A first look into t...
 

A first look into the possibilities of the DIANA Stormrider  

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Hector J Medina G
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pistolero
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2018-02-20 14:47:34  

EXCELLENT article Hector! 

I've wanted one of those Chinese-made PCPs ever since getting a Co2 version and being very impressed with it (mine is a .22 caliber MRodAir Plinkster). However, my concerns about shot-count have kept me from 'pulling the trigger' on a PCP version. Your excellent review will not only push me over the edge, but make it a Diana based on your regulator compatibilty information. I'll probably go for .22 caliber. 

The Co2 and PCP guns share a lot of commonality, almost eerily so. Of course that makes good sense from any angle.

I want to applaud you for going into technical details beyond my attention-span abilities to do so, while also making those details CRYSTAL CLEAR. Great work, Amigo.

I posted a little review of my .22 Plinkster several months ago on the old yellow forum, which I was still able to locate (minus photos) with the search function. Hopefully the treasure-trove of yellow forum information/posts will remain available for some time.

I was very impressed with the little Co2 carbine, and agree with you that these Chinese airguns have vast potentials. Here's a link to my little review that touches more on SIMPLE (hammer-spring) tuning and initial accuracy testing of the .22 Co2 Plinkster -

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/yellow/22-plinkster-review-comparison-t240016.html

Thanks largely to the information you so kindly shared in your review, I look forward to working with a new .22 Stormrider... as soon as I can sneak one into the budget.  😉 

Happy Shooting,

Ron

Plinkster

 

 

"No brag; just fact."- Will Sonnett


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EricinMaine
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2018-02-20 18:40:02  

I'm glad to see this.I think the gun is a real winner with some help.You mentioned that the regulator is adjustable.My .22 cal.varies from 733 f/s to 852 f/s over 28 shots of JSB 18.13 gn.Exact Jumbo Heavies (200bar.fill).What would you suggest I adjust the regulator to ,for my .22 Stormrier?Also,how can I get one of these regulators?

EricinMaine-

 

 


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Alan12013
(@alan12013)
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Posts: 52
2018-02-20 19:30:46  

Ron, that is an amazing looking CO2 rifle.  Not to hijack the thread from the PCP stormrider though.  That looks like it would be a good intro into PCP for someone wanting quality and price point.  The power looks absolutely perfect for my applications, probably even too powerful.  That CO2 plinkster just might be my next gun!  I used to have a QB78 back before I got into accuracy testing (about 2002) so I can't speak to it's groupings but I was happy with that gun.  Besides that my only other CO2 is a 23' barreled bulk 2240 that I am very impressed with as far as groupings.  I've been looking a ton for other CO2 that I can use my bulk fill setup, had my eye on the 850 but now I think my mind is changed.  Awesome looking guns.


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TX-Shooter
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2018-02-20 20:03:59  

Great job Héctor! ..It's a big improvement

Un abrazo!

Alex 


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pistolero
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2018-02-20 21:40:34  

Thanks Alan. I agree that these little carbines are also great-looking. 

I wasn't trying to hijack Hector's post and hope he doesn't see it that way; just wanted to tie the PCP and Co2 siblings together. Both are EXTREME bargains.

If you're referencing Co2 bulk BOTTLE arrangements like those adapted to cartridge guns with 'tank blocks', I see no reason that wouldn't work fine with the Plinkster; since any gun that uses 12 gram cartridges shares the same chamber-tube inside diameter. Mind you, since the Plinkster chamber tube is long enough for 3 cartridges, a little 3.5 ounce Co2 bottle might give a less front-heavy look than a longer Co2 bottle, that would reach near the muzzle. Should you do it, I'd love to see it and hear about it.

This bottle discussion got me thinking that regulated HPA bottle conversions could also be done to the Stormrider. Which also put me to pondering how easily a regulated HPA bottle Stormrider might be accomplished at the manufacturer level, for possibly the least expensive regulated-bottle PCP going... at least that isn't mostly PLASTIC! Heck, if someone who has a working relationship with airgun companies was following this thread, maybe he could plant a seed.  😉 

My QB and Crosman regulated-bottle-conversion guns are not only as consistent in velocity as high-dollar regulated PCPs, but have notched several competition performances beyond most folks wildest dreams. I'd buy a regulated-HPA-bottle Stormrider in a heartbeat!

