a .177 Dfly on my doorstep sometime next week.

Just to have a bet down, when converted to AC, I'

 

So, you are gonna develop an ACP version of the Dfly?

I’ll be waiting with my credit card at-the-ready to see what your results are.  LOL

W. Edwards Deming ... Quality: It is not enough to do-your-best; you must know what-to-do, and ... then ... do-your-best.
Ever-Onward ... Through the Fog ---- Fort Stockton TX 79735


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JiminPGH
(@jiminpgh)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 297
2018-05-12 07:19:18  

12 ftlb from 3 pumps?  Please put my name at the top of the waiting list!


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JiminPGH
(@jiminpgh)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 297
2018-05-15 16:49:55  

Here are some real numbers from "My-Little-Combro."  7.9gr Benjamin hollow-points, AKA CPHP.

3 pumps: 644, 633, 643, 644, 643

4 pumps: 696, 701, 700, 699, 701

5 pumps: 738, 740, 735, 747, 738

6 pumps: 772, 770, 769, 768, 765

7 pumps: 789, 793, 789, 790, 789

8 pumps (mfg max): 810, 801, 802, 811, 812

So, what did I learn?  First of all, if you ever attempt such a test, start off at eight pumps and work your way down.  I didn't do that, and I didn't enjoy the last 5 shot string!  Second, I learned that this gun gets really loud above 6 pumps.  Third, I learned that, while not really testing for accuracy, I got the best results RE shot placement in the range of 4-6 pumps.

I'm not really a chrony or numbers guy, but I hope my simple experiment might be helpful.  Overall, this is a great little gun.


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Steve in NC
(@steve-in-nc)
Dealer
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2018-05-15 18:16:13  
Posted by: JiminPGH

Here are some real numbers from "My-Little-Combro."  7.9gr Benjamin hollow-points, AKA CPHP.

3 pumps: 644, 633, 643, 644, 643

4 pumps: 696, 701, 700, 699, 701

5 pumps: 738, 740, 735, 747, 738

6 pumps: 772, 770, 769, 768, 765

7 pumps: 789, 793, 789, 790, 789

8 pumps (mfg max): 810, 801, 802, 811, 812

 Thanks, Jim, for the numbers!  Nicely done.

Interesting how energy/pump efficiency falls from 2.4 to 0.4 fpe/stroke as the stroke count goes from 3 to 8.  Talk about your classic point of diminishing returns!  LOL!

temp


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JiminPGH
(@jiminpgh)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 297
2018-05-15 20:17:51  

Seems like this gun is "happiest" at 5-6 pumps.  A nice balance of effort and reward.  Interestingly enough, that's right about the same MV I prefer in my springers, which are totally different animals.  But maybe there's just a happy place for .177 pellets, regardless of their motivating force?

I look forward to you getting one of these little pumpers, and seeing what you can come up with.  Your after-market improvements to the Plinkster are remarkable.  I can't wait to see what you will do with a Dragonfly on your table.


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Steve in NC
(@steve-in-nc)
Dealer
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Posts: 331
2018-05-16 15:35:25  

My Dfly arrived today, and out-of-the-box chrony results seem prettymuch in line with what the crowd are getting, so no surprises there.

What is surprising, however, is the pump linkage design.  For example, my guesstimate of stroke length was way off -- it's really only about 7" instead of 9", and the (main) reason is that the Dfly designer(s) literally completely wasted a full 2" of pump tube length (and consequently ~0.9 cubic inches of stroke volume)!  That's how much empty tube is left standing between the endcap and piston fore-end when the linkage is fully open.

Weird and seemingly inexpicably wasteful of stroke volume.  And that's just for starters when it comes to many peculiar details of this pump.  More to follow.

But first some chrony numbers:   Shooting boxed CPLs (7.9gr)...

temp


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