Accurate CO2 guns
 

Accurate CO2 guns  

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Alan12013
(@alan12013)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 52
2018-03-08 21:07:27  

First off, I love airguns, I don't mind a diverse set of power supplies...  What are some of the more accurate co2 pistols and guns you guys have shot?  I like the looks of the Mrod air target pistol as well as their plinkster...  I had a QB78 that I remember being able to hit anything I aimed at, even pretty far distances but never paper grouped it back then.  Right now I'm looking at the hammerli 850, a variant of a qb78 and the mrod air pistol.  I'd prefer something I can bulk fill and I don't mind carrying around a tank.  A multi shot situation would be great but not required.  It will be used as a weekend plinking gun to take camping (possibly squirrel hunting but doubtful) and hold family competitions with. 


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marflow
(@marflow)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 606
2018-03-08 22:38:45  

you can't go wrong with a Hammerli 850 and with the 2-12gr cartridge adapter you have a handy option to the 88-90 gram carts 

I even made up some 1-12gr cart adapters for that short shooting session

as for pistols Tau Brno 7's are good from what I hear , the Aeron Brno Chameleon or the Aeron Brno b96 and I own both of the Aeron's

custom BNM based 2240 can be a lot of fun for multi shot or just build a custom 2240 ands sky's the limit on that pursuit, I know all about that rabbit hole

just some ideas

 

many test on You Tube

Mike


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robnewyork
(@robnewyork)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 31
2018-03-08 23:57:19  

as far as the rifle accuracy.. Out of the box the Qb is up there.. I have a plinkster , accuracy IMO is just Okay out the box.. The umarex fusion is apparently great, MOUSEFART quiet and very accurate.. But loading the co2s seems complex..The 850 is wildly overpriced in todays market at 300 , There are a few  regged pcps for less than that.. On bulk co2 , the maximus is quite the gun,. With the 26 inch barrel the velocities are quite respectable ( low 700s ) I own the cp1 from mrodair also, incredible quality for 79 bux and comes with a repeater breech which is unreal.. the gun is better than the 2240 in every regard . Any used match co2 gun you can find will beat all the above, but theyre not common in co2 and even less commonly take 12 gram carts.. co2 has no limitations in accuracy , just in power.. another option is the crosman custom shop with LW barrel , but back to single shot.

 


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Doug Wall
(@doug-wall)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 108
2018-03-09 07:41:15  

You might want to consider the QB79. With 9 oz paintball CO2 tanks, you get tons of shots, and you can take a spare CO2 tank along. You can also buy an 1100 psi 13 cu. in. tank, and turn it into a regulated PCP. Same great accuracy that you noted in the QB78.


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Bob in WV
(@bob-in-wv)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 121
2018-03-09 08:35:04  

A Crosman 160 or 180 can be a very nice and accurate rifle.  Both are long ago discontinued but are still sold all the time.  The later versions had better triggers.  Also a new 226o is a pretty nice rifle and can be quite accurate.

 

Bob in WV


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Johnsairmadness
(@johnsairmadness)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 14
2018-03-09 08:35:35  

Have both the plinkster and matching pistol. The plinkter is really accurate. My son could hit cans at 75 yds.


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fivestar45
(@fivestar45)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 26
2018-03-09 08:56:40  

A thought to the Xsisco XS60C . It uses a good deal of QB78 parts, comes ready for both bulk fill and/or 2 12g's, can be had in .22cal, has a wood stock.


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gy954
(@gy954)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 7
2018-03-09 10:19:07  

I found the Hammerli 850 very accurate and powerful for a CO2 powered rifle. My only complaint is that it ate the cartridge-seal O-rings. As long as you are willing to replace them about every-other use, you will love the 850. 

And the 850 is a popular candidate for HPA conversion.


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Cruisers
(@cruisers)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 49
2018-03-09 12:27:21  

These two guns are to this day the most accurate iron sight airguns I've ever shot. And to boot, they are bulk fill and have huge shot count. Crosman says in the owners manual that you can get 70 good shots on one fill. I kinda doubted that so gave it a try. Crosman was right! I see the post did not have my title. I'm talking about the 113 and 114.