T A QB LS

187 PFT groups

  

"No brag; just fact."- Will Sonnett


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Kerndtc
(@kerndtc)
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Posts: 96
2018-02-20 22:15:01  

Very good tune! I didn't know they had a 200 bar fill pressure, that's very nice. 

 

How's the accuracy? Are we going to get a blog update on what to expect as far as groups out of this rifle combined with a very capable shooter?

Just because a gun is less expensive or made in An Origin that isn't commonly known for high-quality doesn't mean that it can't be an accurate gun. I look at it in the same way that Ron does. I have an AR2079 that was converted into a pistol and was able to do well at Nationals with it. There is a certain amount of pride that you can get when achieving something with a gun that costs a fraction of what your competitors are using. 

20171109 071304 1008x756

 

Hope you're doing well Hector, might be seeing you at world's.

 

Cameron

 


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Steve in NC
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2018-02-20 22:26:59  

An excellent treatment of a nice PCP, Hector!  I have but one small quibble.

You say: "The trigger will be a single stage trigger, there is no way around that, though we are working with DIANA on a new design that will be a true double stage trigger."

Actually, as it turns out, there is already a way around that!

PlinksterSSfunction

What it does...

Provides a true 2-stage sporter or match-grade trigger with adjustable creep and selectable pull weights... 

1. 10oz 1st stage / 2lb 2nd stage. 
2. 7oz 1st stage / 1.5lb 2nd stage. 
3. 5oz 1st stage / 1lb 2nd stage. 

Or to say it another way:  http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/message/1516477471/Stormrider-Varmint-Plinkster+trigger

What's in the kit, along with the dual leverage ratio, solid tempered high-carbon steel SuperSear...

[linked image]

[linked image]

How it adjusts...

Jim G. Sun 1/21, 9:32 AM 

I put the spring on the center bump, then tested. I liked the pull weight, but stage 2 was a little gritty. I turned the setscrew in so it was flush, and voila. About 15 minutes, start to finish. 

If your friends at Diana are serious about a cost-effective implementation of a safe, drop-in, high-performance, true 2-stage trigger for this airgun that makes full use of its, as you so astutely point out, wonderful potential, please have them drop me an email:  pneuguy@hotmail.com
 
Cheers,
Steve

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EricinMaine
(@ericinmaine)
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Posts: 53
2018-02-21 11:36:21  

Hear hear,been there,done that.Now my Stormrider has the lightest and best trigger I have ever used.It's even better than I could adjust my M-rod's trigger.I'm not all that handy,and I don't have the abrasives to do the work.The Supersear was the best option for me.But I am grateful for the understanding of what is needed to make the improvments.

    I also installed your FFHD device.It gave me more shots,and it did quiet the gun.Now it doesn't waste all that air .The regulator would be valuable to give me more consistent velocities for my longer range shooting,and further increase the shot count.

    I'm always amazed by all you people who can look at these guns and help us to make them even better.

EricinMaine-

 


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Steve in NC
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2018-02-21 12:11:57  

Thanks, Eric, for your kind reviews of the SuperSear and FFH! 

The Mrod trigger typically rates high among moderately priced airguns, so to say the Super makes the Stormrider trigger compare favorably to this standard is high praise, indeed.   Much appreciated.


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Hector J Medina G
(@hector-j-medina-g)
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2018-02-21 12:31:41  

Thank you all for your kind words. I'll try to answer in one go:

As general comments:

DIANA has had "boots on the ground" at SPA for well over a year. This project is only one of many, specially close to Ron's heart will be the "Bandit" (a pistol version) LOL!, and there will be other projects that will be attractive to different shooters. Not only for FT.

Many of the objections commonly leveled at these guns have already been addressed now in the DIANA branded products; from the specification of the ORings to the fit, finish, and basic quality of materials and workmanship, DIANA's intent is that the products under the brand will be the best a shooter can get within that niche.
DIANA will keep a permanent presence at the SPA plant for inspection and granting of the brand to each and every rifle made under it.
DIANA will also stand behind the product here in the US through the importer of this specific model (Pyramyd Air).