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Arkmaker
(@arkmaker)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 34
2018-03-09 13:01:53  

I have an Umerex Fusion and it is very accurate. You can buy a bulk fill attachment for it and do away with the carts. Mine shoots at about 700 fps with JSB 7.33's.

My most accurate Co2 is a little carbine that I put togeter on the Crosman Custom Shop. .177 LW barrel and when I am having a good day (no shaking) I can put 5-shot groups in a ragged hole at 20 yards. Absolutely the most accurate short range shooter I ever had.

Also, the Challenger is a good one for bulk fill and has a very respectable accuracy in the short range class.


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fpgt72
(@fpgt72)
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 3
2018-03-09 13:17:58  

I will put in another vote for fusion....I have had mine several years and really just love it.  I have shot flies off of the target at 25 yards....really love that little rifle.


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ribbonstone
(@ribbonstone)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 228
2018-03-09 22:10:36  

I had bad luck with the Fusion. Would shoot well, then shoot suddenly shoot like crap. I never did find out why....it sits in the corner, scope removed, until I feel like pharting with it again (which may be never).

Yes, I did do everything I coiuld think of to cure it...I worked on it off and on for better than 3 or 4 years (and with all the posts I've made, you'll likely get the idea that this dog don't give up chewing pn a bone easily).

At some point, I realized that I was beadting my head against a wall, and just pulled it out of service as one I couldn't count on ( might do great 3 or 4 tests out of 5, but when it decided to get stupid...it was really stupid).

to keep this in persepctive....have 6 co2 riles I'm pleased with....have only given up on 3 functional rifles in the last decade....the Fusion is one of those 3.


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JiminPGH
(@jiminpgh)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 277
2018-03-10 11:48:46  

Tau 200.  Runs on a single 12g CO2, with bulk option.  SUBLIME trigger, single hole accuracy.  Getting harder to find, but worth the pursuit.  On a budget, the Mrodair Plinkster is a hell of a value, and for a few dollars more, you can get the aftermarket 2 stage sear and de-bounce device, making it an efficient, fun to shoot gun.  I would recommend the basic round-head brass screw crown dressing.


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ribbonstone
(@ribbonstone)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 228
2018-03-11 12:25:49  

Really were not many "match" rifles (or Junior match) made to run on 12gr. Way-way back when, Hammerli made a 12gr. rifle version, which was well thought of, but in modern times, not so much.

Were a good number of top-end match BULK fill rifles, and the Daisy 888 type hung in there as a club rifle for longer than I'd have thought, but very few 12gr. rifles. Crosman played with a Challenger 2000 12gr. rifle, but it never really got too popular (and honestly, had a lot of issuesshooting well enough).

Tau and the Alfa Proj are the last two I can remember....might be more that never really made a splash in the US.

Of the two, the Tau has to be easier to repair/reseal as the Alfa is really-really a tiny delicate rifle, and a royal pain in the butt to work on.

Unless you like being on your own for repairs....go with ther Tau rather than the Alfa.

 

 

 

 

Accurate sporters are a different matter. Are some 12gr. co2 rifles, geared more to moderate power, that can be very accurate. Won't have the match trigger, the long shot count, etc. but can shoot as well as you'd normally be able to hold.


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TerryM
(@terrym)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 1
2018-03-11 19:02:18  
Posted by: Cruisers

These two guns are to this day the most accurate iron sight airguns I've ever shot. And to boot, they are bulk fill and have huge shot count. Crosman says in the owners manual that you can get 70 good shots on one fill. I kinda doubted that so gave it a try. Crosman was right! I see the post did not have my title. I'm talking about the 113 and 114.

With the power dialed back, they can get way more than that.  150+


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ribbonstone
(@ribbonstone)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 228
2018-03-11 22:00:53  

OK...a kind of long post about bulk fill co2.

Not even going to get into the details of how bulk filling co2 is different from bulk filling co2 comapred to air. Just realize that co2 will have the same pressure at the same temperature, even if the recieving tank as 2 ounces of co2 and the fill tnak has 20 POUNDS of co2....while air flows from recieving tank from fill tank by pressure difference.

Having been inside and resealed a lot of PCP's, realized that I'm using the same o-rings as co2...and the valve materail seems to be the same.

So I've used nearly every PCP in the house with bulk fill co2 at one time or another. The o-ring materail is the same...the valve seal materail is the same...why not?

 

Well...from a maker's point of view, most PCP rifles would absolutely suck at co2.  Not only is co2 lower pressure, it's kind of "thicker" and less able to flow well though the small openings in a PCP's valve.  Maybe some PCP's use co2 allergic O-rings/seals....I really-really doubt that.

 

I certainly wouldn't use it in a regulated PCP.  Also would not freak out some self-adjusting electronic (Daystate) type system.  

 

But I have no problems using it in simple non-regulated PCP;s where I know the O-rings and valve seal materials.

AGREED...most of the PCP's were way-way out of tune for CO2 use (rifles tuned for 3000psi air use smack the beJesus out of the valve when used with 1000psi CO2) but it did the valves no damage I can detect.

So if you do dedicate a PCP to CO2 bulk fill, will have to retune it for best performance/gas use. There is a limit to smacking the valve harder that just results in excess co2 use, maybe a bit of co2 "snow", but basically pasrt a certain point the co2 is getting to the party too late to add anything to the pellet's speed, it just makes for noise (and maybe some snow flakes in July).

Basically, to maintain the same ratio of tube/tank volume to weight of co2 as a paintball tank, can fill a tube by 1 ounce of co2 per 43cc's of volume. So a 133-135c Disco sized tube can hold a max safe fill of about 3.1 ounces of co2 ( that's like 7 12gr. cylinders) and an M-rod can hold about 5 ounces (thats like 11-12 12gr. cylinders).

Now my personal feelings are that while locally soursed co2 tanks/fills are cheaper, if I'm going to live with a tank, fill manifold, hoses, connectors, getting the systemto deliver close to full fills....I'd rahter just deal with air.

Not that I don't like co2...I do...I just feed them 12gr.


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Cvan
 Cvan
(@cvan)
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 28
2018-03-13 22:49:14  

You asked about accurate and I'm going to 2nd the vote on the Tau-200. I've had several and they are an absolute charm to shoot. Very frugal on c02 and the trigger is light and smooth. The only down side I can think of is they are kind of ugly. Get over that and they are an all around excellent rifle. 


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Alan12013
(@alan12013)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 52
2018-03-16 23:45:19  

Thank you guys.  Saved me hours of research online!  Now I can use that time to check classifieds and do more specific research.  That Tau has become my new unicorn of CO2. and I actually like the looks of it, could make some nice grips eventually..  I also like the looks of that "daisy" 888, another discontinued one that I'd have to keep an eye out for.  However the versatility mentioned with a qb79 seems appealing, and my 78 was basically my first airgun that I researched and bought.  I agree that the 850 seems high priced but it is a repeater that's probably better made then the 1077.  I think I'm leaning towards the qb guns due to familiarity, versatility and scalability.  Then if the stars align I'll pull the trigger on a tau.  The fusion does look like a good deal though.


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classicalgas
(@classicalgas)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 70
2018-03-17 23:42:42  

How accurate does it need to be, and how much work are you willing to put into it? A QB with all the tweaks will shoot groups as good as anything up to ten times it's price.

 

Hand lap a good factory barrel, or buy a LW. Straighten the receiver and bolt, coat the bolt with Gunkote (moly loaded resin) and hand fit it to the lapped receiver . Cut off the loading shelf and reduced stub, turn it o a tight fit in the lapped receiver, then lap them to fit each other (no o-ring needed)Lap  the gas tube. Flat side the striker,shorten it, and bore it out, to a weight about 70% of stock, then GunKote it too (and the spring plug while you're at it) Stone and moly the trigger faces, fit a spring loaded plunger in the overtravel screw's location, and you can get under a half pound with barely perceptible second stage creep (and the trigger will reset on  balked shot, and pass the bump test.)