@Ron.- Special thanks to you because your commendation of my writing skills, when they come from a nationally recognized writer and wordsmith, mean a LOT.  Thanks!

The utilization of the same parts for different guns is, as I try to explain, one of the factors in their low cost. It does bring around an attitude of "if it works, just go with it" from the factory technical guys that makes no differentiation between CO2, MSP's, and PCP's. It is an advantage for the consumer because he gets a "basic" engine at very low cost that he can adapt to his/her own personal needs and wants. On the other hand, it does bring the case where no gun is truly "great" for any given endeavour. Sort of "apprentice of everything and master of nothing". This is one of the things that DIANA wants to address.

@ Eric in Maine.- Regulators are adjustable between 100 and 150 BAR's. If you want one, and if your gun is a DIANA branded rifle, send me an EMail to hectorjmedinag  "AT" gmail   "dot"   com . I would start at 100 BAR's (as set from the factory) and test, and I would not go higher than 120 BAR's, specially with the heavy pellets you use. But again, we are ALL breaking ground here, so we all need to experiment a little.

@ Cameron.- Thanks Cameron! With the regulator, you can actually charge the gun with up to 220 BAR's, those 20 additional BAR's are a great help when it comes to shot count and consistency. Yes I am planning on making several posts about these carbines, as I see a lot of applications. One of them is in 3P airgun youth programs (that is a 5.5 ft-lbs game).  Though most reviewers have already established the accuracy potential for these guns, I know that people want to see what other people do. Best regards to the wife and hope I see you BEFORE the World's! LOL!

@ Steve in NC.- Serious EMail sent. DIANA is VERY serious about making the guns the best they can be OoTB within the market niche (and that means a price bracket), and in that sense, you need to think that adding $25 to a $200 gun is raising the cost by more than 10% we'll get REALLY serious later, for the time being what is important is that the door is open and the challenge is there. We are aware that it will be an evolutionary process, perhaps not dissimilar to the different versions of the CZ200 that are now available. Though we have different design philosophies, I do commend you on your ingenuity of the "SuperSear".  Please study the EMail and let me know your thoughts.

Again, thanks to all for reading, Keep well and shoot straight!

 

 

HM


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Steve in NC
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2018-02-21 16:31:10  

Response to your email has been sent.  Thanks for the invitation to do so.


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travelbike
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2018-02-22 15:48:22  

Hec:

Very good article on the Chinese PCP.  How's the accuracy of the Stormrider after you tuned it ?  You think it's good enough for World Field Target accuracy ?

I have the .22 CO2 version of this rifle.  Using a dummy Co2 Cartridge, a coiled hose and a Ninja tank regulated at 1100 psi, it's how HPA.  Never really tuned the rifle.  I use it as a farm gun.  Every morning I put it out the door waiting for pest squirrels or Quail for dinner.  In its present form,  it is hunting accurate. I can take small game confidently up to 55 yards if target is the size of squirrel.

Again thanks for any feedback. 


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Hector J Medina G
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2018-02-22 17:00:39  

We've been having some peculiar weather here in Maryland. Winds of around 12 mph with gusts closer to 25.

I tried to do some testing yesterday but the best I could do was about 3/4" for 10 shots at 35 yards. So, no, not really WFTC's material, but darned good hunting carbine.

I tried two scopes; the first was an old externally adjustable Weaver:

Worked well optically and mechanically at 55 yards, but was a headache at any closer range. I think I will get it reparallaxed.

Then I tried a now discontinued Vortex Crossbow scope. I use these scopes a lot in my 430 Stutzens and I love the reticle. Plenty of aimpoints for hunting at extended ranges, they were parallax free at 35 yards from the factory.

Alas, the weather did not cooperate.But I will keep on trying.

Thanks for reading!

 

 

 

 

HM

 

 


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Steve in NC
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2018-02-25 20:01:51  

Alright!

Thanks to you Hector, maybe soon there will be something usefully unique about Diana's rebadging of SPA PCPs besides their stencil on the receiver!

temp


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Steve in NC
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2018-03-04 12:18:12  

Regarding the distinction between "absolute" and "vented" regulators...