Bed the gas tube into the wood from the trigger box to just ahead of the takedown bolt, replace all the screws you can with grade 5 or better Allen bolts.  Gut the valve, whittle down the front of the valve body to a minimum, so the poppet head can see the fill cap, and put a short, small diameter return spring on a pedestal threaded into the front of the valve. Cut back the exhaust valve seat square to the stem bore, put a nylon head on the poppet, with  the forward end about .1" smaller  diameter than  the bore of the valve body, and the seat end just barely larger than the seat.Make sure the new barrel port is centered in the gas tube hole, fit a poly tube seal to pockets in the barrel and valve. Keep you barrel port small enough that the pellet doesn't hang up, with no burr, make sure the tightest spot in the barrel is at the muzzle.

Fit a metal barrel band if the gun didn't come with one, bed that into the stock too.

Don't replace or add much preload to the striker spring, don't streamline the poppet head, don't use a stock striker with an open front valve...do any of those things and you'll get a gas hog that self chills, and your accuracy will go away.

Set it up right, and you can reliably plink 12 g shotgun shells at 90 yards.


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Alan12013
(@alan12013)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 52
2018-03-18 00:25:37  

Well, that's pretty much exactly what I'd like to work on.  Absolutely great information.  I kinda suspected that the QBs were capable of having top to bottom customizing done.  Even if some of it doesn't get done it gives me a lot of projects.  Buy the gun and do a little here and there and when I want to step it up again I'll always have the next thing I can do.  I'm writing down everything you mentioned.  Ever since you (or someone on here) mentioned the handlapping of barrels (hadn't heard of it before) I've been reading up on it, bought some paste, and plan on doing it eventually, it seems much better then the method where you fire the pellets.  I just ordered some devcon 10110 (for another project but will have plenty remaining) so the bedding can be one of the first items on the list along with the new barrel band.  I'll need to source a metal replacement band.  I wish I had the tools and lathe needed to do my own work, I'm particularly upset I can't do my own precision crown jobs.    


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Arkmaker
(@arkmaker)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 34
2018-03-19 06:08:07  

Well, I can add the Avanti 887 to the list. Just got this used off the Yellow classifieds. The only thing that could be better is the trigger, but still it is OK for a single stage set up. I have only shot 50 pellets downrange so far and had a couple of hole in hole 5-shot groups (and it was windy!) Here is the review.

The Avanti 887 rifle came today (Saturday the 17th). I bought this used off the Yellow. It was stated "Like New" and I am very happy to say, IT IS!

I had other things to do, but the phrase "why do today what you can put off till tomorrow" never could be better used than when you are looking at a new to you rifle 🙂 I got everything together and proceeded to try this puppy out. Well, I can't see the dots on the target with the diopter sights, so it was back into the house to add a scope. On went the Tasco 2.5-10X and back out to the bench. Ahhh, that's better!

I already had my target stand set up at 10 meters, so once I got my rest and bag set up I proceeded to sight in the scope. I had it set in 5 shots with just vertical adjustment needed..... Now about the rifle itself....

- A Very nice laminated stock and dark black bluing. Has a nice forearm rail as well for hooking up various stands etc..

- Overall, one of the heaviest air rifle I have, but that is fine for me as I intend this to be a bench rest shooter only.

- Cocking is straight easy pull backwards with no lifting.

- Pellet loading is kind of tight, but I found that if I use both forefingers to hold the pellet, I could load without to much hassle. The more I did it, the better I got, but still had to look and make sure that I did not flip the pellet in backwards. I did do that a few times and my trusty pocket knife gently flipped it proper. So on a scale of 1-10, I give pellet loading a 6.

- The trigger has a very long pull. I have not adjusted it at all yet. The only adjustment I see is the travel length. So this is actually a single stage trigger. It does break nice and clean. Better than my Fusion by far, but not even close to the 1701P trigger I have on my 2400KT.

- Bolt closes easy and stays closed through the firing cycle.

- Quiet as you can expect from a 500 fps Co2 with an almost 21" barrel. Not Fusion quiet, but very close to it indeed.

- The barrel is a LW topped off by a nice looking muzzle break. And boy howdy, does this barrel shoot them where you point them!!

- Bulk Fill and what has been reported as a ton of shots before refill (like 300). Also, spare tanks are available for about 90 bucks. I have not refilled yet, so I can't comment on it, but it looks pretty straight forward using a scale.

- I had the forearm resting on my MTM rest and the shoulder resting on a bag. To raise or lower my POI I just slid the bag forward to raise or backward to lower. This stock sits perfect on the two. In fact, I use this set up most of the time and this is the most secure rifle I have had in place. It was very windy today with strong gusts and I had no problems or worries that the rifle would fall off the rest. This has happened to me before, so I am very aware of this now. All of my other rifle are taken off the rest if I walk away unless it is a dead calm day. Today, I did not seem to worry about that. It was that rock solid.

So here are the stats;

about 75F and very windy

10M Rested front and back

10X power on the scope

All 5-shot groups

3 different pellet types (15 shots for each and a 5 shot group I used for sighting in the scope. 50 shots total) Those dots are approximatly the size of an aspirin.

Results: HAPPY DANCE


Alan12013 and Citizen K thanked
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Anonymous
(@forumairgunwarriors)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 64
2018-03-21 11:32:15  

My vote...My Stock QB 78!


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Gratewhitehuntr
(@gratewhitehuntr)
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 242
2018-03-21 19:24:16  

Good thread, multi shot mandatory. Tau-200 not so ugly.

 

Does anyone know the availability status of scope mounts for the older Crosman bulk fill guns? 

Someone was nice enough to hand me one several years ago but the sights seemed wide as the barn. 

 

.

.

There you have it, the world according to John.


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Alan12013
(@alan12013)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 52
2018-03-25 17:26:34  

Hey, on that 888 or 887 how would I bulk fill it?  One is for sale here locally.  I will probably end up with another qb for myself but my daughter likes the stock on that 888.  I'm wondering if I can just use the same tank and cable that I use on my bulk fed 2240.  It's a male quick connect adapter I think.  I wrote the guy but he's never filled it himself, he had it done at a paintball store.  Not even sure how that would work with a bulk co2 cylinder on the gun...  My 2240 has the normal tank but then an adapter where the piercing cap would screw on then I attach the quick connect to the plug and it stays connected to the paintball tank through that hose the entire time I shoot, so it's not like I attach a tank and "fill" the tube to pressure then disconnect.  I do fill my 20 oz tank from my ginormous co2 tank which I just weigh out proper co2 in ounces.  Very confused on this 888 situation.


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Domer_Pyle
(@domer_pyle)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 58
2018-03-25 18:41:35  

 

This Daisy 426 has far surpassed my expectations, including accuracy. This is a group I shot as rested as I could be on the arm of a living room chair about 4 yards away in less than conducive light conditions for open sights, one full "magazine" and then one group shot standing as fast as I could, also a full "magazine" from the same distance. And it will hold CO2 for a month with enough to shoot a handful of magazines, twice now I've shot 4-5 mags and let it sit and picked it up again a month later and shot a few more fairly powerful mags before it dropped off. They just went up on Amazon, I got mine for $20 with Prime

0324181144


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Arkmaker
(@arkmaker)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 34
2018-03-26 18:00:05  

I have not re-filled the tank yet, but from the looks of it, I think I will be able to hook straight up to my 25 lb tank and fill the same way as I do my 20 oz tanks. I'll post up my results once I know for sure. Right now I still have plenty in the tank from how I recieved it......but now you have me curious.

I did read on some post, somewhere, that the people at PA helped them out with the proper fittings to reload from smaller tanks. Hey, we know it can be done as I figure others have done it. I guess we just have to figure out the mystery 😉


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ribbonstone
(@ribbonstone)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 228
2018-03-27 17:21:25  

Just a reminder...don't be too quick to swap barrels. China can make a QB good barrel now and again (from my experince, a higher sucess rate than standard Crosman barrels). Good barrel is a good barrel no matter who made it, so test the carp out of the issue barrel first.

HAve had a few bad ones on the early QB's (and some good ones), but some are still being used today and I've no urge to change them (they'll shoot right along side the "big-boys").