Are you familiar with a design stratagem for vented regulators that does away with the need to drill a vent hole in the airtube, making them just as easy and safe to install as the absolute type, and thus renders said distinction essentially academic?


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TwiceHorn
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2018-03-04 22:46:43  

Good to hear that Diana has "boots on the ground."  It remains fascinating to me that Chinese factories, engineers, and workers can produce some of the very best things (Apple products, for example, among many others), while "guided" by Western quality control (or staggering reject rates, not sure which, or both).  Yet, they seem to be slow to internalize whatever lessons are learned for articles produced under their own auspices.


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Hector J Medina G
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2018-03-05 12:53:57  
Posted by: Steve in NC

Regarding the distinction between "absolute" and "vented" regulators...

Are you familiar with a design stratagem for vented regulators that does away with the need to drill a vent hole in the airtube, making them just as easy and safe to install as the absolute type, and thus renders said distinction essentially academic?

Hello Steve!

What Altaros did was to design, essentially, ONE regulator, the vented one does NOT need a hole in the tank to vent. BUT, the distinction here is not so much technical as it is legal.

Let's take two neighbouring countries:

In Germany, if you "add or substract metal from a weapon" without the appropriate license and certification, you can get into DEEP trouble. You may not if you work only in YOUR guns, but if you have an accident of any kind that involves hurting anyone other than yourself, it can get VERY hairy. This is a show of how powerful the gunmaking and gunsmithing guilds have been since the middle ages, but it is also the result of a focus on the general welfare of everyone.

In Holland, to the contrary, an airgun is not considered a "weapon" so you can do modifications to your heart's content without any legal danger lurking there that might turn a simple accident into a full-fledged disaster.

So, that is the ONE of the reasons for the two "presentations" of the regulator.

Another reason is that while the vented regulator DOES give improved performance, it DOES need a complete disassembly of the action from the valving mechanism (the valve itself does NOT need any disassembly, as opposed to other models on the market nowadays).
Installing a non-vented regulator is a 15 mins operation, and each time you need to adjust the regulator pressure all it takes is the complete deflation of the carbine, disassembly of the pressure tube charging end and the adjustment to be made, then back to inflate and test the pressure. Since each rifle is unique, the rifle's manometer is enough to get to the desired performance point very easily once you have tested the unregulated carbine thoroughly and note where you want to operate.

Adjusting a vented regulator is a little more complicated...

Another reason to have both presentations is that while the carbine behaves VERY well with either regulator in 0.177", 0.20", and 0.22" when you take the design to the 0.25" the non-vented regulator hits a performance wall. It is basically due to the carbine's architecture. A vented one (factory or gunsmith installled) DOES provide very adequate performance (15 shots at 35 ft-lbs with a SD of less than 1% on the ME). But without the design characteristics of the vented version, the carbines can only yield 27 ft-lbs (22 shots with a SD of less than ½% on the ME)

Last one is that servicing a vented regulator is possible, servicing a non-vented regulator can only be done at the factory.

So, between all those different requirements and restrictions, we decided to go ahead and do both.

Hope this is clearer now.

Keep well and shoot straight!

 

HM


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Hector J Medina G
(@hector-j-medina-g)
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2018-03-05 13:01:18  
Posted by: TwiceHorn

Good to hear that Diana has "boots on the ground."  It remains fascinating to me that Chinese factories, engineers, and workers can produce some of the very best things (Apple products, for example, among many others), while "guided" by Western quality control (or staggering reject rates, not sure which, or both).  Yet, they seem to be slow to internalize whatever lessons are learned for articles produced under their own auspices.

It may seem strange to us because we think in "Western" terms. For us the main market is the USA one, MAYBE some forward thinking companies think of Europe as an another market.

For them, the whole world is their market and they know that there are 6,500 million persons that are less demanding than the 750 million that make up the highly developed world.

What gets "rejected" for  one brand/market is perfectly usable for other markets.

I think we should be less proud and learn a few things from them.

JMHO

 

 

HM


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TwiceHorn
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2018-03-05 18:39:25  

Perhaps so.  I tend to think of quality as fairly universal.  Sure, it doesn't need to be "Apple" quality, but it probably needs to be better than a B3, to use a couple of examples, whether the market is Peoria or Pnomh Penh.


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