Yes...I have rebarreled a couple. One with an LW .25 blank and one with a 5mm HW blank (back when those were availible)...but if I were happy with .177 or .22, considering the price, could have tried out three or four QB barrels (maybe 5 in today's pricing) for the ame $$ and likely have found a "good one" in .177 or .22 well before my 4th try.

What I do not care for are 88gr. tanks (WAY too expensive per ounce of co2).

Bulk fill is way cheaper, but if I'm going to deal with tanks, hoses, fill mainfolds, etc, I'd rather go with air.

OK...co2 expence per ounce.

12gr. are about $.40-44 cents per ounce when bought in bulk (either 100 count or 144 count). Occasionly find them for as little as $.34...but we'll use $.44 per 12gr.

Are 28grams per ounce, so it would rtake about 2.3 12gr. to make an ounce of co2...so $1.02 per ounce of co2.

88/90gram cartridges are running at best about $5.50 each, and are not as common as they once were. That works out to $1.72 per ounce of co2.

Paintball tank fill costs is variable. Best local cost is like $4.00-$5.00 to fill a 20 ounce piantball tank. Works out to about $0.32 an ounce PLUS what every you choose to spread out the cost of the paintball tank's life span and the fill gear needed to transfer gas to a bulk fill. (Yeah...with a tanker, you just screw the than on and avoid the fill gear completely)

BIG bulk fill, can find places (industrial gas supply if one is near to you...try beverage supply..the guys who supply co2 tanks to soda fountains) that can fill a 20 pound tank for about $18-22. Call that $20, which works out to about $.06-$.07 per ounce. BUT there is a lot more fill gear, and the life time/retesting of the big 20 ound fill tank to spread out over time as part of the expense.

There may be a reason for bulk fill (or tanker) tending to shoot a bit better. But tankers/large bulk fill tubes tend to be a bit more uniform. It's a tiny-tiny bit (like a few 100ths of an inch in average group size.)

Same basic actions.valves, barrels in the case of QB's (and others converted to bulk or tanker)...but long term group averages have been a bit better with the largest amount of co2 attached to the rifle (either by tank or by teather line).

Am thinking that when shooting at a controled rate of fire, the bigaxx volume of co2 stays more stable than a small volume of co2,,,,and the velocity varation figures kind of bear that out.

So as much as I do like the ultimate convenience of dumping some 12gr. in one pocket, a tin of pelllets in the opposing pocket, grabbing the rifle, and heading out the door....it may not be the absolute best for bench-rest-target playing.


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Alan12013
(@alan12013)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 52
2018-03-29 18:24:12  

I have several large co2 tanks for a full size soda machine (I own a café)...  So I just have 1-2 dedicated to my airgun (time of year)and another for the soda lol.  It's really easy to shoot my 2240 with the bulk.  I've got filling the 20oz and 9oz tanks down pat from my big ones and it's fun for me too (I don't have a syphon tube so I have a ghetto mount that I use to hold the giant one upside down) and boy oh boy does it help when the co2 tank receiving the co2 has been in the freezer!  My problem with other co2 guns is that I don't know the lingo...  My 2240 has a fitting that replaced the piercing cap and I just attach the co2 tank using a quick connect and leave it on as I shoot.  Other guns, like the Avanti 888 seem to have some sort of connecter on the tube that looks like a male fitting for my quick connect but something in my mind tell me that I'd have to actually fill the guns reservoir like a PCP some how and then unconnect the co2...  If I can find the fitting I need for a QB78 then I'd happily jump on it.  I just don't want the one where I have to screw the co2 tank to the gun, I like my long cord. 

I do trust that buying a handful of qb barrels would result in an outstanding barrel!  I'd expect that the odds of getting lucky with a really accurate qb barrel are significantly higher then getting an accurate np2 barrel...


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DonC
 DonC
(@donc)
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 95
2018-04-03 11:37:53  

Crosman 111 Bulk Fill pistol made after WWII. A perfect pistol in ALL respects. Tom Gaylord wrote about it's many merits in the old AirGun Letter periodical he used to publish.

It is as accurate as my Morini 10 meter pistol. Trigger is very nice and can be tuned.


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